Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

Doug Kanter wrote:

So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

How long is the barrel on your gun?

Three inch barrel.

--
Skipper

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

"Skipper" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:

So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

How long is the barrel on your gun?

Three inch barrel.

--
Skipper

..357 magnum rounds do not achieve proper velocity with less than a 6 inch
barrel. The result is that hollow points will not expand properly, per
manufacturers' tests. This is why police departments abandoned them many
years ago. Hollow points were behaving like ball ammo and passing right
through perps, doing no more damage than smaller rounds. Perps were still
able to leave, or act nasty.

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Skipper wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:

I've fitted Crimson Trace Laser grips to my S/W .357 magnum on the
theory that once the perp realizes there is a bright red dot moving
about the middle of his chest a motivation change will result. Thus, no
need to pull the trigger...the ultimate *defensive* weapon.

When did you get a pardon? Ex-felons aren't usually allowed ownership of
handguns. Even wheel guns.

So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

--
Skipper

I'd take a Glock 34 any day over that wheelgun. Fully legal mag on the
Glock holds 17 rounds, standard barrel is 5" long, and if you need them,
lasergrips are available. Oh, and my guess is the semi-auto mechanism is
inherently more accurate than the wheelgun's.

You have a single or double action wheelgun? If double, you keep a chamber
empty for safety's sake? If so, that means the G34 mag holds more than
three times the number of rounds.

You've got it backwards. Single action guns are more likely to be a problem
with the hammer closed on a loaded chamber. And, unless his gun is ancient,
it has a transfer bar.

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

"Skipper" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote:

I've fitted Crimson Trace Laser grips to my S/W .357 magnum on the
theory that once the perp realizes there is a bright red dot moving
about the middle of his chest a motivation change will result. Thus, no
need to pull the trigger...the ultimate *defensive* weapon.

When did you get a pardon? Ex-felons aren't usually allowed ownership of
handguns. Even wheel guns.

So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

I'd take the Glock 18C.

33 rounds in a second a half.

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Skipper wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:

I've fitted Crimson Trace Laser grips to my S/W .357 magnum on the
theory that once the perp realizes there is a bright red dot moving
about the middle of his chest a motivation change will result. Thus,
no
need to pull the trigger...the ultimate *defensive* weapon.
When did you get a pardon? Ex-felons aren't usually allowed ownership
of
handguns. Even wheel guns.
So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

--
Skipper
I'd take a Glock 34 any day over that wheelgun. Fully legal mag on the
Glock holds 17 rounds, standard barrel is 5" long, and if you need them,
lasergrips are available. Oh, and my guess is the semi-auto mechanism is
inherently more accurate than the wheelgun's.

You have a single or double action wheelgun? If double, you keep a
chamber empty for safety's sake? If so, that means the G34 mag holds
more than three times the number of rounds.

You've got it backwards. Single action guns are more likely to be a
problem with the hammer closed on a loaded chamber. And, unless his gun
is ancient, it has a transfer bar.
The single-action Ruger wheelgun I sometimes shoot has a transfer bar. In
fact, I believe all Ruger single-actions these days have transfer bars.

The new Ruger single action guns have the transfer bar. And, the instruction
manuals for new Ruger products all contain a outer cover which says that if
you return certain older guns to them, they'll install a modification at no
charge to the gun passes the Massachusetts "drop test". They cover all costs
except shipping the gun to them.

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

Harry Krause wrote:

So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

I'd take a Glock 34 any day over that wheelgun. Fully legal mag on the
Glock holds 17 rounds, standard barrel is 5" long, and if you need them,
lasergrips are available. Oh, and my guess is the semi-auto mechanism is
inherently more accurate than the wheelgun's.

You have a single or double action wheelgun? If double, you keep a
chamber empty for safety's sake? If so, that means the G34 mag holds
more than three times the number of rounds.

Any auto is inherently dangerous for the occasional user *particularly*
in a stressful situation. The double action is much safer. Further, the
persuasive nature of the laser cannot be underestimated to defuse the
situation. The better *defensive* weapon is the S&W.

--
Skipper

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

NOYB wrote:

So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

I'd take the Glock 18C.

33 rounds in a second a half.

Is your goal to kill or defuse the defensive situation?

--
Skipper

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

Doug Kanter wrote:

So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

How long is the barrel on your gun?

Three inch barrel.

