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#122
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"Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... Chuckie is spewing the typical brain dead liebral class warfare crap. The vast majority of people do not stay in one income bracket throughout their lives. Sounds a bit like "let them eat cake." No, it sounds like let's teach them to bake their own cake so that they can feed themselves. You are right about that. The middle class is going the way of the passenger pigeon. Yes, yes, a few of the former middle class are moving into the ranks of the privileged-(something to cheer about in the right wing) but most of the people leaving the middle class are worse off now than they were a decade ago. Then we need to do more to teach them how to work hard and earn more money so that they can move up the ladder rather than sliding down the ladder under the weight of good intentions. Watch what happens when the RE bubble bursts. All those folks with what they think is a huge asset (suburban McMansion) and almost no net worth (refinanced 2,3,4 times to sustain consumer spending in an environment where housing costs are soaring and wages are essentially flat). You think we've got po' folk now? Just wait. When the "RE bubble bursts" it will be a great oppourtunity to buy so that you can take advantage of the next bubble. Cycles, they keep repeating themselves. You have to make the money you have work harder for you. The lower my mortgage the more I can put into an 401K, Roth IRA, IRA or whatever else you choose to use as an investment vehicle. You guys know darn well what's on the horizon, and the recent changes making it almost impossible to declare a personal bankruptcy are an indicator. Some of these people will be working the rest of their lives to pay off the debt on a soon to be repossesed house Every time the darkness comes there will be sunlight next. The economic cycle is like that of the nights and days we experience. Sure, the reasoning advanced is often "When prices go down, we just won't sell. We'll wait a few years for them to come back up." Some people will have that luxury. Others will be forced to sell do to a medical emergency, job loss (or transfer), or other unforeseen event. When they put these heavily refi'd houses on the market and discover nobody is willing to pay enough to break them out of their indebtedness, there will be more examples of "people not remaining in a single economic class for an entire lifetime." How may times have you been laid off during your working career? I have been laid off four or five times and each time I have been able to find another job that paid me the same or more. There are winners and loosers in life and you have to work to be a winner, you can't sit around waiting for someone to give you the blue ribbon. Those houses dumped by the portion of the population "forced to sell" will further erode the fantasy wealth of people who believe they can hold as well as consume the same asset. It is an oppourtunity? Add a 1, or even a 2,3,or 4 on the left hand side of every house price in America. Nobody would be one cent better off if they are compelled to live in one of those houses. Corrections and adjustments are a part of economic life, live with it or move to Cuba. In Cuba you won't own anything so you don't have to worry about the price of houses. Chuckie is just showing his true (very liebral) nature. |
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#123
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Bert Robbins wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Chuckie is spewing the typical brain dead liebral class warfare crap. The vast majority of people do not stay in one income bracket throughout their lives. Sounds a bit like "let them eat cake." No, it sounds like let's teach them to bake their own cake so that they can feed themselves. You are right about that. The middle class is going the way of the passenger pigeon. Yes, yes, a few of the former middle class are moving into the ranks of the privileged-(something to cheer about in the right wing) but most of the people leaving the middle class are worse off now than they were a decade ago. Then we need to do more to teach them how to work hard and earn more money so that they can move up the ladder rather than sliding down the ladder under the weight of good intentions. Sounds very noble, but that flies in the face of a long-proven reality. The privileged class has a specific interest in maintaining or even increasing the number of poor and desperate people in this country while at the same time decreasing any public infrastructure or funding to relieve some of the hardships suffered by the poor. It's called labor force. We want lotsof people who will work as cheaply as possible. In fact, when our own poor people ask for a minimum wage job the privileged class declares minimum wage "too much" to pay and seeks out a foreign labor force even more poor, more desperate, and more willing to work for a handful of rice a day. It went on in the last great flood down south in the 20's, and it's still going on today. During the flood where VP Hoover served as the government emergency coordinator, there were several thousand people stranded on a levee. Times being as they were in the 20's, the government naturally evacuated all the white people first. When the government began evacuating the poor black folks on the levee, local business leaders pressured the administration to stop. They said that if the black people were even temporarily relocated, they would have a hard time rebuilding their agricultural labor force. In the end, an encampment of poor folks rose on that levee that was something like a mile and a half from end to end. The government hauled food out to them, but refused to take any of them off the levee. IIRC, it took a couple of weeks for the water to recede to where the poor people could get off on their own. Under your proposed social solution, perhpas we should have simply dropped a handful of lumber and a drawing of a raft onto the levee/island? The industrious folks could have built a raft and escaped- oh, but wait, no lumber and no drawing of a raft for these folks- it would have worked against the interests of the privileged class for any of these people to relocate out of the area. The economic value of somebody willing to or forced to work for only the tiniest fraction of the value produced in a work day is very high, and such an "asset" shouldn't be squandered. Times have changed, but human nature hasn't. It's tough to demand that somebody pull themselves up by the bootstraps when they don't even have any boots, let alone a pair with straps. |
