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basskisser August 4th 03 12:56 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
It had the whiff of parody. Psychologists dissecting the conservative
brain?

A press release from UC Berkeley announced that researchers, culling
50 years of data, had identified psychological patterns common to the
minds of right-wingers. Their findings, published in the American
Psychological Association's Psychological Bulletin, listed these
predictors of conservatism: fear, aggression, dogmatism,
authoritarianism, tolerance of inequality, intolerance of ambiguity,
resistance to change and lack of "integrative complexity" in thought
and speech. Hardly a flattering portrait.

The release pushed further, noting that "disparate conservatives" such
as Hitler, Mussolini, Ronald Reagan and Rush Limbaugh each preached a
return to an idealized past and condoned inequality.

The research is serious scholarship, insist the authors from Stanford,
U.C. Berkeley and the University of Maryland synthesized 88 previously
published samples involving 22,818 participants from 12 countries into
10 "meta-analytic calculations."

The study starts by assuming that people adopt a belief system such as
conservatism partly to satisfy some psychological need. "This does not
mean that conservatism is pathological," the authors hasten to note,
"or that conservative beliefs are necessarily false, irrational or
unprincipled."

As Seinfeld might add, "not that there's anything wrong with that . .
.. ."

The authors also maintain they're not judgmental. Labeling
conservatives" less integratively complex," isn't precisely the same
as saying they're simple- minded. It merely means conservatives aren't
compelled to jump through complex,

intellectual hoops to justify their relatively black-and-white view of
the world.

One of the researchers' methods involved analyzing political speeches
and judicial opinions on the basis of structural complexity.
Conservatives thought and spoke more simply -- hence President Bush's
observation "Look, my job isn't to nuance."

jps August 4th 03 07:43 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
It had the whiff of parody. Psychologists dissecting the conservative
brain?


The authors also maintain they're not judgmental. Labeling
conservatives" less integratively complex," isn't precisely the same
as saying they're simple- minded. It merely means conservatives
aren't compelled to jump through complex, intellectual hoops to
justify their relatively black-and-white view of the world.



Bingo!



Dave Hall August 4th 03 08:24 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
basskisser wrote:

It had the whiff of parody. Psychologists dissecting the conservative
brain?

A press release from UC Berkeley


Here's a REAL objective piece. Right from the heart of the bastion of
liberalism.


announced that researchers, culling
50 years of data, had identified psychological patterns common to the
minds of right-wingers. Their findings, published in the American
Psychological Association's Psychological Bulletin, listed these
predictors of conservatism: fear, aggression, dogmatism,
authoritarianism, tolerance of inequality, intolerance of ambiguity,
resistance to change and Hardly a flattering portrait.


Let's assume for a second, that this is correct. And when taken against the
apparent liberal slant, which would then conversely imply that liberals are the
opposite of conservatives, and let's look at these elements:

Fear. No, not fear, respect. Respect is something that liberals know little of.
Indeed many long standing traditions and institutions are all comoing under
criticism by liberals, who do not understand the need for honoring traditions.
Liberals seemingly have forgotten the lessons of history, for which many of these
traditions have emerged, and instead are hell bent on reliving these lessons again.

Aggression. Hmmm. There's nothing more aggressive than a "liberal with a cause", even
if they cannot tell you the specifics of why they are protesting, or offer up any
counterpoints or alternative solutions.

Dogmatism. It's helpful to once again point out that since liberals do not respect
time honored institutions such as religion, they consider those who do, and their faith,
as "dogmatic". Indeed, religion has been the source of many wars and massacres throughout
history, but it has also been the foundation for a code of morality, and behavior, by
which a civilized society needs to function cohesively.

Authoritarianism. This boils down to the basics of human nature. Liberals believe that
people are all basically good, and if given the right opportunities, they will do the
right thing. Conservatives believe that there are truly "evil" people in the world who,
if given the opportunity, will rob you blind, or worse. Hence the need for an "authority"
to keep those who would cause harm to others, in a place where this cannot happen. The
opposite to authority is anarchy, which seems to be where liberals want to be, although
I honestly don't think that they have thouroughly analyzed the scope of that mindset, or
the implications.

Tolerance of Inequality. Wake up! While we are all human beings, that's about as far as
our equality goes. If you give people the freedom to make their own life choices, you
will have some who will go on to achieve great things. You will also have those who will
achieve little more than the creation of another generation of dependants. What liberals
call "equality", is artificial. A government mandated "leveler" which takes away from
those who achieve, to prop up those who don't. While this may make a bleeding heart feel
good, the results are empty, as the people they helped are no more motivated, and in fact
are more likely to become even more dependant on their "help". You have sentanced those
people to a life of depandance, and medicocrity. Sometimes a proverbial "kick in the pants"
is ultimately more helpful than throwing money. Call it "tough love".


Intolerance of Ambiguity. It's hard to make clear and decisive policies when the issues
are clouded by ambiguities. The idea of deliberate ambiguity defies logic. But logic is
the bane of the liberal mind. There is no place for ambiguities when you are doing such
things as balancing budgets, or passing laws which affect many people.
Most issues can be boiled down to concrete elements, which can be dealt with effectively.
Liberals, on the other hand, prefer to muddle down issues, with vagueness and ambiguity,
as they tend to distrust anything traditional, and ideas which are based on fact. It's hard
to argue with logic and facts. Since liberals are often motivated by emotional "needs"
rather than rational logic, this tendancy toward ambiguity, tends to become a sort of
defense mechanism for them.

Resistance to change. Sometimes change is good. Sometimes change isn't. There are extremes
on both sides. Generally speaking, things which are new, are not necessarily better, and
change for change sake, is not a rational justification for doing so. Once again, liberals
rally around this ideal as yet another attack on the foundations of tradition, which they
abhor on many levels. They're like the kid who can't cope with the rules of the game of
baseball, so they want to change them, rather than learning why the rules are there, and
the wisdom of those who created them.

Lack of "integrative complexity" in thought and speech. This is purely subjective. On the
one hand, I could counter that the deliberate introduction of "integrative complexity", is
the liberal term for intellectual snobbery. The deliberate "talking down" to constituents,
(the so-called "Al Gore Syndrome"). On the other hand, taking this newsgroup as a
representative sample of the two political ideologies, I see little distinctive
difference in the relative "complexity" in the arguments presented. Guys like Chuck, Mark,
and a few others, attempt to make good solid points, in defense of their "side". Then there
are guys like Harry, jps, and the latest incarnation of JimDandy, who offer up little
more than adhominem barbs, and the cut and pasted tripe from other equally clueless writers.
The same goes for the conservative side. There are those who look at the simple sound
byte issue, and those who look at the "bigger" picture.


The release pushed further, noting that "disparate conservatives" such
as Hitler, Mussolini, Ronald Reagan and Rush Limbaugh each preached a
return to an idealized past and condoned inequality.


Funny thing about the past, while there were members of special interest
groups, who may have felt disadvantaged, by and large, the rest of the
population did a whole lot better.

