Get Home Power
 

On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 01:33:33 GMT, Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Smithers wrote:

Harry,
Let me get this straight. You are too scared to discuss your "Get
Home Power", but I am the coward, a liar, and a weasel?

You're really trying, eh?
Is there any reason to engage you in any sort of conversation here?

Yeah, you're a coward. Almost every post of yours in this newsgroup is
your attempt to insult someone, and you don't have the balls to post
with your real name or to introduce yourself with your real name at a
lunch meeting you were trying to set up.

Hmmm. Kevin Noble/atl_man/basskisser, whatever...does this sound familiar?

You're a coward, hiding behind your the skirts of your fake ID here.
Amd for good reason. Anyone who posted here what you post here and used
a real name would get finally offend "the wrong person" and end up
getting punched in the nose.


Kevin?


You don't have the balls to post here with your real name and behave as
you do. You don't even have the balls to introduce yourself with your
real name at a meeting you wanted.

Kevin?


You are a pusillanimous pussy.


Kevin!

I think he meant pussywillowish.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

Get Home Power
 

The salmon guys like that setup also, lets them troll at just a couple
of knots or so....Yes the hydrogen does pose some explosive issues, for
sure... But then again the Coast Guard, of all orgs., was on board with
putting catalytic converters on boats...Yikes!

Get Home Power
 

Harry,

So you would like to meet for lunch. Good, I look forward to it.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Smithers wrote:
Dan,
I think Harry is upset because I offered to meet him for lunch, and sit
across the table from him. I wanted to see if Harry is as weak as I
imagine him to be.

Unfortunately, Harry is too weak and cowardly to even meet for lunch. I
can understand why.



You're lying again, pussy.


--
No Child Left Behind: There are always jobs in the military.

Get Home Power
 

On 15 Dec 2005 21:44:36 -0800, "markvictor"
wrote:

But in a single engine config. such as in many
trawlers,etc.,there are some inherent problems with a wing engine
configuration, most notable is the tendency to yaw excessively making
navigating tedious at best

======================================

Any good autopilot can deal with that without too much difficulty.
Most of the long range cruisers that really need get home power will
already be heavy displacement with a decent keel however. We met some
people this summer with a Skookum 53 LRC that had a small wing engine
on its own off center shaft with a feathering prop. That boat had a
range under power of over 5,000 miles and they were in transit to
South America when we met them. No one really needs get home power in
a coastal cruiser unless you are allergic to yellow boats or poorly
maintained.

Get Home Power
 

"Wayne.B" wrote:

No one really needs get home power in a coastal cruiser unless you are
allergic to yellow boats or poorly maintained.

That is just plain foolish and untrue. Any single stinkpot can benefit
from a 'get home' option. As technology advances this feature will
become ever more popular.

--
Skipper

Get Home Power
 

What kind of get home option do you have for your stinkpots/s, Skipper? I
would love to read about your personal experiences with them.
JIM
"Skipper" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote:

No one really needs get home power in a coastal cruiser unless you are
allergic to yellow boats or poorly maintained.

That is just plain foolish and untrue. Any single stinkpot can benefit
from a 'get home' option. As technology advances this feature will
become ever more popular.

--
Skipper

Get Home Power
 

Yhat's true, as long as you can maintain the capability to keep ahead
of the demand on your batteries....

Get Home Power
 

Smithers wrote:

Dan,
I think Harry is upset because I offered to meet him for lunch, and sit
across the table from him. I wanted to see if Harry is as weak as I imagine
him to be.

Unfortunately, Harry is too weak and cowardly to even meet for lunch. I can
understand why.


"Dan Krueger" wrote in message
k.net...

Harry Krause wrote:


Smithers wrote:


Harry,
Let me get this straight. You are too scared to discuss your "Get Home
Power", but I am the coward, a liar, and a weasel?


You're really trying, eh?
Is there any reason to engage you in any sort of conversation here?

Yeah, you're a coward. Almost every post of yours in this newsgroup is
your attempt to insult someone, and you don't have the balls to post with
your real name or to introduce yourself with your real name at a lunch
meeting you were trying to set up.