.357 magnum rounds do not achieve proper velocity with less than a 6 inch
barrel. The result is that hollow points will not expand properly, per
manufacturers' tests. This is why police departments abandoned them many
years ago. Hollow points were behaving like ball ammo and passing right
through perps, doing no more damage than smaller rounds. Perps were still
able to leave, or act nasty.

Do you know if those conclusions would be true if .38 specials were
chambered?

--
Skipper

Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"
 

Don White wrote:


Might be better to take your angle cutter pliers and cut the plug off.

ooops......... meant *diagonal cutters*

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

Harry Krause wrote:

Any auto is inherently dangerous for the occasional user *particularly*
in a stressful situation. The double action is much safer. Further, the
persuasive nature of the laser cannot be underestimated to defuse the
situation. The better *defensive* weapon is the S&W.

Please, Snipper. Stop with the absurdities.

Believe your ignorance is showing, Krause.

--
Skipper

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

Harry Krause wrote:

Skipper wrote:
NOYB wrote:

So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

I'd take the Glock 18C.

33 rounds in a second a half.

Is your goal to kill or defuse the defensive situation?

If you're a civvie pulling a handgun, you better be intent on using it,
not defusing with it.

Wrong. If its kids breaking in to your home and you're in a defensive
position, the laser is the best option. A shame that air cop didn't try
to defuse.

--
Skipper

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

"Skipper" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote:

So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

I'd take a Glock 34 any day over that wheelgun. Fully legal mag on the
Glock holds 17 rounds, standard barrel is 5" long, and if you need them,
lasergrips are available. Oh, and my guess is the semi-auto mechanism is
inherently more accurate than the wheelgun's.

You have a single or double action wheelgun? If double, you keep a
chamber empty for safety's sake? If so, that means the G34 mag holds
more than three times the number of rounds.

Any auto is inherently dangerous for the occasional user *particularly*
in a stressful situation. The double action is much safer. Further, the
persuasive nature of the laser cannot be underestimated to defuse the
situation. The better *defensive* weapon is the S&W.

--
Skipper

Why do you think an auto is more dangerous?

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Skipper wrote:
NOYB wrote:

So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

I'd take the Glock 18C.

33 rounds in a second a half.

Is your goal to kill or defuse the defensive situation?

--
Skipper


If you're a civvie pulling a handgun, you better be intent on using it,
not defusing with it.

"Prepared to go all the way" is correct. Knowing how to NOT go all the way
is preferred. Call your attorney and ask this question:

"God forbid I have to ever use my gun on an intruder in my home, do you have
the name of an attorney I'd need to call afterward?"

I asked mine this question. She gave me the names of three very experienced
criminal attorneys. Even if you are correct in using the gun, even if it was
caught on videotape and the perp had a criminal record as long as your arm,
you'll still be briefly treated like a criminal. Better to avoid it.

Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:


Might be better to take your angle cutter pliers and cut the plug off.

ooops......... meant *diagonal cutters*

Could I use a meat cleaver or pruning shears?

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

Doug Kanter wrote:

Any auto is inherently dangerous for the occasional user *particularly*
in a stressful situation. The double action is much safer. Further, the
persuasive nature of the laser cannot be underestimated to defuse the
situation. The better *defensive* weapon is the S&W.

Why do you think an auto is more dangerous?

Far more likely to fire an unintended round while aimed at the perp.
Both guns can kill, the double action is the safer gun in the hands of a
nervous owner...for obvious reasons. There must be the threat of bodily
harm *before* pulling the trigger.

--
Skipper

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

Doug Kanter wrote:

If you're a civvie pulling a handgun, you better be intent on using it,
not defusing with it.

"Prepared to go all the way" is correct. Knowing how to NOT go all the way
is preferred. Call your attorney and ask this question:

"God forbid I have to ever use my gun on an intruder in my home, do you have
the name of an attorney I'd need to call afterward?"

I asked mine this question. She gave me the names of three very experienced
criminal attorneys. Even if you are correct in using the gun, even if it was
caught on videotape and the perp had a criminal record as long as your arm,
you'll still be briefly treated like a criminal. Better to avoid it.

Well stated! Do you have a law enforcement background?

--
Skipper

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

"Skipper" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:

So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted
with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

How long is the barrel on your gun?

Three inch barrel.