Dave


NOYB August 4th 03 09:04 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
It had the whiff of parody. Psychologists dissecting the conservative
brain?


The authors also maintain they're not judgmental. Labeling
conservatives" less integratively complex," isn't precisely the same
as saying they're simple- minded. It merely means conservatives
aren't compelled to jump through complex, intellectual hoops to
justify their relatively black-and-white view of the world.



That's the beauty of being able to see things in black and white. There's
no need to jump through complex, intellectual hoops to justify anything or
reach a rationale conclusion. The answers to many of the World's "complex"
problems are always so painfully obvious to a conservative. What frustrates
us most is why liberals have such a hard time with logic and reason.

If you're really an engineer, JimDandy, then you'd know that *everything*
can be seen as black and white if you break it down into small enough
elements. Fluid mechanics and finite element analysis are a couple of
perfect engineering examples proving that the world really *is* black or
white...even the grey shades are just teeny-tiny black and white pixels.












Harry Krause August 4th 03 09:53 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
It had the whiff of parody. Psychologists dissecting the conservative
brain?


The authors also maintain they're not judgmental. Labeling
conservatives" less integratively complex," isn't precisely the same
as saying they're simple- minded. It merely means conservatives
aren't compelled to jump through complex, intellectual hoops to
justify their relatively black-and-white view of the world.



That's the beauty of being able to see things in black and white. There's
no need to jump through complex, intellectual hoops to justify anything or
reach a rationale conclusion. The answers to many of the World's "complex"
problems are always so painfully obvious to a conservative.



Indeed, conservatives must find a great deal of solace in their
ignorance and simple-mindedness.


W








--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.


NOYB August 4th 03 09:55 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
It had the whiff of parody. Psychologists dissecting the conservative
brain?

The authors also maintain they're not judgmental. Labeling
conservatives" less integratively complex," isn't precisely the same
as saying they're simple- minded. It merely means conservatives
aren't compelled to jump through complex, intellectual hoops to
justify their relatively black-and-white view of the world.



That's the beauty of being able to see things in black and white.

There's
no need to jump through complex, intellectual hoops to justify anything

or
reach a rationale conclusion. The answers to many of the World's

"complex"
problems are always so painfully obvious to a conservative.



Indeed, conservatives must find a great deal of solace in their
ignorance and simple-mindedness.



More like satisfaction with our clairvoyance.




Harry Krause August 4th 03 10:05 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
It had the whiff of parody. Psychologists dissecting the conservative
brain?

A press release from UC Berkeley


snip

UC Berkeley, eh? Not worth reading then.




It's too bad your mind is rusted shut.

National Rankings & Source

Berkeley ranks first nationally in the number of graduate programs in
the top 10 in their fields.
(97% of Berkeley's programs made the top 10 list.)
National Research Council

Berkeley ranks first nationally in the number of "distinguished"
programs for the scholarship of the faculty [32 programs]
National Research Council



Awards Held by Faculty
Current listed first
All-Time listed second

American Association for the Advancement of Science Fellows
100
125

American Academy of Arts and Sciences Fellows
216
n/a

Fields Medal in Mathematics
2
4

Fulbright Scholars
81
131

Guggenheim Fellows
138
152

Howard Hughes Medical Institute Investigators
9
9

MacArthur Fellows
19
28

National Academy of Education
5
7

National Academy of Engineering
86
101

National Academy of Sciences
122
127

National Medal of Science
16
29

National Poet Laureates
1
1

National Science Foundation Young Investigators Awards
61
88

Nobel Prize
8
18

Polk Award in Journalism


3
3

Pulitzer Prizes
3
5

Sloan Fellows (young researchers)
62
92

Wolf Prizes in agriculture, mathematics, chemistry, physics, medicine
and the arts
7
9
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You smug, right-wing Konservative asses are a trip.




--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.


jps August 4th 03 10:33 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
"NOYB" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
It had the whiff of parody. Psychologists dissecting the

conservative
brain?

The authors also maintain they're not judgmental. Labeling
conservatives" less integratively complex," isn't precisely the

same
as saying they're simple- minded. It merely means conservatives
aren't compelled to jump through complex, intellectual hoops to
justify their relatively black-and-white view of the world.


That's the beauty of being able to see things in black and white.

There's
no need to jump through complex, intellectual hoops to justify

anything
or
reach a rationale conclusion. The answers to many of the World's

"complex"
problems are always so painfully obvious to a conservative.



Indeed, conservatives must find a great deal of solace in their
ignorance and simple-mindedness.



More like satisfaction with our clairvoyance.


So, you believe in black arts eh? Do you suppose that's what's employed to
conger Bush Administration fiscal plans? That'd make sense.



Harry Krause August 4th 03 10:41 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
jps wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
It had the whiff of parody. Psychologists dissecting the

conservative
brain?

The authors also maintain they're not judgmental. Labeling
conservatives" less integratively complex," isn't precisely the

same
as saying they're simple- minded. It merely means conservatives
aren't compelled to jump through complex, intellectual hoops to
justify their relatively black-and-white view of the world.


That's the beauty of being able to see things in black and white.

There's
no need to jump through complex, intellectual hoops to justify

anything
or
reach a rationale conclusion. The answers to many of the World's

"complex"
problems are always so painfully obvious to a conservative.


Indeed, conservatives must find a great deal of solace in their
ignorance and simple-mindedness.



More like satisfaction with our clairvoyance.


So, you believe in black arts eh? Do you suppose that's what's employed to
conger Bush Administration fiscal plans? That'd make sense.



It's been fun watching Tom Ridge play "voodoo security" the last week or
so. Let's see...we'll heighten the security alert to make Americans
uneasy, then we'll tell them we don't need as many sky marshals as we
have, then we'll tell Americans to be prepared for a skyjacking...

Has there been a more incompetent administration in the last 50 years? I
don't think so.

--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.


NOYB August 4th 03 10:45 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
It had the whiff of parody. Psychologists dissecting the conservative
brain?

A press release from UC Berkeley


snip

UC Berkeley, eh? Not worth reading then.




It's too bad your mind is rusted shut.

National Rankings & Source

Berkeley ranks first nationally in the number of graduate programs in
the top 10 in their fields.


Great for Berkeley. However, this report was written by 4 left-wing
liberals from Berkeley's Graduate School of Education "Psychology"
Program...which ranks 45th in the nation by the way.

Here's how Berkeley describes the graduate "Psychology" program:

Established in 1965, the program has prepared students for employment in
public schools, universities, mental health clinics, and a variety of work
settings


"Public schools, universities, and mental health clinics", eh? I guess it's
true...those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.







Q August 4th 03 10:49 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:55:14 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

More like satisfaction with our clairvoyance.


Sept 11 -- 9/11 Sept 11 -- 9/11

You knew about it? Treason!
High Crimes and Misdemeanors!!!
Shame on you.