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#124
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wrote in message ps.com... Bert Robbins wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Chuckie is spewing the typical brain dead liebral class warfare crap. The vast majority of people do not stay in one income bracket throughout their lives. Sounds a bit like "let them eat cake." No, it sounds like let's teach them to bake their own cake so that they can feed themselves. You are right about that. The middle class is going the way of the passenger pigeon. Yes, yes, a few of the former middle class are moving into the ranks of the privileged-(something to cheer about in the right wing) but most of the people leaving the middle class are worse off now than they were a decade ago. Then we need to do more to teach them how to work hard and earn more money so that they can move up the ladder rather than sliding down the ladder under the weight of good intentions. Sounds very noble, but that flies in the face of a long-proven reality. The privileged class has a specific interest in maintaining or even increasing the number of poor and desperate people in this country while at the same time decreasing any public infrastructure or funding to relieve some of the hardships suffered by the poor. It's called labor force. We want lotsof people who will work as cheaply as possible. In fact, when our own poor people ask for a minimum wage job the privileged class declares minimum wage "too much" to pay and seeks out a foreign labor force even more poor, more desperate, and more willing to work for a handful of rice a day. It went on in the last great flood down south in the 20's, and it's still going on today. During the flood where VP Hoover served as the government emergency coordinator, there were several thousand people stranded on a levee. Times being as they were in the 20's, the government naturally evacuated all the white people first. When the government began evacuating the poor black folks on the levee, local business leaders pressured the administration to stop. They said that if the black people were even temporarily relocated, they would have a hard time rebuilding their agricultural labor force. In the end, an encampment of poor folks rose on that levee that was something like a mile and a half from end to end. The government hauled food out to them, but refused to take any of them off the levee. IIRC, it took a couple of weeks for the water to recede to where the poor people could get off on their own. Under your proposed social solution, perhpas we should have simply dropped a handful of lumber and a drawing of a raft onto the levee/island? The industrious folks could have built a raft and escaped- oh, but wait, no lumber and no drawing of a raft for these folks- it would have worked against the interests of the privileged class for any of these people to relocate out of the area. The economic value of somebody willing to or forced to work for only the tiniest fraction of the value produced in a work day is very high, and such an "asset" shouldn't be squandered. Times have changed, but human nature hasn't. It's tough to demand that somebody pull themselves up by the bootstraps when they don't even have any boots, let alone a pair with straps. ========================== Sounds very noble, but that flies in the face of a long-proven reality. The privileged class has a specific interest in maintaining or even increasing the number of poor and desperate people in this country while at the same time decreasing any public infrastructure or funding to relieve some of the hardships suffered by the poor. ============================== What a crock of bull. Everyone has the opportunity for an education. Everyone. Those choosing not to take that road make that choice on their own. And if you decide to settle in life for a menial job, there are plenty out there offering far more than minimum wage. My daughter is making $10/hour at a part time job she has while attending OSU. My son made $9/hour painting houses as a summer job. Both jobs pay/paid well above minimum wage. |
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#125
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On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 07:13:30 -0700, chuckgould.chuck wrote:
. IIRC, it took a couple of weeks for the water to recede to where the poor people could get off on their own. Only to be conscripted to rebuild the levees, while Hoover, "The Great Humanitarian" becomes President. I wonder how many of those blacks, or their descendants, ended up in New Orleans. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/flood/t...timeline2.html |
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#126
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Chuck,