.357 magnum rounds do not achieve proper velocity with less than a 6 inch
barrel. The result is that hollow points will not expand properly, per
manufacturers' tests. This is why police departments abandoned them many
years ago. Hollow points were behaving like ball ammo and passing right
through perps, doing no more damage than smaller rounds. Perps were still
able to leave, or act nasty.

Do you know if those conclusions would be true if .38 specials were
chambered?

--
Skipper

Slightly better.

You and Harry owe it to yourselves to own a copy of "Combat Handgunnery", by
Chuck Taylor. You could share it, or read it to each other. Or, live large
and buy your own copies.

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...

I've never owned a handgun and probably never will.
Just wondering...which style is the most reliable......less chance of
jambing?

It, most likely, would be the one that I own. Single shot, 45 Cal. Zoli.

Jim C.

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

Harry Krause wrote:
Doug Kanter wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

Skipper wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

I've fitted Crimson Trace Laser grips to my S/W .357 magnum on the
theory that once the perp realizes there is a bright red dot moving
about the middle of his chest a motivation change will result.
Thus, no
need to pull the trigger...the ultimate *defensive* weapon.

When did you get a pardon? Ex-felons aren't usually allowed
ownership of
handguns. Even wheel guns.

So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

--
Skipper

I'd take a Glock 34 any day over that wheelgun. Fully legal mag on
the Glock holds 17 rounds, standard barrel is 5" long, and if you
need them, lasergrips are available. Oh, and my guess is the
semi-auto mechanism is inherently more accurate than the wheelgun's.

You have a single or double action wheelgun? If double, you keep a
chamber empty for safety's sake? If so, that means the G34 mag holds
more than three times the number of rounds.


You've got it backwards. Single action guns are more likely to be a
problem with the hammer closed on a loaded chamber. And, unless his
gun is ancient, it has a transfer bar.

The single-action Ruger wheelgun I sometimes shoot has a transfer bar.
In fact, I believe all Ruger single-actions these days have transfer bars.

I'd still prefer a G34 for "defense" over that snubby wheelgun. Fast,
accurate, light, 5" barrel, hardly any slap, 17-round mags with the
ability to slap a fresh, loaded mag in far faster than you can reload a
wheel gun.


I've never owned a handgun and probably never will.
Just wondering...which style is the most reliable......less chance of
jambing?

Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"
 

Wow, Harry, you really seem to be great at everything you do.

I am impressed.

Not only are you great at everything you do, but your health is perfect.
Are you still 165 lbs?
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 13:00:53 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

*JimH* wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 09:26:50 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Don White wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
Bert Robbins wrote:

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..

It means they were properly trained to handle and use firearms.

One shot, one kill.
I had heard on the news today that there were many shots fired.
Does that
mean that several people were killed that we don't know about?
It means that when you fire your weapon you hit what you are
aiming at.

If six guys aimed at the same person then that person should have
six bullets in him.


Something you learned from your years of weekend warrior combat
experience guarding the loo, Bertie?

Bert would have lobbed half a dozen artillery shells at the
hapless victim...from a safe distance of course.
I have a feeling Bert would need a half dozen boxes of ammo to hit
the side of a barn. Accuracy with firearms requires regular
practice. I go to one of three ranges at least once a month,
year-around. Most of the cops I see at the ranges are there about
every other week. I've asked them about that. It's fun to shoot with
cops, because they sometimes have "unusual" guns with them, and
they'll let you pop off a few rounds if they recognize you and you
ask.
LOL!

What a joke!

--

You planning to meet me at the Gilbert range near you, to show off
your military prowess with a handgun, Herring?

I also go out to the Blue Ridge facility in Chantilly. I've not seen
you there, either. Or at the MSAR.

I suspect what you shoot off these days is...your mouth.
You are proud of your guns, rifles and shotguns, and rightfully so.
You stated you will use them to protect you and your wife against an
intruder, perhaps whose sole intention is only to steal your super fast
computer.

Yet air marshals who are assigned to protect us should not use their
guns when confronting a suicide bomber.

Interesting.


A. I believe in home defense.

B. I would only shoot an intruder whom I perceived to
be a physical threat.

C. The dead guy was not a suicide bomber. Or any other kind of bomber.

D. I suspect Herring, with his vision, would not be able to hit a
man-sized target with a handgun from 25 yards.

Not on the first shot, but I've learned how to adjust. Of course, I don't
go bragging about what I
shoot, how well I shoot, where I shoot, and with whom I shoot.