--
Q

NOYB August 4th 03 10:55 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
Stolen from the internet:


A Frank Study on What Makes a Political Liberal
You've probably heard about the Berkeley study done with your tax dollars on
what makes a political conservative. Here are the factors they identified:

* Fear and aggression
* Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity
* Uncertainty avoidance
* Need for cognitive closure
* Terror management

Funny enough, I had been doing my own study about what makes a political
liberal. I think mine was much more efficient, because I traced it to a
single factor:

* They're f'ing morons

As evidence of this finding, just listen to any liberal. Ever read anything
from Noam Chomsky? What a dumbass. Ever seen an article in The Nation? You
can almost imagine the drool stains on the original copy of whomever wrote
it. Heard Michael Moore speak? Than man is fat and ugly! While that doesn't
prove or disprove my theory, he's also a nitwit, which goes with my
findings.

And ever see a bunch of liberals get together for a protest? It's like a
whole gaggle of retards! You almost expect, that with that much stupidity in
one area, it will collapse upon itself and from a logic black hole, sucking
in all sense that gets near it.

And then there is liberal Hollywood where people are about as dumb as you
can be without forgetting to breathe. It's like that to get into Hollywood
you need to take an intelligence test, and they'll only let you in if it
comes up negative.

Then there are liberal congressmen and women. I've seen them argue on
C-SPAN, and they're so moronic I want to hit them with rocks (there's that
aggression).

Well, I think my study was pretty thorough on what makes a liberal, but what
I really want to find is how to cure it. Liberals seems to protect their
idiocy by forming some sort of force field of pure stupidity, a force field
so strong that logic can't penetrate it. What can penetrate it, though, is a
large stick. Such an item is known to the scientific community as a "whomp'n
stick".

What I want to find out is if by whomp'n a liberal whenever he says
something stupid, can I train him away from liberalism through pure pain
avoidance. My theory is that it will cause conservatism as defined by the
Berkeley study:

* Fear and aggression - Fear of a whomp'n
* Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity - "Are you going to whomp me or
not?"
* Uncertainty avoidance - "I'll stay quiet so I don't get whomped."
* Need for cognitive closure - "Someone patch up this head wound."
* Terror management - "I'll crouch in the corner and be quiet so the scary
man doesn't whomp me."

So there is the study: will a group of liberal who gets whomped have more
converts to conservatism than a control group with no whomp'n.

Ahh... screw the control group; I'm going to whomp 'em both.

Now all I need is millions in a government grant and a stick fit for
whomp'n.

Oh, and I'll need liberal volunteers. The Berkeley scientists from the
previous study are sure free to help out in this one.

WHOMP! WHOMP!




Tuuk August 4th 03 10:56 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
Hey,,
Somebody needs to fiscally responsibly run the country or other countries. I
mean your socialist friends would spend their way into poverty and end up
with nothing. If you dont like the way the country is running, just sit back
in your arm chair, collect your welfare and go play bingo. Leave the big
things to those who know how to do them better. If not for you, for the sake
of the entire nation's survival.






"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
It had the whiff of parody. Psychologists dissecting the conservative
brain?

A press release from UC Berkeley announced that researchers, culling
50 years of data, had identified psychological patterns common to the
minds of right-wingers. Their findings, published in the American
Psychological Association's Psychological Bulletin, listed these
predictors of conservatism: fear, aggression, dogmatism,
authoritarianism, tolerance of inequality, intolerance of ambiguity,
resistance to change and lack of "integrative complexity" in thought
and speech. Hardly a flattering portrait.

The release pushed further, noting that "disparate conservatives" such
as Hitler, Mussolini, Ronald Reagan and Rush Limbaugh each preached a
return to an idealized past and condoned inequality.

The research is serious scholarship, insist the authors from Stanford,
U.C. Berkeley and the University of Maryland synthesized 88 previously
published samples involving 22,818 participants from 12 countries into
10 "meta-analytic calculations."

The study starts by assuming that people adopt a belief system such as
conservatism partly to satisfy some psychological need. "This does not
mean that conservatism is pathological," the authors hasten to note,
"or that conservative beliefs are necessarily false, irrational or
unprincipled."

As Seinfeld might add, "not that there's anything wrong with that . .
. ."

The authors also maintain they're not judgmental. Labeling
conservatives" less integratively complex," isn't precisely the same
as saying they're simple- minded. It merely means conservatives aren't
compelled to jump through complex,

intellectual hoops to justify their relatively black-and-white view of
the world.

One of the researchers' methods involved analyzing political speeches
and judicial opinions on the basis of structural complexity.
Conservatives thought and spoke more simply -- hence President Bush's
observation "Look, my job isn't to nuance."




jps August 4th 03 11:19 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
"NOYB" wrote in message
thlink.net...
Stolen from the internet:


Feeble retort to many man years of honest work. Figures your hero's "cure"
for liberals is violence. These days it seems conservatives are finding
violence to be the tool they resort to most frequently.

Hurts their brains to do any of that deep thinking or have any manner of
patience, it's simpler to just kick some ass and figure out what happened
later. Meanwhile, 250 of our kids and countless innocents have paid for it
with their lives.

F'ing idiots.



Harry Krause August 5th 03 12:06 AM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
Tuuk wrote:

Hey,,
Somebody needs to fiscally responsibly run the country or other countries. I
mean your socialist friends would spend their way into poverty and end up
with nothing. If you dont like the way the country is running, just sit back
in your arm chair, collect your welfare and go play bingo. Leave the big
things to those who know how to do them better. If not for you, for the sake
of the entire nation's survival.






"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
It had the whiff of parody. Psychologists dissecting the conservative
brain?

A press release from UC Berkeley announced that researchers, culling
50 years of data, had identified psychological patterns common to the
minds of right-wingers. Their findings, published in the American
Psychological Association's Psychological Bulletin, listed these
predictors of conservatism: fear, aggression, dogmatism,
authoritarianism, tolerance of inequality, intolerance of ambiguity,
resistance to change and lack of "integrative complexity" in thought
and speech. Hardly a flattering portrait.

The release pushed further, noting that "disparate conservatives" such
as Hitler, Mussolini, Ronald Reagan and Rush Limbaugh each preached a
return to an idealized past and condoned inequality.

The research is serious scholarship, insist the authors from Stanford,
U.C. Berkeley and the University of Maryland synthesized 88 previously
published samples involving 22,818 participants from 12 countries into
10 "meta-analytic calculations."

The study starts by assuming that people adopt a belief system such as
conservatism partly to satisfy some psychological need. "This does not
mean that conservatism is pathological," the authors hasten to note,
"or that conservative beliefs are necessarily false, irrational or
unprincipled."

As Seinfeld might add, "not that there's anything wrong with that . .
. ."

The authors also maintain they're not judgmental. Labeling
conservatives" less integratively complex," isn't precisely the same
as saying they're simple- minded. It merely means conservatives aren't
compelled to jump through complex,

intellectual hoops to justify their relatively black-and-white view of
the world.

One of the researchers' methods involved analyzing political speeches
and judicial opinions on the basis of structural complexity.
Conservatives thought and spoke more simply -- hence President Bush's
observation "Look, my job isn't to nuance."




Fiscally responsible? Then you surely don't want a Republican in the
White House.