Hmmm. Kevin Noble/atl_man/basskisser, whatever...does this sound
familiar?

You're a coward, hiding behind your the skirts of your fake ID here.
Amd for good reason. Anyone who posted here what you post here and used a
real name would get finally offend "the wrong person" and end up getting
punched in the nose.


Kevin?



You don't have the balls to post here with your real name and behave as
you do. You don't even have the balls to introduce yourself with your
real name at a meeting you wanted.

Kevin?


You are a pusillanimous pussy.


Kevin!




My response wasn't directed at Harry. It was just uncanny how he seemed
to be describing Kevin. Not only does Kevin not see how cowardly his
behavior is, he repeatedly posts "I'm not Kevin, insert profanity here
and makes of lame excuses for "borrowing" someones name. I don't see
anythig wrong with "Basskisser, Poco Loco, Smithers", etc but the fact
that he "borrows" a name is just pathetic.

Dan

Get Home Power
 

In this area they are red boats....
I think the allergies are outpaced by people foolish enough to forego
with towing insurance..
That being said, the Channel Islands are a popular destination for
"coastal cruisers" and there can be a 5 or 6 hour response time for
towing depending on conditions, etc. I would be much more comfortable
with some type of backup propulsion as opposed to waiting for
assistance to arrive... My "coastal cruising" sailboat has a 40 hp.
Isuzu diesel auxillary(yes, overkill,factory diesel was 12 hp one
lunger,but it came with the boat) but I still have installed a
swingdown bracket for the outboard from my dighy, there's a lot to be
said for maneuverability in less than desireable situations. Poor
maintanence does not preclude you from hitting a submerged object and
losing your screw, or any of many other maladies that can
occur....having a plan "B" is ALWAYS better than having no backup...And
in addressing coastal cruising, many harbor entrances themselves are
sometimes challenging to transit... mine takes you less than 100 yards
off the beach, and often within yards of the rollers.
A person can easily drown in the surf zone, even with their PFD
on...I've seen it.. would it not be better to have been able to power
out of that situation instead of having the attitude that "I don't need
it, I'm well maintained and I like yellow boats"? Did you happen to
see what happened to the Irving Johnson 30 yards from my harbor's
entrance (it was nationally televised) That was a highly maintained
heavy full keeled vessel, but alas, it was powerless after losing the
main..
Nothing like an accident waiting to happen....

Get Home Power
 

On 18 Dec 2005 18:30:01 -0800, "markvictor"
wrote:

That was a highly maintained
heavy full keeled vessel, but alas, it was powerless after losing the
main..
Nothing like an accident waiting to happen....

==========================================

That was kind of a special situation where they lost power at a
particularly inopportune moment, right at the breakwater entrance as I
recall. It's not clear to me that "get home power" would have saved
them in the split seconds they had available.

By my definition, all sailboats have "get home power". It's called
the wind, and if that fails there's always the anchor or the dinghy.
I've motored 40 footers weighing 20,000 lbs into the dock with a
dinghy and 2 hp outboard strapped along side. It works in calm
conditions, otherwise you anchor and wait it out.

My comment was directed more at single engine power boats in the 25 to
40 foot range since twin engine boats have get home power by
definition. A single engine boat in the 25 to 40 foot range is too
big for an outboard kicker on a stern bracket to be really effective,
and therefore needs a much more expensive inboard solution with
secondary shafts, feathering props, etc. Considering that the expense
of such an installation is likely to be in the $20 to $30K range, a
$120/year SeaTow membership and good maintenance practices are likely
to be much more cost effective. The guys who *really* need get home
power are single engine power boats who are out 20 or more miles from
assistance and beyond SeaTow range.