--

Gosharoonie. I can hit a small pie-plate sized target at 25 yards with a
semi-auto handgun the first shot and almost every shot, if I concentrate,
and you have to adjust to hit a "man-sized" target?

I suspect you don't "shoot" at all, with a handgun or otherwise.

Is your bad aim another reason why we lost in Vietnam?




--
January 20th, 2009: Hang in there, America!

Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"
 

Harry,
Do you still have me filtered or unfiltered?


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
Lord Reginald Smithers wrote:
Bill,
Harry is not anti-handgun, he likes to shot handguns. He just doesn't
want anyone else to own a handgun.


..or at least, none of the gun happy righties.


Is Smitherscum still claiming I own handguns?


--
Alternative energy: New locations to drill for gas and oil.

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote:
Doug Kanter wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

Skipper wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

I've fitted Crimson Trace Laser grips to my S/W .357 magnum on the
theory that once the perp realizes there is a bright red dot moving
about the middle of his chest a motivation change will result. Thus,
no
need to pull the trigger...the ultimate *defensive* weapon.

When did you get a pardon? Ex-felons aren't usually allowed ownership
of
handguns. Even wheel guns.

So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted
with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

--
Skipper

I'd take a Glock 34 any day over that wheelgun. Fully legal mag on the
Glock holds 17 rounds, standard barrel is 5" long, and if you need
them, lasergrips are available. Oh, and my guess is the semi-auto
mechanism is inherently more accurate than the wheelgun's.

You have a single or double action wheelgun? If double, you keep a
chamber empty for safety's sake? If so, that means the G34 mag holds
more than three times the number of rounds.


You've got it backwards. Single action guns are more likely to be a
problem with the hammer closed on a loaded chamber. And, unless his gun
is ancient, it has a transfer bar.

The single-action Ruger wheelgun I sometimes shoot has a transfer bar. In
fact, I believe all Ruger single-actions these days have transfer bars.

I'd still prefer a G34 for "defense" over that snubby wheelgun. Fast,
accurate, light, 5" barrel, hardly any slap, 17-round mags with the
ability to slap a fresh, loaded mag in far faster than you can reload a
wheel gun.


I've never owned a handgun and probably never will.
Just wondering...which style is the most reliable......less chance of
jambing?

Revolvers fail mostly when you get a bad round of ammunition whose primer
fails to make a spark. I've never seen this. If it happens, you just pull
the trigger again. The bad round moves out of battery, bringing in another
one. With a semi-auto, the most likely problem is when the spent shell
doesn't eject. This keeps the slide from cycling, and the next round doesn't
come up from the magazine. This can happen due to poor design, or more
likely, "limp-wristing" - not holding the gun firmly enough. This bad habit
is so easy to demonstrate that it usually just takes one instance of it for
a shooter to correct the mistake.

Some semi-autos will misbehave with certain brands of ammo. So, you figure
this out during practice and don't buy that ammo any more.

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

Don White wrote:

I've never owned a handgun and probably never will.
Just wondering...which style is the most reliable......less chance of
jambing?

The revolver is more dependable, but only slightly better with the new
auto actions. I've blown up a P-38 Walther. I've never had that unhappy
experience with a double or single action, black or smokeless powder
pistol. Shotguns are another matter, weak pin springs can cause constant
jams.

--
Skipper

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

Harry,
It is interesting to note that while Skipper is recommending use a gun with
a laser weapon so he does not have to shot the perp. Harry recommends a gun
that will allow him to easily place multiple bullets into the perp.

Harry, after you shot him with the 17 rounds, I recommend you bring him
outside and run him over with the truck.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Skipper wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:

So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

I'd take a Glock 34 any day over that wheelgun. Fully legal mag on the
Glock holds 17 rounds, standard barrel is 5" long, and if you need them,
lasergrips are available. Oh, and my guess is the semi-auto mechanism is
inherently more accurate than the wheelgun's.

You have a single or double action wheelgun? If double, you keep a
chamber empty for safety's sake? If so, that means the G34 mag holds
more than three times the number of rounds.

Any auto is inherently dangerous for the occasional user *particularly*
in a stressful situation. The double action is much safer. Further, the
persuasive nature of the laser cannot be underestimated to defuse the
situation. The better *defensive* weapon is the S&W.

--
Skipper

Please, Snipper. Stop with the absurdities.