--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.


thunder August 5th 03 12:07 AM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:41:07 +0000, Harry Krause wrote:


It's been fun watching Tom Ridge play "voodoo security" the last
week or so. Let's see...we'll heighten the security alert to make
Americans uneasy, then we'll tell them we don't need as many sky
marshals as we have, then we'll tell Americans to be prepared for a
skyjacking...

Has there been a more incompetent administration in the last 50
years? I don't think so.


They sure do bounce around. It's a little like watching a game of
Three Card Monty, only not as slick.

noah August 5th 03 01:15 AM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:41:07 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

snippage-my apologies

It's been fun watching Tom Ridge play "voodoo security" the last week or
so. Let's see...we'll heighten the security alert to make Americans
uneasy, then we'll tell them we don't need as many sky marshals as we
have, then we'll tell Americans to be prepared for a skyjacking...

Has there been a more incompetent administration in the last 50 years? I
don't think so.


As you already know, these "Security Alerts" are doubly inane. Since
9/11, since Afghanistan, since Iraq, *every* day should be seen as a
"high risk" day. Are we going to count on Al-Jazira to predict our
security risks??? What a bunch of horse****! If Al-Qaida is going to
hit us, they aren't likely to put it on the radio or TV first.

"Al-Jazira stated today that you should call your mother." HAR!!!

More frightening is the thought that the Bush Administration needs
every diversion that they can get, because the pacification of Iraq
gets more deadly, and more uncontrollable, every day. The absolute
certainty of WMD's has become "murky intelligence". Saddam's certain
nuclear- sorry, noocular program has become an "intelligence error".
The only saving grace at this point is some sort of "liberation" for
the Iraqi people, although loyalty will temporarily lie with whoever
gives them food, electricity, and water. A hungry man does not care
about Democracy, he wants to eat, and to feed his family, and he does
not care who is running the show.

Are we delusional (just a question) in thinking that a society that
has been fuedal for 3,000 years will suddenly embrace Democracy? The
jubilation at the toppling of Saddam's statue has been replaced by
demonstrations and RPG's.

For those that remember, and for those that don't, it is becoming like
Vietnam. Daily death counts in a country that we do not, and cannot,
control, populated by people that we do not understand.

My utmost respect and appreciation goes to the members of our various
armed forces, who place their lives on the line every day, to defend
their country. I also pray daily that our leadership is worthy of
such sacrifice.

My respectful condolences go to those who have lost loved ones in this
war.

noah



Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats

Harry Krause August 5th 03 01:57 AM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
noah wrote:

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:41:07 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

snippage-my apologies

It's been fun watching Tom Ridge play "voodoo security" the last week or
so. Let's see...we'll heighten the security alert to make Americans
uneasy, then we'll tell them we don't need as many sky marshals as we
have, then we'll tell Americans to be prepared for a skyjacking...

Has there been a more incompetent administration in the last 50 years? I
don't think so.


As you already know, these "Security Alerts" are doubly inane. Since
9/11, since Afghanistan, since Iraq, *every* day should be seen as a
"high risk" day. Are we going to count on Al-Jazira to predict our
security risks??? What a bunch of horse****! If Al-Qaida is going to
hit us, they aren't likely to put it on the radio or TV first.

"Al-Jazira stated today that you should call your mother." HAR!!!

More frightening is the thought that the Bush Administration needs
every diversion that they can get, because the pacification of Iraq
gets more deadly, and more uncontrollable, every day. The absolute
certainty of WMD's has become "murky intelligence". Saddam's certain
nuclear- sorry, noocular program has become an "intelligence error".
The only saving grace at this point is some sort of "liberation" for
the Iraqi people, although loyalty will temporarily lie with whoever
gives them food, electricity, and water. A hungry man does not care
about Democracy, he wants to eat, and to feed his family, and he does
not care who is running the show.

Are we delusional (just a question) in thinking that a society that
has been fuedal for 3,000 years will suddenly embrace Democracy? The
jubilation at the toppling of Saddam's statue has been replaced by
demonstrations and RPG's.

For those that remember, and for those that don't, it is becoming like
Vietnam. Daily death counts in a country that we do not, and cannot,
control, populated by people that we do not understand.

My utmost respect and appreciation goes to the members of our various
armed forces, who place their lives on the line every day, to defend
their country. I also pray daily that our leadership is worthy of
such sacrifice.

My respectful condolences go to those who have lost loved ones in this
war.

noah


I'm afraid it is going to take a significantly larger number of body
bags to force the Bush Administration to come to some sort of sense.
Today's news reports were full of features about ultra-conservative
mullahs from Iran returning to Iraq to take up where they left before
Saddam, to establish a theocracy in Iraq. Now *that* should be interesting.

You really have to wonder how stupid Bush really is to go down the path
he is following. He is creating a world in which those who oppose us are
solidifying in ways never imagined in the "good" old days of the Kremlin.

We're going to take a big hit from the terrorists, and when we do, it
will be because of Bush. That has to be made crystal clear to Americans.



--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.


Jamce1 August 5th 03 02:46 AM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
harry,

i think what is being lost here is that another attack would be good for bush,
ie simple minded people will always revert back to basic instincts when
attacked. he makes people feel good and safe with his soundbites, wargames, and
religeous good vs evil bull****. 911 was the best thing that ever happened to
this administration, and he would surely be one term if it wasnt for that.

terror will not be defeated on the battlefield, and it surely will not be
defeated by giving allies ultimatums and shooting the finger at anybody that
doesnt fall in line. these concepts and ideas are too complex for the redneck
foxnews idiots in this country.

why you, jps, gould and the others engage these clowns in here is beyond me.
what is the point? talk with people who have an open mind and can see this for
what it is. that is our only hope. the swing voters are the key, not these
pricks. stop ****ing in the wind.

chris



Subject: OT The Conservative Brain
From: Harry Krause
Date: 8/4/03 5:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

noah wrote:

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:41:07 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

snippage-my apologies

It's been fun watching Tom Ridge play "voodoo security" the last week or
so. Let's see...we'll heighten the security alert to make Americans
uneasy, then we'll tell them we don't need as many sky marshals as we
have, then we'll tell Americans to be prepared for a skyjacking...

Has there been a more incompetent administration in the last 50 years? I
don't think so.


As you already know, these "Security Alerts" are doubly inane. Since
9/11, since Afghanistan, since Iraq, *every* day should be seen as a
"high risk" day. Are we going to count on Al-Jazira to predict our
security risks??? What a bunch of horse****! If Al-Qaida is going to
hit us, they aren't likely to put it on the radio or TV first.

"Al-Jazira stated today that you should call your mother." HAR!!!

More frightening is the thought that the Bush Administration needs
every diversion that they can get, because the pacification of Iraq
gets more deadly, and more uncontrollable, every day. The absolute
certainty of WMD's has become "murky intelligence". Saddam's certain
nuclear- sorry, noocular program has become an "intelligence error".
The only saving grace at this point is some sort of "liberation" for
the Iraqi people, although loyalty will temporarily lie with whoever
gives them food, electricity, and water. A hungry man does not care
about Democracy, he wants to eat, and to feed his family, and he does
not care who is running the show.