Get Home Power
 

I agree for the most part,Wayne,And the Johnson incident was really
more to illustrate the hazards near shore....I live about 4 or 5
hundred yards from where they went aground, and I have been awakened by
helicopters trying to save people in the same location,and I've seen
surfers paddling back to the beach with lifeless bodies on their
boards,not to mention untold #s of boats on the beach....and many of
them got to that point from loss of primary power. Truth be told,the
power boats outnumber the sailboats in that predicament 3 or 4 to 1,
but a number of those incidents could possibly been avoided,yet vessel
assist would not have been able to deploy fast enough to be anything
more than a salvage assistant. I have a full draft salboat,but in this
area there is not an optional "anchor out" area to ride out weather by
default, and when its blowing straight down the mouth of the
harbor,sailing is not often a viable get home solution; therefore I
still like having that 15 horse OB on the transom...Granted on a larger
boat it would be ineffective, but on my little 27 footer it does just
fine...Luckily the prevailing winds here are favorable most of the time
and I can sail practically to my slip (and have once or twice) But
I know that it's those times that deviate from the norm that can cause
the biggest problems for someone less than prepared....I like having a
plan B... If you can afford it,Why not?....Also,as I said before,much
of the Channel Islands system is 20 or more miles from assistance...
regards,
markvictor

Get Home Power
 

Twin engine setups do not provide the reundancy they often appear to
provide. Most are supplied with fuel from a single tank and a single
battery bank. If you want true redundancy with twins your fuel tankage and
starting batteries should also be redundant. Stock boats seldom provide
that sort of setup.

Seems to me another necessary item for transiting dangerous entrances is a
stout anchor and rode that can be deployed from the stern by simply cutting
a thin cord to release the anchor. Deprnding upon the situation the rode
can be cleated from a forward or after cleat during transit.

Attempting to get an aux engine running in an emergency can take much longer
than imagined.

Butch
"markvictor" wrote in message
ups.com...

Get Home Power
 

That reminds me of a funny story ...I had a customer call me after an
incident on his boat..he had been drift fishing most of the
day(w/stereo,lights radar,chart etc. all left on, and the battery
switch in the "all" position. As they got close to shore the attempts
to start the motor on dead batteries proved fruitless(go figure)...THe
VHF did no good on 9 volts so in a panic he called the coast guard and
was yelling at them to hurry because he was heading towards the
rocks...after the usual questions (immediate danger,name of vessel
,people on board, PFD's,etc) the person on the line said "sir, have you
deployed your anchor"...The customer answered with an indignant "of
course I did" (as he bent over and loosens the chain wheel) Yhe next
question from the coast guard was..."Sir, is that your anchor chain I
hear in the background?".......Oops!...busted....but I guess he learned
a valuable lesson...
regards,
mark victor

Get Home Power
 

"markvictor" wrote in message
ups.com...
That reminds me of a funny story ...I had a customer call me after an
incident on his boat..he had been drift fishing most of the
day(w/stereo,lights radar,chart etc. all left on, and the battery
switch in the "all" position. As they got close to shore the attempts
to start the motor on dead batteries proved fruitless(go figure)...THe
VHF did no good on 9 volts so in a panic he called the coast guard and
was yelling at them to hurry because he was heading towards the
rocks...after the usual questions (immediate danger,name of vessel
,people on board, PFD's,etc) the person on the line said "sir, have you
deployed your anchor"...The customer answered with an indignant "of
course I did" (as he bent over and loosens the chain wheel) Yhe next
question from the coast guard was..."Sir, is that your anchor chain I
hear in the background?".......Oops!...busted....but I guess he learned
a valuable lesson...
regards,
mark victor


I have only one battery on my modest 20 footer but also have modest
electrical demands. Rather than going to the expense of putting in a
second battery and wiring in an A/B switch I plan to purchase a portable
rechargeable 12 v charger/battery starter in case of emergencies similar to
this: http://store.yahoo.com/sports-imports/pore12poposu.html

Speaking of portable rechargeable 12 v battery chargers............any
recommendations from the group on one that has worked well for them?

Get Home Power
 

Hey Jim,
from the picture It looks to be identical to 1 I picked up a year or
two ago (same switch,guage, cord and clamp stowage, peak rating etc.)
with the exception of color... I have had pretty good luck with it...If
the primary battery is really low it helps to connect it a couple of
minutes before attempting to start, but other than that it'as been a
handy thing to have...It makes a good 12 volt power supply as well...