--
GOP Credo: Just pretend it's all ok.

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

"Skipper" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:

Any auto is inherently dangerous for the occasional user *particularly*
in a stressful situation. The double action is much safer. Further, the
persuasive nature of the laser cannot be underestimated to defuse the
situation. The better *defensive* weapon is the S&W.

Why do you think an auto is more dangerous?

Far more likely to fire an unintended round while aimed at the perp.
Both guns can kill, the double action is the safer gun in the hands of a
nervous owner...for obvious reasons. There must be the threat of bodily
harm *before* pulling the trigger.

--
Skipper

Think about what you just said. "Far more likely to fire an unintended
round..."

If you have a 6 shot revolver with 6 rounds loaded, it is ready to fire if
you pull the trigger. Unless it's one of the newer ones with a built-in key
lock, there is no safety. YOU are the safety.

I use a 40 cal. Kahr. I usually don't carry with one in the chamber, but
sometimes I do. There is no safety on this gun. If there's a round in the
chamber, the gun is precisely as safe or dangerous as yours. You may claim
that because yours has an external hammer, which is heavier, there's a more
tactile warning when the trigger is gradually pulled, but that would be
wrong.

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

"Skipper" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:

If you're a civvie pulling a handgun, you better be intent on using it,
not defusing with it.

"Prepared to go all the way" is correct. Knowing how to NOT go all the
way
is preferred. Call your attorney and ask this question:

"God forbid I have to ever use my gun on an intruder in my home, do you
have
the name of an attorney I'd need to call afterward?"

I asked mine this question. She gave me the names of three very
experienced
criminal attorneys. Even if you are correct in using the gun, even if it
was
caught on videotape and the perp had a criminal record as long as your
arm,
you'll still be briefly treated like a criminal. Better to avoid it.

Well stated! Do you have a law enforcement background?

No. You may have heard that there are 118 people in this country who still
know where to find the library. I'm one of them. I read.

Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"
 

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

Don White wrote:


Might be better to take your angle cutter pliers and cut the plug off.

ooops......... meant *diagonal cutters*


Could I use a meat cleaver or pruning shears?


I would say...if you came screaming into the room with the meat cleaver
over your head..and dashed for the tv cutting the plug off in one fell
swoop...that would be as impressive to your son as using a gun.
Just make sure your blinds are drawn. The neighbours might not understand.

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

Harry Krause wrote:

Why do you think an auto is more dangerous?

Far more likely to fire an unintended round while aimed at the perp.
Both guns can kill, the double action is the safer gun in the hands of a
nervous owner...for obvious reasons. There must be the threat of bodily
harm *before* pulling the trigger.

The rule is, keep your finger off the trigger unless and until you plan
on firing a gun. If you follow that rule, you will not be firing off an
"unintended" round. Period.

I'd bet most folks would *not* remember to hold their finger off the
trigger if surprised by a sudden breakin. That finger *will* be on the
trigger.

If some clown breaks into my house at night, he's likely going to get
shot with a 12-gauge. Period. The local sheriff and prosecutor have both
told me personally that they would NOT prosecute a resident who shoots a
perp breaking into their home.

And you will most likely end up jailed, as you should be.

Your depending on a stupid laser light is going to get you killed. With
any luck at all.

I'm not "depending" on the laser. It's a persuader only. Tests have
shown it to be very effective in defusing bad situations until proper
authorities arrive.

--
Skipper

Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

Don White wrote:


Might be better to take your angle cutter pliers and cut the plug off.

ooops......... meant *diagonal cutters*


Could I use a meat cleaver or pruning shears?
I would say...if you came screaming into the room with the meat cleaver
over your head..and dashed for the tv cutting the plug off in one fell
swoop...that would be as impressive to your son as using a gun.
Just make sure your blinds are drawn. The neighbours might not
understand.

Sounds better the more I think about it.

About 6 years ago, my son hit me in the cohones with a hardball during
pitching practice and I ripped him a new asshole, as was appropriate. He
learned some new words that day. I felt terrible, though, and a few days
later, I was discussing it with some friends over beer. My friend Mike made
an interesting observation based on his experiences in his enormous extended
family. When things get bad with a kid, mothers will *usually* ramp up the
response slowly, from calmly correcting the kid, through various levels, and
finally blowing up. Fathers usually go from calm to "holy ****" much faster.
I think this is true, and it's not a problem. Kids should know that in a
previous life, their fathers were cave men, and might react in "interesting"
ways. Not violent toward the kids, but interesting.