Are we delusional (just a question) in thinking that a society that
has been fuedal for 3,000 years will suddenly embrace Democracy? The
jubilation at the toppling of Saddam's statue has been replaced by
demonstrations and RPG's.

For those that remember, and for those that don't, it is becoming like
Vietnam. Daily death counts in a country that we do not, and cannot,
control, populated by people that we do not understand.

My utmost respect and appreciation goes to the members of our various
armed forces, who place their lives on the line every day, to defend
their country. I also pray daily that our leadership is worthy of
such sacrifice.

My respectful condolences go to those who have lost loved ones in this
war.

noah


I'm afraid it is going to take a significantly larger number of body
bags to force the Bush Administration to come to some sort of sense.
Today's news reports were full of features about ultra-conservative
mullahs from Iran returning to Iraq to take up where they left before
Saddam, to establish a theocracy in Iraq. Now *that* should be interesting.

You really have to wonder how stupid Bush really is to go down the path
he is following. He is creating a world in which those who oppose us are
solidifying in ways never imagined in the "good" old days of the Kremlin.

We're going to take a big hit from the terrorists, and when we do, it
will be because of Bush. That has to be made crystal clear to Americans.



--
* * *
email sent to
will *never* get to me.










Harry Krause August 5th 03 10:34 AM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
Jamce1 wrote:
harry,

i think what is being lost here is that another attack would be good for bush,
ie simple minded people will always revert back to basic instincts when
attacked. he makes people feel good and safe with his soundbites, wargames, and
religeous good vs evil bull****. 911 was the best thing that ever happened to
this administration, and he would surely be one term if it wasnt for that.


I'm sure there are Bush-ites who are praying to Allah for another attack
so that their "fearful leader" can try, once again, to look
"presidential," instead of lookling like an idiot.





--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.











basskisser August 5th 03 12:04 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
"NOYB" wrote in message k.net...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
It had the whiff of parody. Psychologists dissecting the conservative
brain?

A press release from UC Berkeley


snip

UC Berkeley, eh? Not worth reading then.


Exactly the point....closed minded conservatives.

basskisser August 5th 03 12:08 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
"NOYB" wrote in message rthlink.net...
Stolen from the internet:


A Frank Study on What Makes a Political Liberal
You've probably heard about the Berkeley study done with your tax dollars on
what makes a political conservative. Here are the factors they identified:

* Fear and aggression
* Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity
* Uncertainty avoidance
* Need for cognitive closure
* Terror management

Funny enough, I had been doing my own study about what makes a political
liberal. I think mine was much more efficient, because I traced it to a
single factor:

* They're f'ing morons

As evidence of this finding, just listen to any liberal. Ever read anything
from Noam Chomsky? What a dumbass. Ever seen an article in The Nation? You
can almost imagine the drool stains on the original copy of whomever wrote
it. Heard Michael Moore speak? Than man is fat and ugly! While that doesn't
prove or disprove my theory, he's also a nitwit, which goes with my
findings.

And ever see a bunch of liberals get together for a protest? It's like a
whole gaggle of retards! You almost expect, that with that much stupidity in
one area, it will collapse upon itself and from a logic black hole, sucking
in all sense that gets near it.

And then there is liberal Hollywood where people are about as dumb as you
can be without forgetting to breathe. It's like that to get into Hollywood
you need to take an intelligence test, and they'll only let you in if it
comes up negative.

Then there are liberal congressmen and women. I've seen them argue on
C-SPAN, and they're so moronic I want to hit them with rocks (there's that
aggression).

Well, I think my study was pretty thorough on what makes a liberal, but what
I really want to find is how to cure it. Liberals seems to protect their
idiocy by forming some sort of force field of pure stupidity, a force field
so strong that logic can't penetrate it. What can penetrate it, though, is a
large stick. Such an item is known to the scientific community as a "whomp'n
stick".

What I want to find out is if by whomp'n a liberal whenever he says
something stupid, can I train him away from liberalism through pure pain
avoidance. My theory is that it will cause conservatism as defined by the
Berkeley study:

* Fear and aggression - Fear of a whomp'n
* Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity - "Are you going to whomp me or
not?"
* Uncertainty avoidance - "I'll stay quiet so I don't get whomped."
* Need for cognitive closure - "Someone patch up this head wound."
* Terror management - "I'll crouch in the corner and be quiet so the scary
man doesn't whomp me."

So there is the study: will a group of liberal who gets whomped have more
converts to conservatism than a control group with no whomp'n.

Ahh... screw the control group; I'm going to whomp 'em both.

Now all I need is millions in a government grant and a stick fit for
whomp'n.

Oh, and I'll need liberal volunteers. The Berkeley scientists from the
previous study are sure free to help out in this one.

WHOMP! WHOMP!


WHERE did you get such horse****?

Mark Browne August 5th 03 02:29 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
snip

I'm afraid it is going to take a significantly larger number of body
bags to force the Bush Administration to come to some sort of sense.
Today's news reports were full of features about ultra-conservative
mullahs from Iran returning to Iraq to take up where they left before
Saddam, to establish a theocracy in Iraq. Now *that* should be

interesting.

You really have to wonder how stupid Bush really is to go down the path
he is following. He is creating a world in which those who oppose us are
solidifying in ways never imagined in the "good" old days of the

Kremlin.

We're going to take a big hit from the terrorists, and when we do, it
will be because of Bush. That has to be made crystal clear to Americans.



Here is a news flash for you....we already did. Shall we place the blame

for 9-11 then
on the hands of BJ Clinton?

While slick Willie has done his fair share of bad things, this is not one of
them.

Look for the president that was doing black bag ops to provide weapons to
"friendly" fighters in the middle east. This is a big part of the blame.
Every oil friendly politician who supported the House of Saud with weapons
and military support without asking questions has a fair share of the blame.
Support of Israel with no questions asked, and no conditions imposed, in
return for our monetary and military support certainly did not help
anything.

These bad policies for most of two generations have brought the USA to the
place it is now in the Arab street. There is no silver bullet that will fix
the mess. It would seem that it may take as long to fix the mess as it did
to make it in the first place.

Mark Browne



NOYB August 5th 03 02:59 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jamce1 wrote:
harry,

i think what is being lost here is that another attack would be good for

bush,
ie simple minded people will always revert back to basic instincts when
attacked. he makes people feel good and safe with his soundbites,

wargames, and
religeous good vs evil bull****. 911 was the best thing that ever

happened to
this administration, and he would surely be one term if it wasnt for

that.

I'm sure there are Bush-ites who are praying to Allah for another attack
so that their "fearful leader" can try, once again, to look
"presidential," instead of lookling like an idiot.


That's where Dems and Republicans differ. We'd never hope for tragedy and
suffering just to further our agenda. You guys, however, were caught
red-handed in California trying to prolong the budget crisis. You're a
bunch of sick *******s that aren't worth a piece of dried up dog poop on the
bottom of some bum's sole.