You are not only incorrect, but your premise flies in the face of common sense. It is in the interest of the privileged class to not only maintain the middle class but to increase the middle class. Who is going to buy the products and services offered by the privileged, if the middle class is not strong and growing. I think you might actually believe what you say, but there is no basis in logic or fact for your theories. wrote in message ps.com... Sounds very noble, but that flies in the face of a long-proven reality. The privileged class has a specific interest in maintaining or even increasing the number of poor and desperate people in this country while at the same time decreasing any public infrastructure or funding to relieve some of the hardships suffered by the poor. It's called labor force. We want lotsof people who will work as cheaply as possible. In fact, when our own poor people ask for a minimum wage job the privileged class declares minimum wage "too much" to pay and seeks out a foreign labor force even more poor, more desperate, and more willing to work for a handful of rice a day. It went on in the last great flood down south in the 20's, and it's still going on today. During the flood where VP Hoover served as the government emergency coordinator, there were several thousand people stranded on a levee. Times being as they were in the 20's, the government naturally evacuated all the white people first. When the government began evacuating the poor black folks on the levee, local business leaders pressured the administration to stop. They said that if the black people were even temporarily relocated, they would have a hard time rebuilding their agricultural labor force. In the end, an encampment of poor folks rose on that levee that was something like a mile and a half from end to end. The government hauled food out to them, but refused to take any of them off the levee. IIRC, it took a couple of weeks for the water to recede to where the poor people could get off on their own. Under your proposed social solution, perhpas we should have simply dropped a handful of lumber and a drawing of a raft onto the levee/island? The industrious folks could have built a raft and escaped- oh, but wait, no lumber and no drawing of a raft for these folks- it would have worked against the interests of the privileged class for any of these people to relocate out of the area. The economic value of somebody willing to or forced to work for only the tiniest fraction of the value produced in a work day is very high, and such an "asset" shouldn't be squandered. Times have changed, but human nature hasn't. It's tough to demand that somebody pull themselves up by the bootstraps when they don't even have any boots, let alone a pair with straps. |
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#127
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My son earns $10-$12 an hour, working part time while attending school.
This is not high skilled labor, just someone who can use basic knowledge and analytical skills to solve problems. "*JimH*" wrote in message ... wrote in message ps.com... Bert Robbins wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Chuckie is spewing the typical brain dead liebral class warfare crap. The vast majority of people do not stay in one income bracket throughout their lives. Sounds a bit like "let them eat cake." No, it sounds like let's teach them to bake their own cake so that they can feed themselves. You are right about that. The middle class is going the way of the passenger pigeon. Yes, yes, a few of the former middle class are moving into the ranks of the privileged-(something to cheer about in the right wing) but most of the people leaving the middle class are worse off now than they were a decade ago. Then we need to do more to teach them how to work hard and earn more money so that they can move up the ladder rather than sliding down the ladder under the weight of good intentions. Sounds very noble, but that flies in the face of a long-proven reality. The privileged class has a specific interest in maintaining or even increasing the number of poor and desperate people in this country while at the same time decreasing any public infrastructure or funding to relieve some of the hardships suffered by the poor. It's called labor force. We want lotsof people who will work as cheaply as possible. In fact, when our own poor people ask for a minimum wage job the privileged class declares minimum wage "too much" to pay and seeks out a foreign labor force even more poor, more desperate, and more willing to work for a handful of rice a day. It went on in the last great flood down south in the 20's, and it's still going on today. During the flood where VP Hoover served as the government emergency coordinator, there were several thousand people stranded on a levee. Times being as they were in the 20's, the government naturally evacuated all the white people first. When the government began evacuating the poor black folks on the levee, local business leaders pressured the administration to stop. They said that if the black people were even temporarily relocated, they would have a hard time rebuilding their agricultural labor force. In the end, an encampment of poor folks rose on that levee that was something like a mile and a half from end to end. The government hauled food out to them, but refused to take any of them off the levee. IIRC, it took a couple of weeks for the water to recede to where the poor people could get off on their own. Under your proposed social solution, perhpas we should have simply dropped a handful of lumber and a drawing of a raft onto the levee/island? The industrious folks could have built a raft and escaped- oh, but wait, no lumber and no drawing of a raft for these folks- it would have worked against the interests of the privileged class for any of these people to relocate out of the area. The economic value of somebody willing to or forced to work for only the tiniest fraction of the value produced in a work day is very high, and such an "asset" shouldn't be squandered. Times have changed, but human nature hasn't. It's tough to demand that somebody pull themselves up by the bootstraps when they don't even have any boots, let alone a pair with straps. ========================== Sounds very noble, but that flies in the face of a long-proven reality. The privileged class has a specific interest in maintaining or even increasing the number of poor and desperate people in this country while at the same time decreasing any public infrastructure or funding to relieve some of the hardships suffered by the poor. ============================== What a crock of bull. Everyone has the opportunity for an education. Everyone. Those choosing not to take that road make that choice on their own. And if you decide to settle in life for a menial job, there are plenty out there offering far more than minimum wage. My daughter is making $10/hour at a part time job she has while attending OSU. My son made $9/hour painting houses as a summer job. Both jobs pay/paid well above minimum wage. |