I think my son learned well. Three years ago, we were at a boat launch in
the Adirondacks. The boat was out of the water, I was securing things, and
he was mindlessly staring at the sky or some chick in a bikini, when I saw
two pit bulls running toward him. The gun was out of the holster instantly,
I yelled to the owner to stop the dogs, and he did. If those dogs had come
within 20 feet of my son, they would've been dropped, followed closely by
their owner sucking on the barrel until the police arrived. My son flipped
out at the idea that I was ready to kill the dogs. But, as I explained,
there was no other possible option, other than wait and see if they were
vicious. It took him a couple of days to see the logic, but he finally did.

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

"Skipper" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote:

Why do you think an auto is more dangerous?

Far more likely to fire an unintended round while aimed at the perp.
Both guns can kill, the double action is the safer gun in the hands of a
nervous owner...for obvious reasons. There must be the threat of bodily
harm *before* pulling the trigger.

The rule is, keep your finger off the trigger unless and until you plan
on firing a gun. If you follow that rule, you will not be firing off an
"unintended" round. Period.

I'd bet most folks would *not* remember to hold their finger off the
trigger if surprised by a sudden breakin. That finger *will* be on the
trigger.

If some clown breaks into my house at night, he's likely going to get
shot with a 12-gauge. Period. The local sheriff and prosecutor have both
told me personally that they would NOT prosecute a resident who shoots a
perp breaking into their home.

And you will most likely end up jailed, as you should be.

Why do you think he'd be jailed? Because he used a shotgun? Or, some other
reason?

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:19:07 -0600, Skipper wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

I've fitted Crimson Trace Laser grips to my S/W .357 magnum on the
theory that once the perp realizes there is a bright red dot moving
about the middle of his chest a motivation change will result. Thus, no
need to pull the trigger...the ultimate *defensive* weapon.

When did you get a pardon? Ex-felons aren't usually allowed ownership of
handguns. Even wheel guns.

So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

.357 mag revolver or a .44 mag revolver.

Simple, effective and never break down.

And loaded with wad cutters with the hollow bottom. With the bullet upside
down. Otherwise you kill some poor neighbor 3 houses away after the bullet
has gone through the intruder and a few walls.

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Skipper wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:

I've fitted Crimson Trace Laser grips to my S/W .357 magnum on the
theory that once the perp realizes there is a bright red dot moving
about the middle of his chest a motivation change will result. Thus, no
need to pull the trigger...the ultimate *defensive* weapon.

When did you get a pardon? Ex-felons aren't usually allowed ownership of
handguns. Even wheel guns.

So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

--
Skipper

I'd take a Glock 34 any day over that wheelgun. Fully legal mag on the
Glock holds 17 rounds, standard barrel is 5" long, and if you need them,
lasergrips are available. Oh, and my guess is the semi-auto mechanism is
inherently more accurate than the wheelgun's.

You have a single or double action wheelgun? If double, you keep a chamber
empty for safety's sake? If so, that means the G34 mag holds more than
three times the number of rounds.




This the same person who would not own a handgun and sent a Glock to the
police for disposal?

Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

Lord Reginald Smithers wrote:

Bill,
Harry is not anti-handgun, he likes to shot handguns. He just doesn't
want anyone else to own a handgun.



..or at least, none of the gun happy righties.


I resent that remark. I own a gun primarily to deal with a situation
which I know is coming soon: I will walk into the living room to discuss
something briefly with my son, who will be in TV coma mode. His only
response will be "Uh huh.....OK". You've seen this - you know the
teenager has absolutely no idea what you just said. I will then hand him
the shooting glasses and hearing protector things and tell him to put
them on. He'll say "Uh huh" and mindlessly obey. I will then shoot the
TV.

Televisions are so cheap that it would be worth $300 bucks just to see
the look on his face, and get perhaps get a week or three of
attentiveness out of him.

:-)
Might be better to take your angle cutter pliers and cut the plug off.

That would be cheaper, I guess, and not so much cleanup afterward.


But not point making!

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

Harry Krause wrote:


I've fitted Crimson Trace Laser grips to my S/W .357 magnum on the
theory that once the perp realizes there is a bright red dot moving
about the middle of his chest a motivation change will result. Thus, no
need to pull the trigger...the ultimate *defensive* weapon.