NOYB August 5th 03 03:27 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message

rthlink.net...
Stolen from the internet:


A Frank Study on What Makes a Political Liberal
You've probably heard about the Berkeley study done with your tax

dollars on
what makes a political conservative. Here are the factors they

identified:

* Fear and aggression
* Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity
* Uncertainty avoidance
* Need for cognitive closure
* Terror management

Funny enough, I had been doing my own study about what makes a political
liberal. I think mine was much more efficient, because I traced it to a
single factor:

* They're f'ing morons

As evidence of this finding, just listen to any liberal. Ever read

anything
from Noam Chomsky? What a dumbass. Ever seen an article in The Nation?

You
can almost imagine the drool stains on the original copy of whomever

wrote
it. Heard Michael Moore speak? Than man is fat and ugly! While that

doesn't
prove or disprove my theory, he's also a nitwit, which goes with my
findings.

And ever see a bunch of liberals get together for a protest? It's like a
whole gaggle of retards! You almost expect, that with that much

stupidity in
one area, it will collapse upon itself and from a logic black hole,

sucking
in all sense that gets near it.

And then there is liberal Hollywood where people are about as dumb as

you
can be without forgetting to breathe. It's like that to get into

Hollywood
you need to take an intelligence test, and they'll only let you in if it
comes up negative.

Then there are liberal congressmen and women. I've seen them argue on
C-SPAN, and they're so moronic I want to hit them with rocks (there's

that
aggression).

Well, I think my study was pretty thorough on what makes a liberal, but

what
I really want to find is how to cure it. Liberals seems to protect their
idiocy by forming some sort of force field of pure stupidity, a force

field
so strong that logic can't penetrate it. What can penetrate it, though,

is a
large stick. Such an item is known to the scientific community as a

"whomp'n
stick".

What I want to find out is if by whomp'n a liberal whenever he says
something stupid, can I train him away from liberalism through pure pain
avoidance. My theory is that it will cause conservatism as defined by

the
Berkeley study:

* Fear and aggression - Fear of a whomp'n
* Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity - "Are you going to whomp me or
not?"
* Uncertainty avoidance - "I'll stay quiet so I don't get whomped."
* Need for cognitive closure - "Someone patch up this head wound."
* Terror management - "I'll crouch in the corner and be quiet so the

scary
man doesn't whomp me."

So there is the study: will a group of liberal who gets whomped have

more
converts to conservatism than a control group with no whomp'n.

Ahh... screw the control group; I'm going to whomp 'em both.

Now all I need is millions in a government grant and a stick fit for
whomp'n.

Oh, and I'll need liberal volunteers. The Berkeley scientists from the
previous study are sure free to help out in this one.

WHOMP! WHOMP!


WHERE did you get such horse****?


NPR. :-)




basskisser August 5th 03 05:42 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
"Mark Browne" wrote in message news:1EOXa.48146
One of my biggest problems with authority is that it attracts the few truly
"evil" to the position. Any position of power attracts these people like a
flies to dog droppings. Once these "evil" people get into the these
positions it is virtually impossible to dislodge them. As long as they keep
their dealings concealed from the light of day, most people are blissfully
unaware that anything bad is going on. I would take that a step further and
say that most people are too busy living thier lives to even look and see
how things are going. This gives the scummy folks a fairly free reign to do
whatever they want.


Absolutely. Big business (mostly conservative) is just choked FULL of
crooks, people who are cooking books on a daily basis, robbing Peter
to pay Paul, and on and on.

I used to expect that most elected people are good; experience has changed
that opinion. I have come to expect this subversion of authority as a part
of the human condition, and look for this sort of thing from virtually any
position of authority. Constant watchfulness of the elected leaders is a
necessary part of democracy. I would also say that it is necessary part of
being a stockholder.

Mark Browne


Again, how true. You can't trust an elected official of any party, at
any given time, in my opinion. Too much up for grabs, so to speak.

basskisser August 5th 03 05:47 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
Dave Hall wrote in message ...
basskisser wrote:

It had the whiff of parody. Psychologists dissecting the conservative
brain?

A press release from UC Berkeley


Here's a REAL objective piece. Right from the heart of the bastion of
liberalism.


announced that researchers, culling
50 years of data, had identified psychological patterns common to the
minds of right-wingers. Their findings, published in the American
Psychological Association's Psychological Bulletin, listed these
predictors of conservatism: fear, aggression, dogmatism,
authoritarianism, tolerance of inequality, intolerance of ambiguity,
resistance to change and Hardly a flattering portrait.


Let's assume for a second, that this is correct.

Yes, let's do that! Fifty YEARS of data.....suggests that yes, indeed,
it is correct.

And when taken against the
apparent liberal slant, which would then conversely imply that liberals are the
opposite of conservatives, and let's look at these elements:

Fear. No, not fear, respect. Respect is something that liberals know little of.
Indeed many long standing traditions and institutions are all comoing under
criticism by liberals, who do not understand the need for honoring traditions.


snip the crap

Dave



Provide one shred of evidence, such as fifty years worth of data, like
the original post, that backs all of your claims about liberals.

basskisser August 5th 03 05:49 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
" Tuuk" wrote in message ...
Hey,,
Somebody needs to fiscally responsibly run the country or other countries. I
mean your socialist friends would spend their way into poverty and end up
with nothing. If you dont like the way the country is running, just sit back
in your arm chair, collect your welfare and go play bingo. Leave the big
things to those who know how to do them better. If not for you, for the sake
of the entire nation's survival.


Really? As I recall, eight years under Clinton......fantastic economy.
Reagan? Economy sucked. Bush I? Economy sucked. Bush II? Economy was
driven into the ground in a hell of a hurry.

Fiscal responsibility, indeed!

basskisser August 5th 03 05:54 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
"NOYB" wrote in message rthlink.net...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
It had the whiff of parody. Psychologists dissecting the conservative
brain?


The authors also maintain they're not judgmental. Labeling
conservatives" less integratively complex," isn't precisely the same
as saying they're simple- minded. It merely means conservatives
aren't compelled to jump through complex, intellectual hoops to
justify their relatively black-and-white view of the world.



That's the beauty of being able to see things in black and white. There's
no need to jump through complex, intellectual hoops to justify anything or
reach a rationale conclusion. The answers to many of the World's "complex"
problems are always so painfully obvious to a conservative. What frustrates
us most is why liberals have such a hard time with logic and reason.

If you're really an engineer, JimDandy, then you'd know that *everything*
can be seen as black and white if you break it down into small enough
elements. Fluid mechanics and finite element analysis are a couple of
perfect engineering examples proving that the world really *is* black or
white...even the grey shades are just teeny-tiny black and white pixels.