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#128
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Chuck,
I have always thought you made these posts, because you actually believed them, and Harry makes them for political gain. If you take some basic economic classes you will see where no businessman or privileged wants to decrease the middle class and wants to do everything to increase the middle class. The exporting of telemarketing jobs overseas is a perfect example of a businessmen making sure he is able to remain competitive and expand his business, hiring more US employees. When people go crazy about the changing job market, they remind me of those who were against upgrading the auto and manufacturing industries in the 50's and 60's. There were people who insisted this would be the downfall of the American Economy and all jobs would be filled with robots. There is a reason we don't have many buggy whip manufacturers today, the job market has changed. "Starbuck" wrote in message ... Chuck, You are not only incorrect, but your premise flies in the face of common sense. It is in the interest of the privileged class to not only maintain the middle class but to increase the middle class. Who is going to buy the products and services offered by the privileged, if the middle class is not strong and growing. I think you might actually believe what you say, but there is no basis in logic or fact for your theories. wrote in message ps.com... Sounds very noble, but that flies in the face of a long-proven reality. The privileged class has a specific interest in maintaining or even increasing the number of poor and desperate people in this country while at the same time decreasing any public infrastructure or funding to relieve some of the hardships suffered by the poor. It's called labor force. We want lotsof people who will work as cheaply as possible. In fact, when our own poor people ask for a minimum wage job the privileged class declares minimum wage "too much" to pay and seeks out a foreign labor force even more poor, more desperate, and more willing to work for a handful of rice a day. It went on in the last great flood down south in the 20's, and it's still going on today. During the flood where VP Hoover served as the government emergency coordinator, there were several thousand people stranded on a levee. Times being as they were in the 20's, the government naturally evacuated all the white people first. When the government began evacuating the poor black folks on the levee, local business leaders pressured the administration to stop. They said that if the black people were even temporarily relocated, they would have a hard time rebuilding their agricultural labor force. In the end, an encampment of poor folks rose on that levee that was something like a mile and a half from end to end. The government hauled food out to them, but refused to take any of them off the levee. IIRC, it took a couple of weeks for the water to recede to where the poor people could get off on their own. Under your proposed social solution, perhpas we should have simply dropped a handful of lumber and a drawing of a raft onto the levee/island? The industrious folks could have built a raft and escaped- oh, but wait, no lumber and no drawing of a raft for these folks- it would have worked against the interests of the privileged class for any of these people to relocate out of the area. The economic value of somebody willing to or forced to work for only the tiniest fraction of the value produced in a work day is very high, and such an "asset" shouldn't be squandered. Times have changed, but human nature hasn't. It's tough to demand that somebody pull themselves up by the bootstraps when they don't even have any boots, let alone a pair with straps. |
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#129
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wrote in message ps.com... Bert Robbins wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Chuckie is spewing the typical brain dead liebral class warfare crap. The vast majority of people do not stay in one income bracket throughout their lives. Sounds a bit like "let them eat cake." No, it sounds like let's teach them to bake their own cake so that they can feed themselves. You are right about that. The middle class is going the way of the passenger pigeon. Yes, yes, a few of the former middle class are moving into the ranks of the privileged-(something to cheer about in the right wing) but most of the people leaving the middle class are worse off now than they were a decade ago. Then we need to do more to teach them how to work hard and earn more money so that they can move up the ladder rather than sliding down the ladder under the weight of good intentions. Sounds very noble, but that flies in the face of a long-proven reality. The privileged class has a specific interest in maintaining or even increasing the number of poor and desperate people in this country while at the same time decreasing any public infrastructure or funding to relieve some of the hardships suffered by the poor. It's called labor force. We want lotsof people who will work as cheaply as possible. In fact, when our own poor people ask for a minimum wage job the privileged class declares minimum wage "too much" to pay and seeks out a foreign labor force even more poor, more desperate, and more willing to work for a handful of rice a day. Spoken like a true liberal/progressive. Why are you so negative? It appears that you never have a positive thing to say! It went on in the last great flood down south in the 20's, and it's still going on today. During the flood where VP Hoover served as the government emergency coordinator, there were several thousand people stranded on a levee. Times being as they were in the 20's, the government naturally evacuated all the white people first. When the government began evacuating the poor black folks on the levee, local business leaders pressured the administration to stop. They said that if the black people were even temporarily relocated, they would