When did you get a pardon? Ex-felons aren't usually allowed ownership of
handguns. Even wheel guns.

What's the difference? By "wheel gun" you mean revolver? Felons can't
possess a Ruger 10-22. ANY handgun is also out of the question - as it
should be.

Dan

Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 09:26:50 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Don White wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
Bert Robbins wrote:

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..

It means they were properly trained to handle and use firearms.

One shot, one kill.
I had heard on the news today that there were many shots fired.
Does that
mean that several people were killed that we don't know about?
It means that when you fire your weapon you hit what you are aiming
at.

If six guys aimed at the same person then that person should have
six bullets in him.


Something you learned from your years of weekend warrior combat
experience guarding the loo, Bertie?

Bert would have lobbed half a dozen artillery shells at the hapless
victim...from a safe distance of course.

I have a feeling Bert would need a half dozen boxes of ammo to hit the
side of a barn. Accuracy with firearms requires regular practice. I go
to one of three ranges at least once a month, year-around. Most of the
cops I see at the ranges are there about every other week. I've asked
them about that. It's fun to shoot with cops, because they sometimes
have "unusual" guns with them, and they'll let you pop off a few
rounds if they recognize you and you ask.
LOL!

What a joke!

--


You planning to meet me at the Gilbert range near you, to show off your
military prowess with a handgun, Herring?

I also go out to the Blue Ridge facility in Chantilly. I've not seen you
there, either. Or at the MSAR.

I suspect what you shoot off these days is...your mouth.

This, by a person who is anti-handgun?

I'm not anti-handgun.
I'm anti-any-idiot-who-can-breathe-being-able-to-buy-one.
I used to be totally against private ownership of handguns, but
unlike your president, I am capable of learning and have modified my views
over the years. I am still, however, opposed to private citizens owning
fully auto handguns or rifles.
I prefer shotguns for home defense.
I've shot firearms for fun most of my life, mostly shotguns.



So gun nut lefties are OK.

Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"
 

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:36:10 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 13:00:53 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

*JimH* wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 09:26:50 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Don White wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
Bert Robbins wrote:

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..

It means they were properly trained to handle and use firearms.

One shot, one kill.
I had heard on the news today that there were many shots fired.
Does that
mean that several people were killed that we don't know about?
It means that when you fire your weapon you hit what you are aiming
at.

If six guys aimed at the same person then that person should have six
bullets in him.


Something you learned from your years of weekend warrior combat
experience guarding the loo, Bertie?

Bert would have lobbed half a dozen artillery shells at the hapless
victim...from a safe distance of course.
I have a feeling Bert would need a half dozen boxes of ammo to hit the
side of a barn. Accuracy with firearms requires regular practice. I go
to one of three ranges at least once a month, year-around. Most of the
cops I see at the ranges are there about every other week. I've asked
them about that. It's fun to shoot with cops, because they sometimes
have "unusual" guns with them, and they'll let you pop off a few rounds
if they recognize you and you ask.
LOL!

What a joke!

--

You planning to meet me at the Gilbert range near you, to show off your
military prowess with a handgun, Herring?

I also go out to the Blue Ridge facility in Chantilly. I've not seen you
there, either. Or at the MSAR.

I suspect what you shoot off these days is...your mouth.
You are proud of your guns, rifles and shotguns, and rightfully so. You
stated you will use them to protect you and your wife against an intruder,
perhaps whose sole intention is only to steal your super fast computer.

Yet air marshals who are assigned to protect us should not use their guns
when confronting a suicide bomber.

Interesting.


A. I believe in home defense.

B. I would only shoot an intruder whom I perceived to
be a physical threat.

C. The dead guy was not a suicide bomber. Or any other kind of bomber.

D. I suspect Herring, with his vision, would not be able to hit a
man-sized target with a handgun from 25 yards.

Not on the first shot, but I've learned how to adjust. Of course, I don't go bragging about what I
shoot, how well I shoot, where I shoot, and with whom I shoot.

--

Gosharoonie. I can hit a small pie-plate sized target at 25 yards with a
semi-auto handgun the first shot and almost every shot, if I
concentrate, and you have to adjust to hit a "man-sized" target?

I suspect you don't "shoot" at all, with a handgun or otherwise.

Is your bad aim another reason why we lost in Vietnam?