Yes, but the thing is, the smaller the elements, the more the "whole"
is diluted. Just because something can (and you're correct, anything
CAN be) broken down into elementary analysis, doesn't mean that it's
NOT complex!

basskisser August 5th 03 05:57 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
"NOYB" wrote in message rthlink.net...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message

rthlink.net...
Stolen from the internet:


A Frank Study on What Makes a Political Liberal
You've probably heard about the Berkeley study done with your tax

dollars on
what makes a political conservative. Here are the factors they

identified:

* Fear and aggression
* Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity
* Uncertainty avoidance
* Need for cognitive closure
* Terror management

Funny enough, I had been doing my own study about what makes a political
liberal. I think mine was much more efficient, because I traced it to a
single factor:

* They're f'ing morons

As evidence of this finding, just listen to any liberal. Ever read

anything
from Noam Chomsky? What a dumbass. Ever seen an article in The Nation?

You
can almost imagine the drool stains on the original copy of whomever

wrote
it. Heard Michael Moore speak? Than man is fat and ugly! While that

doesn't
prove or disprove my theory, he's also a nitwit, which goes with my
findings.

And ever see a bunch of liberals get together for a protest? It's like a
whole gaggle of retards! You almost expect, that with that much

stupidity in
one area, it will collapse upon itself and from a logic black hole,

sucking
in all sense that gets near it.

And then there is liberal Hollywood where people are about as dumb as

you
can be without forgetting to breathe. It's like that to get into

Hollywood
you need to take an intelligence test, and they'll only let you in if it
comes up negative.

Then there are liberal congressmen and women. I've seen them argue on
C-SPAN, and they're so moronic I want to hit them with rocks (there's

that
aggression).

Well, I think my study was pretty thorough on what makes a liberal, but

what
I really want to find is how to cure it. Liberals seems to protect their
idiocy by forming some sort of force field of pure stupidity, a force

field
so strong that logic can't penetrate it. What can penetrate it, though,

is a
large stick. Such an item is known to the scientific community as a

"whomp'n
stick".

What I want to find out is if by whomp'n a liberal whenever he says
something stupid, can I train him away from liberalism through pure pain
avoidance. My theory is that it will cause conservatism as defined by

the
Berkeley study:

* Fear and aggression - Fear of a whomp'n
* Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity - "Are you going to whomp me or
not?"
* Uncertainty avoidance - "I'll stay quiet so I don't get whomped."
* Need for cognitive closure - "Someone patch up this head wound."
* Terror management - "I'll crouch in the corner and be quiet so the

scary
man doesn't whomp me."

So there is the study: will a group of liberal who gets whomped have

more
converts to conservatism than a control group with no whomp'n.

Ahh... screw the control group; I'm going to whomp 'em both.

Now all I need is millions in a government grant and a stick fit for
whomp'n.

Oh, and I'll need liberal volunteers. The Berkeley scientists from the
previous study are sure free to help out in this one.

WHOMP! WHOMP!


WHERE did you get such horse****?


NPR. :-)


Bull****. Purely made up, doesn't exist. But then again, conservatives
ARE good at making up things...just look at Rush, the world's biggest
liar.

basskisser August 5th 03 06:00 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
NOYB wrote:
"Public schools, universities, and mental health clinics", eh? I guess

it's
true...those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.


And was answered with:

Another truly phobic reply. Conservatives don't like those very
teachers that taught them. Why? Well, to be a teacher, and continue to
learn, you need to be open minded.


And then he re-replied with:

Yeah...so open-minded that your brain falls out.


Pathetic. Really.

basskisser August 5th 03 06:01 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
"NOYB" wrote in message k.net...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
It had the whiff of parody. Psychologists dissecting the conservative
brain?

A press release from UC Berkeley


snip

UC Berkeley, eh? Not worth reading then.


Where did you graduate from? Anyplace with nearly the distinction of
UC Berkeley? Or DID you graduate?

Dave Hall August 5th 03 06:14 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
Mark Browne wrote:

snip
Authoritarianism. This boils down to the basics of human nature. Liberals

believe that
people are all basically good, and if given the right opportunities, they

will do the
right thing. Conservatives believe that there are truly "evil" people in

the world who,
if given the opportunity, will rob you blind, or worse. Hence the need for

an "authority"
to keep those who would cause harm to others, in a place where this cannot

happen. The
opposite to authority is anarchy, which seems to be where liberals want to

be, although
I honestly don't think that they have thouroughly analyzed the scope of

that mindset, or
the implications.

snip
One of my biggest problems with authority is that it attracts the few truly
"evil" to the position.


You are 100% on the money with that observation Mark.


Any position of power attracts these people like a
flies to dog droppings. Once these "evil" people get into the these
positions it is virtually impossible to dislodge them.


The founding fathers on our constitiution recognized this tendancy, and
that's why they created our system of checks and balances. That's also
why we have things like "term limits". I noticed that Bill Clinton, of
all people, has been making noise about removing or modifying that
limit, as of late. I don't see much good to come from that.


As long as they keep
their dealings concealed from the light of day, most people are blissfully
unaware that anything bad is going on. I would take that a step further and
say that most people are too busy living thier lives to even look and see
how things are going. This gives the scummy folks a fairly free reign to do
whatever they want.


Well, I would comment, that if people are too busy living their lives to
see what's happening, then what is happening cannot be all that bad. In
the cases of brutal dictatorships, like Hitler, Stalin, Hussein et. al.,
the population suffered greately under an oppressive regime. I'd say
conditions like this would make people take notice. Now whether they are
in a position to do something about it, is the big question. In most
cases, the answer is no. Most brutal dictators are as paranoid as they
are ruthless, and make sure that any form of resistance, and the means
to carry it out, would be especially hard to come by. Punishment, and
public examples, help to deter the thought of opposing.

Some people like to think of our current administration in the same
light. I think the comparison is ridiculous. If GWB is as bad as the
detractors say, then he'll be history in a little over a year. That's
what makes this country so great.

There is a difference between being decisive, and assertive, with
respect to foreign policy, and being brutal.


I used to expect that most elected people are good; experience has changed
that opinion. I have come to expect this subversion of authority as a part
of the human condition, and look for this sort of thing from virtually any
position of authority. Constant watchfulness of the elected leaders is a
necessary part of democracy. I would also say that it is necessary part of
being a stockholder.


Succumbing to the alure of power, is a common human failing. I would
have to ask, why it seems so much more prevalant today, than in times
past? Or is the answer that we were too blissfully naive to notice back
then? Or is the answer that much of this merely perception, fueled by
those who are driven by paranoia and an intrinsic distrust of any sort
of authority?

Dave



Dave Hall August 5th 03 06:23 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
Mark Browne wrote:

snip

I'm afraid it is going to take a significantly larger number of body
bags to force the Bush Administration to come to some sort of sense.
Today's news reports were full of features about ultra-conservative
mullahs from Iran returning to Iraq to take up where they left before
Saddam, to establish a theocracy in Iraq. Now *that* should be

interesting.

You really have to wonder how stupid Bush really is to go down the path
he is following. He is creating a world in which those who oppose us are
solidifying in ways never imagined in the "good" old days of the

Kremlin.

We're going to take a big hit from the terrorists, and when we do, it
will be because of Bush. That has to be made crystal clear to Americans.



Here is a news flash for you....we already did. Shall we place the blame

for 9-11 then
on the hands of BJ Clinton?

While slick Willie has done his fair share of bad things, this is not one of
them.