Get Home Power
 

ref-"called the coast guard"...on a cell phone..

Get Home Power
 

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:40:00 GMT, "Butch Davis"
wrote:

Twin engine setups do not provide the reundancy they often appear to
provide. Most are supplied with fuel from a single tank and a single
battery bank. If you want true redundancy with twins your fuel tankage and
starting batteries should also be redundant. Stock boats seldom provide
that sort of setup.

==========================

I've seen quite a few twins with separate starting batteries, and the
better ones have a parallel solenoid that can be kicked in if one side
is weak. My old Bertram even had a separate parallell solenoid for
the generator in case that battery was low. Are you talking about
twin outboards or inboards?

Get Home Power
 

Wayne,

I was talking about twin inboards but my comments apply to either. I don't
intend to brag but I know a bit about power reliability due to my background
in enhancing power reliability in critical DOD C and C facilities.

The ability to switch between and/or parallel battery banks is extremely
useful. But, two banks are required for redundancy. As I'm a belt and
suspenders kind of guy I run twin Optimas for my small outboard and carry a
12 volt jumper package for additional backup.

Twin tanks are required for true redundancy, also. The best arrangement is
to be able to run both or either engine from either tank using ball valves.
An arrangement drawing is very useful when mounted adjacent to the valve
rail. I also recommend redundant fuel filters for each tank with the
ability to switch between them while the engine is running. With that
arrangement it's possible to continue to a destination in the event you get
a load of bad fuel. Quality filters/separators are the way to go.

Don't for get to carry a spare prop. A couple of weeks ago a fishing buddy
spun a hub shortly after launching. Fortunately we were able to idle back
to the ramp, recover the boat and change the prop.

Bertram, being a very high quality boat, IMO, is constructed in a very high
quality manner with the proper systems for safe offshore use.

Butch
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:40:00 GMT, "Butch Davis"
wrote:

Twin engine setups do not provide the reundancy they often appear to
provide. Most are supplied with fuel from a single tank and a single
battery bank. If you want true redundancy with twins your fuel tankage
and
starting batteries should also be redundant. Stock boats seldom provide
that sort of setup.

==========================

I've seen quite a few twins with separate starting batteries, and the
better ones have a parallel solenoid that can be kicked in if one side
is weak. My old Bertram even had a separate parallell solenoid for
the generator in case that battery was low. Are you talking about
twin outboards or inboards?

Get Home Power
 

And on a diesel rig the same plumbing is necessary on the fuel return
system as well to prevent overfilling any one tank and pumping fuel
overboard via a tank vent. In fact some fuel injected gas applications
return fuel to the tank(this is the exception),although most reciculate
fuel at the engine,it is worth verifying before doing any plumbing,,,,
Hey Butch,what do you think of those optimas? I've had good luck with
them myself...
regards,
markvictor

Get Home Power
 

Mark,

Excellent points on the diesel fuel return lines, thanks.

So far so good on the optimas. I've had them for less than a year but my
expectations are high.

Butch
"markvictor" wrote in message
oups.com...
And on a diesel rig the same plumbing is necessary on the fuel return
system as well to prevent overfilling any one tank and pumping fuel
overboard via a tank vent. In fact some fuel injected gas applications
return fuel to the tank(this is the exception),although most reciculate
fuel at the engine,it is worth verifying before doing any plumbing,,,,
Hey Butch,what do you think of those optimas? I've had good luck with
them myself...
regards,
markvictor

Get Home Power
 

hey Butch,
My first experience with the optimas sold me..I was given two
yellow-tops that had been taken out of an RV that was being sold. They
were dead, so I put a charge on them, and they sat on the ground next
to my shed for 9 or 10 mos. One day I decided to wire up some 12 v.
flourescenrt lights in the shed, I connected a charger but they didn't
pull any amps,Imagine my surprise when my voltmeter showed 12.7
volts..I used them for a couple of mos., then donated them to a friend
with a motorhome in need of house batteries...Last I knew he was still
using them...They seem well suited to the marine apps. due to their
construction, they are not likely to experience the plate breakage from
the bouncing around that can sometimes happen to standard wet cells.
They work for me, anyway...
regards,
markvictor