My bad aim is due to an eyeball that angles up four degrees from where it should. So, when I aim,
I'm actually looking at a different place than the target is. Now, that should be simple to
understand.

I've never said you were anything other than a most excellent shot, probably better than most
military marksmen. I'm sure you'd win medals in any shooting competition you entered.

Face it, Harry, you are the best! Of course, I don't go bragging about what I
shoot, how well I shoot, where I shoot, and with whom I shoot.

--
John H

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Wishing you Peace, Fellowship, and Good Humor as we celebrate the birth of OUR Lord, Jesus Christ on the Christmas Holy Day.

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

Harry Krause wrote:

Skipper wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

I've fitted Crimson Trace Laser grips to my S/W .357 magnum on the
theory that once the perp realizes there is a bright red dot moving
about the middle of his chest a motivation change will result. Thus, no
need to pull the trigger...the ultimate *defensive* weapon.


When did you get a pardon? Ex-felons aren't usually allowed ownership of
handguns. Even wheel guns.


So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

--
Skipper


I'd take a Glock 34 any day over that wheelgun. Fully legal mag on the
Glock holds 17 rounds, standard barrel is 5" long, and if you need them,
lasergrips are available. Oh, and my guess is the semi-auto mechanism is
inherently more accurate than the wheelgun's.

You have a single or double action wheelgun? If double, you keep a
chamber empty for safety's sake? If so, that means the G34 mag holds
more than three times the number of rounds.


How is that 17 round magazine legal? Pre-ban?

I'm not sure how you can say the semi-auto is "inherently" more accurate
than a revolver. A barrel is a barrel. The same bullets pass through them.

Dan

Dan

Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"
 

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 20:44:30 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote:


"Don White" wrote in message
...
Lord Reginald Smithers wrote:
Bill,
Harry is not anti-handgun, he likes to shot handguns. He just doesn't
want anyone else to own a handgun.


..or at least, none of the gun happy righties.

I resent that remark. I own a gun primarily to deal with a situation which I
know is coming soon: I will walk into the living room to discuss something
briefly with my son, who will be in TV coma mode. His only response will be
"Uh huh.....OK". You've seen this - you know the teenager has absolutely no
idea what you just said. I will then hand him the shooting glasses and
hearing protector things and tell him to put them on. He'll say "Uh huh" and
mindlessly obey. I will then shoot the TV.

Televisions are so cheap that it would be worth $300 bucks just to see the
look on his face, and get perhaps get a week or three of attentiveness out
of him.

:-)


I love it!

--
John H

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Wishing you Peace, Fellowship, and Good Humor as we celebrate the birth of OUR Lord, Jesus Christ on the Christmas Holy Day.

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

Skipper wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:


So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?


I'd take a Glock 34 any day over that wheelgun. Fully legal mag on the
Glock holds 17 rounds, standard barrel is 5" long, and if you need them,
lasergrips are available. Oh, and my guess is the semi-auto mechanism is
inherently more accurate than the wheelgun's.


You have a single or double action wheelgun? If double, you keep a
chamber empty for safety's sake? If so, that means the G34 mag holds
more than three times the number of rounds.


Any auto is inherently dangerous for the occasional user *particularly*
in a stressful situation. The double action is much safer. Further, the
persuasive nature of the laser cannot be underestimated to defuse the
situation. The better *defensive* weapon is the S&W.

--
Skipper

Laser sights are worthless in the daytime. They are also worthless for
a gun purchased for personal or home protection. How often do you think
you have the time to draw the weapon, turn on the laser, and fire it?
You mention a "stressful situation". To me that means you have no
time to be pointing red lights.

Laser sights project a tiny dot on the target. Unlike the movies, there
is no fog or smoke to project a beam. It's a dot and the target would
have to see it. By that time you're dead unless you are confronting an
unarmed assailant or someone with a butcher knife who is 100 feet away.

Dan

Better *Defensive* Handgun
 

Skipper wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:


Skipper wrote:

NOYB wrote:


So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?


I'd take the Glock 18C.


33 rounds in a second a half.


Is your goal to kill or defuse the defensive situation?


If you're a civvie pulling a handgun, you better be intent on using it,
not defusing with it.


Wrong. If its kids breaking in to your home and you're in a defensive
position, the laser is the best option. A shame that air cop didn't try
to defuse.

--
Skipper

If the kid is unarmed, what the hell are you doing with a gun in your
hand? Kick his ass and call his parents.

Dan