Look for the president that was doing black bag ops to provide weapons to
"friendly" fighters in the middle east. This is a big part of the blame.
Every oil friendly politician who supported the House of Saud with weapons
and military support without asking questions has a fair share of the blame.
Support of Israel with no questions asked, and no conditions imposed, in
return for our monetary and military support certainly did not help
anything.

These bad policies for most of two generations have brought the USA to the
place it is now in the Arab street. There is no silver bullet that will fix
the mess. It would seem that it may take as long to fix the mess as it did
to make it in the first place.


While there are many theories as to which policies, and what deals have
precipitated much of the hatred and distrust by our Arab neighbors (Much
of this seeming conflict of interest stems from our own churn in
administrations every 4-8 years, with different agendas WRT the middle
east), It is, as they say, water over the dam now. The big question is
what do we do about it?

Do we adopt a position of strength, and attempt to deal with threats? Or
do we adopt a position of appeasement? Do we allow the threat of
terrorism to sway political doctrines? Do we give in to the demands of a
loose group of malcontents? What message does this send?

Can we even fix it? When you have a growing segment of extreme Islam,
who have declared that their purpose is to "cleanse" the globe of
"infidels", how can we hope to strike up a middle ground?

Dave



Doug Kanter August 5th 03 06:27 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...

"NOYB" wrote in message

rthlink.net...


If you're really an engineer, JimDandy, then you'd know that

*everything*
can be seen as black and white if you break it down into small enough
elements. Fluid mechanics and finite element analysis are a couple of
perfect engineering examples proving that the world really *is* black or
white...even the grey shades are just teeny-tiny black and white pixels.


Yes, but the thing is, the smaller the elements, the more the "whole"
is diluted. Just because something can (and you're correct, anything
CAN be) broken down into elementary analysis, doesn't mean that it's
NOT complex!


It does if you crave simplicity, like Nookular Boy and his army of lemmings.



JohnH August 5th 03 06:30 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 21:55:38 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

Stolen from the internet:


A Frank Study on What Makes a Political Liberal
You've probably heard about the Berkeley study done with your tax dollars on
what makes a political conservative. Here are the factors they identified:

* Fear and aggression
* Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity
* Uncertainty avoidance
* Need for cognitive closure
* Terror management

Funny enough, I had been doing my own study about what makes a political
liberal. I think mine was much more efficient, because I traced it to a
single factor:

* They're f'ing morons

As evidence of this finding, just listen to any liberal. Ever read anything
from Noam Chomsky? What a dumbass. Ever seen an article in The Nation? You
can almost imagine the drool stains on the original copy of whomever wrote
it. Heard Michael Moore speak? Than man is fat and ugly! While that doesn't
prove or disprove my theory, he's also a nitwit, which goes with my
findings.

And ever see a bunch of liberals get together for a protest? It's like a
whole gaggle of retards! You almost expect, that with that much stupidity in
one area, it will collapse upon itself and from a logic black hole, sucking
in all sense that gets near it.

And then there is liberal Hollywood where people are about as dumb as you
can be without forgetting to breathe. It's like that to get into Hollywood
you need to take an intelligence test, and they'll only let you in if it
comes up negative.

Then there are liberal congressmen and women. I've seen them argue on
C-SPAN, and they're so moronic I want to hit them with rocks (there's that
aggression).

Well, I think my study was pretty thorough on what makes a liberal, but what
I really want to find is how to cure it. Liberals seems to protect their
idiocy by forming some sort of force field of pure stupidity, a force field
so strong that logic can't penetrate it. What can penetrate it, though, is a
large stick. Such an item is known to the scientific community as a "whomp'n
stick".

What I want to find out is if by whomp'n a liberal whenever he says
something stupid, can I train him away from liberalism through pure pain
avoidance. My theory is that it will cause conservatism as defined by the
Berkeley study:

* Fear and aggression - Fear of a whomp'n
* Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity - "Are you going to whomp me or
not?"
* Uncertainty avoidance - "I'll stay quiet so I don't get whomped."
* Need for cognitive closure - "Someone patch up this head wound."
* Terror management - "I'll crouch in the corner and be quiet so the scary
man doesn't whomp me."

So there is the study: will a group of liberal who gets whomped have more
converts to conservatism than a control group with no whomp'n.

Ahh... screw the control group; I'm going to whomp 'em both.

Now all I need is millions in a government grant and a stick fit for
whomp'n.

Oh, and I'll need liberal volunteers. The Berkeley scientists from the
previous study are sure free to help out in this one.

WHOMP! WHOMP!


Thank you, NOYB. This study was thoughtfully analyzed and well written. It
deserves its own thread. Hope you don't mind.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

Doug Kanter August 5th 03 06:33 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
" Tuuk" wrote in message

...
Hey,,
Somebody needs to fiscally responsibly run the country or other

countries. I
mean your socialist friends would spend their way into poverty and end

up
with nothing. If you dont like the way the country is running, just sit

back
in your arm chair, collect your welfare and go play bingo. Leave the big
things to those who know how to do them better. If not for you, for the

sake
of the entire nation's survival.


Really? As I recall, eight years under Clinton......fantastic economy.
Reagan? Economy sucked. Bush I? Economy sucked. Bush II? Economy was
driven into the ground in a hell of a hurry.

Fiscal responsibility, indeed!


Actually, if you look at a graph of the stock market and compare it with
parties in office, it's always done significantly better during Democratic
administrations. The Repubs in my PaineWebber office used to hate this
chart. Their stock response to it was "Yeah...well....oh yeah?"



JohnH August 5th 03 06:35 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:19:28 -0700, "jps" wrote:

"NOYB" wrote in message
rthlink.net...
Stolen from the internet:


Feeble retort to many man years of honest work. Figures your hero's "cure"
for liberals is violence. These days it seems conservatives are finding
violence to be the tool they resort to most frequently.

Hurts their brains to do any of that deep thinking or have any manner of
patience, it's simpler to just kick some ass and figure out what happened
later. Meanwhile, 250 of our kids and countless innocents have paid for it
with their lives.

F'ing idiots.

No more feeble than the Berkely Bull**** so many of you are so enamored with.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

NOYB August 5th 03 07:26 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
thlink.net...


Great for Berkeley. However, this report was written by 4 left-wing
liberals from Berkeley's Graduate School of Education "Psychology"
Program...which ranks 45th in the nation by the way.


As opposed to right-wing liberals.....


That must be one of the DSM-IV mental disorders that's yet to be named. :-)




Doug Kanter August 5th 03 07:51 PM

OT The Conservative Brain
 
"NOYB" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
thlink.net...


Great for Berkeley. However, this report was written by 4 left-wing
liberals from Berkeley's Graduate School of Education "Psychology"
Program...which ranks 45th in the nation by the way.


As opposed to right-wing liberals.....


That must be one of the DSM-IV mental disorders that's yet to be named.

:-)


Well, *YOU* combined the terms "left-wing" and "liberals", numbskull. You
must have the exact same disorder. Or, you managed to buy your way out of
English classes and thus cannot understand redundancy.




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