Get Home Power
 

hey Butch,
My first experience with the optimas sold me..I was given two
yellow-tops that had been taken out of an RV that was being sold. They
were dead, so I put a charge on them, and they sat on the ground next
to my shed for 9 or 10 mos. One day I decided to wire up some 12 v.
flourescenrt lights in the shed, I connected a charger but they didn't
pull any amps,Imagine my surprise when my voltmeter showed 12.7
volts..I used them for a couple of mos., then donated them to a friend
with a motorhome in need of house batteries...Last I knew he was still
using them...They seem well suited to the marine apps. due to their
construction, they are not likely to experience the plate breakage from
the bouncing around that can sometimes happen to standard wet cells.
They work for me, anyway...
regards,
markvictor

Get Home Power
 

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 14:50:17 GMT, "Butch Davis"
wrote:

The ability to switch between and/or parallel battery banks is extremely
useful. But, two banks are required for redundancy. As I'm a belt and
suspenders kind of guy I run twin Optimas for my small outboard and carry a
12 volt jumper package for additional backup.

========================================

Be careful with the jumper cables. I know a guy who started a nasty
electrical fire on his sailboat by getting something crossed up in the
heat of battle. I'd much rather have a paralleling solenoid, no
sparks, no mistakes.

Get Home Power
 

Wayne,

I agree that jumper cables can be dangerous if not used properly. The worst
example I've seen was when attempting to start a 24 volt equipped bulldozer.
In our shop we had a jumping cart with four large 12 volt batteries set up
to provide 24 volts of starting power.

When the mechanic was hooking up the cart batteries the four bulldozer
starting batteries exploded. Made a hell of a mess. Luck was with the
mechanic and he was wearing safety goggles per the shop SOP. Got him under
the shower and he was uninjured.

My jumper battery pack is designed to be hooked up while at zero potential.
When ready to start the outboard the battery pack must be switched on. As
my batteries are in the center console I can turn the pack switch on from
the helm.

Like anything else in boating it's useful to exercise care when jump
starting.

Of course my dual battery setup includes the 1, 2, Off, Both switch. But,
I've seen two dead batteries on boats with the same switch. Murphy don't
you know?

Butch
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 14:50:17 GMT, "Butch Davis"
wrote:

The ability to switch between and/or parallel battery banks is extremely
useful. But, two banks are required for redundancy. As I'm a belt and
suspenders kind of guy I run twin Optimas for my small outboard and carry
a
12 volt jumper package for additional backup.

========================================

Be careful with the jumper cables. I know a guy who started a nasty
electrical fire on his sailboat by getting something crossed up in the
heat of battle. I'd much rather have a paralleling solenoid, no
sparks, no mistakes.

Get Home Power
 

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:07:44 GMT, "Butch Davis"
wrote:

Like anything else in boating it's useful to exercise care when jump
starting.

====================

Always. I think the problems and potential for mistakes tend to be
magnified on boats because of the conditions - frequently cramped,
rolling, spray flying, etc. I find that anything I can do to simplify
operation and avoid mistakes pays off in the long run.

How 'bout it Krause?
 

IMHO: Why don't you guys just "Give It A Rest" already. Geez Louise!!!!

WGASA!

He makes the newsgroup more colorful. ;-) As do all of the Left and Right
Wingers in here.
Hey, I guess that makes us all a bunch of "Wingers"




Fredo

"William Bruce" wrote in message
. ..
Hey Krause, my offer stands: Prove to the "reasonable man" standard that
(1) you have a degree from Yale, (2) your wife is a medical doctor, and
(3) that you own a lobster boat and I'll overnight a $10,000.00 check to
the charity of your choice in your name.

How 'bout it?

William