have a hard time rebuilding their agricultural labor force. In the end, an encampment of poor folks rose on that levee that was something like a mile and a half from end to end. The government hauled food out to them, but refused to take any of them off the levee. IIRC, it took a couple of weeks for the water to recede to where the poor people could get off on their own. Remind me again about who the dominate political force was in the south after the Civil War up until the Republicans passed Johnson's Civil Rights bill? Who were the prominant Democrats that were against the Civil Rights bill? Gore, Fullbright, Byrd...the list goes on and on and on. Under your proposed social solution, perhpas we should have simply dropped a handful of lumber and a drawing of a raft onto the levee/island? The industrious folks could have built a raft and escaped- oh, but wait, no lumber and no drawing of a raft for these folks- it would have worked against the interests of the privileged class for any of these people to relocate out of the area. The economic value of somebody willing to or forced to work for only the tiniest fraction of the value produced in a work day is very high, and such an "asset" shouldn't be squandered. My propsed solution is to teach people how to do for themselves rather than relying upon someone else to gie them a handout. You and your ilk want to keep them dependent upon the government. Times have changed, but human nature hasn't. The Republican partyhas changed quite dramatically in the last 80 years while the Democratic party It's tough to demand that somebody pull themselves up by the bootstraps when they don't even have any boots, let alone a pair with straps. Stop whining and start doing. If you aren't going to help out and solve the problem then get out of the way of people that do want to help solve the problem. |
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#130
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"*JimH*" wrote in message ... wrote in message ps.com... Bert Robbins wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Chuckie is spewing the typical brain dead liebral class warfare crap. The vast majority of people do not stay in one income bracket throughout their lives. Sounds a bit like "let them eat cake." No, it sounds like let's teach them to bake their own cake so that they can feed themselves. You are right about that. The middle class is going the way of the passenger pigeon. Yes, yes, a few of the former middle class are moving into the ranks of the privileged-(something to cheer about in the right wing) but most of the people leaving the middle class are worse off now than they were a decade ago. Then we need to do more to teach them how to work hard and earn more money so that they can move up the ladder rather than sliding down the ladder under the weight of good intentions. Sounds very noble, but that flies in the face of a long-proven reality. The privileged class has a specific interest in maintaining or even increasing the number of poor and desperate people in this country while at the same time decreasing any public infrastructure or funding to relieve some of the hardships suffered by the poor. It's called labor force. We want lotsof people who will work as cheaply as possible. In fact, when our own poor people ask for a minimum wage job the privileged class declares minimum wage "too much" to pay and seeks out a foreign labor force even more poor, more desperate, and more willing to work for a handful of rice a day. It went on in the last great flood down south in the 20's, and it's still going on today. During the flood where VP Hoover served as the government emergency coordinator, there were several thousand people stranded on a levee. Times being as they were in the 20's, the government naturally evacuated all the white people first. When the government began evacuating the poor black folks on the levee, local business leaders pressured the administration to stop. They said that if the black people were even temporarily relocated, they would have a hard time rebuilding their agricultural labor force. In the end, an encampment of poor folks rose on that levee that was something like a mile and a half from end to end. The government hauled food out to them, but refused to take any of them off the levee. IIRC, it took a couple of weeks for the water to recede to where the poor people could get off on their own. Under your proposed social solution, perhpas we should have simply dropped a handful of lumber and a drawing of a raft onto the levee/island? The industrious folks could have built a raft and escaped- oh, but wait, no lumber and no drawing of a raft for these folks- it would have worked against the interests of the privileged class for any of these people to relocate out of the area. The economic value of somebody willing to or forced to work for only the tiniest fraction of the value produced in a work day is very high, and such an "asset" shouldn't be squandered. Times have changed, but human nature hasn't. It's tough to demand that somebody pull themselves up by the bootstraps when they don't even have any boots, let alone a pair with straps. ========================== Sounds very noble, but that flies in the face of a long-proven reality. The privileged class has a specific interest in maintaining or even increasing the number of poor and desperate people in this country while at the same time decreasing any public infrastructure or funding to relieve some of the hardships suffered by the poor. ============================== What a crock of bull. Everyone has the opportunity for an education. Everyone. Those choosing not to take that road make that choice on their own. And if you decide to settle in life for a menial job, there are plenty out there offering far more than minimum wage. My daughter is making $10/hour at a part time job she has while attending OSU. My son made $9/hour painting houses as a summer job. Both jobs pay/paid well above minimum wage. Chuckie is just your typical socialist liebral that wants equal outcome not equal opportunity......regardless of the cost. |
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