whoring, you done be had. hope you enjoyed it, even if you do walk a little
for a few days.



From: JohnH
Date: 9/17/2004 1:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:49:10 -0400, "Gene Kearns"
wrote:

On 15 Sep 2004 12:26:41 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

2) It serves as a shock absorber, helping to absorb the boat's movement
due
to the wave action.

you obviously do not understand the mathematics of catenaries. NOBODY
chains a
boat to a dock, or a rock on shore.


Nobody needs the properties of a catenary at a dock, either. Nobody
makes a big deal about creating a catenary, when tying to a dock.
Nobody in their right mind would even mention such a stupid and
unrelated concept, if they were trying to make a logical argument.

It doesn't take much of a wind to pull chain tight enough to be considered
zero
point zero zero zero zero zero three seven three of a shocker absorber.

Stoopid, stoopid, stoopid.

The intrinsic shape of a catenary is the shock absorber. Once the
shape of the catenary has been pulled tight enough for the resultant
to become a line, all holding power is pretty much lost, as the
vertical component on the anchor increases. At that point, by
definition, we aren't talking about catenaries, anyway.

So, which is easier to pull tight, a line catenary or a chain
catenary?

Here is a URL that will conclusively... and mathematically, prove that
Jax doesn't have a clue what he is talking about..... and, moreover,
that he is just plain wrong (again). This website includes a snappy
macro driven spread sheet that will work out nearly any what-if you
could ever imagine concerning line, chain, scope, tension, etc., etc.,
etc. It really *is* neat....

http://alain.fraysse.free.fr/sail/ro...ic/sta_hom.htm

Wow. Great site. Thanks.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

whoring, for what it is worth, you couldn't tell the difference.


Date: 9/18/2004 9:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 18 Sep 2004 03:43:41 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

whoring, you done be had. hope you enjoyed it, even if you do walk a little
for a few days.



From: JohnH
Date: 9/17/2004 1:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:49:10 -0400, "Gene Kearns"
wrote:

On 15 Sep 2004 12:26:41 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

2) It serves as a shock absorber, helping to absorb the boat's movement
due
to the wave action.

you obviously do not understand the mathematics of catenaries. NOBODY
chains a
boat to a dock, or a rock on shore.


Nobody needs the properties of a catenary at a dock, either. Nobody
makes a big deal about creating a catenary, when tying to a dock.
Nobody in their right mind would even mention such a stupid and
unrelated concept, if they were trying to make a logical argument.

It doesn't take much of a wind to pull chain tight enough to be
considered
zero
point zero zero zero zero zero three seven three of a shocker absorber.

Stoopid, stoopid, stoopid.

The intrinsic shape of a catenary is the shock absorber. Once the
shape of the catenary has been pulled tight enough for the resultant
to become a line, all holding power is pretty much lost, as the
vertical component on the anchor increases. At that point, by
definition, we aren't talking about catenaries, anyway.

So, which is easier to pull tight, a line catenary or a chain
catenary?

Here is a URL that will conclusively... and mathematically, prove that
Jax doesn't have a clue what he is talking about..... and, moreover,
that he is just plain wrong (again). This website includes a snappy
macro driven spread sheet that will work out nearly any what-if you
could ever imagine concerning line, chain, scope, tension, etc., etc.,
etc. It really *is* neat....

http://alain.fraysse.free.fr/sail/ro...ic/sta_hom.htm

Wow. Great site. Thanks.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

Jax, for what it's worth, I value your opinion about as much as that of
Krause.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

JAXAshby wrote:
whoring, for what it is worth, you couldn't tell the difference.



Oohhh...

John Whoring.

Great!


You don't mind if I borrow that one, eh?


--
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to!

spell it any way you want, you still do not have any idea what it is.

yo-yo, a string strung between two points has, and always has, a catenary. go
look it up.

Gene Kearns
Date: 9/18/2004 2:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 18 Sep 2004 03:42:02 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

genie, knock it off. you are a mechanic on twenty year aircraft engines of
seventy year old engine designs. what you know about catenaries wouldn't
fill
a plastic coffee stirrer spoon from Mickey D's.


I don't know about that.... at least I have taught you to *spell* the
word correctly... you haven't spelled "caternary" once. That's nice.
Actually is seems to indicate that you can be trained... at some
level. I still haven't made any progress in teaching you the math and
physics of the function, though. I don't feel bad, though, you never
learned it during all those years of high school, either...

Now, take your crayons and try to draw, to your own satisfaction of
course, how one uses catenaries to make fast to the dock. If you want
to make construction paper cutouts to help, do let mommy or daddy in
the white coat get the round pointed scissors, ok?

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

whoring, once you lose sight of a trick, you lose sight of anthing real.

try again, this time without anything in your mouth.

From: JohnH
Date: 9/18/2004 8:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 18 Sep 2004 23:14:45 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

a way to simplified look at it is to consider the chain/rode/line to have
zero
weight pulled between two points (say 100 feet apart), then hang a 1#
weight
in
the center point and check how much strain it put on the end points when
the
weight hangs 20 feet, then 10 feet, then 5 feet, then 1 foot, then 1 inch,
then
1/10th inch. Just use trig to figure the forces.

So what would the forces be using your example?

I don't have a trig calc handy, but do this. divide 50 feet by 20 feet,
then
10 feet, then 5 feet, then 1 foot, then 1 inch, then 1/10th inch. that will
give you the tangent of each angle.

look up each tangent, then divide each number into 1#. that will give you
the
#'s force on the end points of the line.

a catenary is worse and much, much, much more difficult to calculate, but
the
above will give you an idea of the HUGE forces involved once the chain
starts
to pull tight

50/20=2.5
50/10=5
50/5=10
50/1=50
50/1/12=600
50/1/120=6000

If each of these are divided into 1, the results would be, respectively:
0.4
0.2
0.1
0.02
0.001666...
0.0001666...

These numbers don't look so big. Could you have made an error?


John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

clown, check the meaning of the word.

Gene Kearns
Date: 9/18/2004 7:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 18 Sep 2004 20:49:57 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

spell it any way you want, you still do not have any idea what it is.

yo-yo, a string strung between two points has, and always has, a catenary.
go
look it up.

And a yo-yo is about the depth of your comprehension, here....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

Where is the catenary on a yo-yo hanging from a finger? It is a line
between 2 points.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
clown, check the meaning of the word.

Gene Kearns
Date: 9/18/2004 7:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 18 Sep 2004 20:49:57 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

spell it any way you want, you still do not have any idea what it is.

yo-yo, a string strung between two points has, and always has, a
catenary.
go
look it up.

And a yo-yo is about the depth of your comprehension, here....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/
Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where
Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

no.

Where is the catenary on a yo-yo hanging from a finger? It is a line
between 2 points.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
clown, check the meaning of the word.

Gene Kearns
Date: 9/18/2004 7:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 18 Sep 2004 20:49:57 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

spell it any way you want, you still do not have any idea what it is.

yo-yo, a string strung between two points has, and always has, a
catenary.
go
look it up.

And a yo-yo is about the depth of your comprehension, here....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/
Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where
Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

genie, shut up.

Subject: Why need anchor chain?
From: Gene Kearns
Date: 9/18/2004 7:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 18 Sep 2004 21:15:33 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

What happens during the interaction of forces on the rode would be
most fascinating.

a way to simplified look at it is to consider the chain/rode/line to have
zero
weight pulled between two points (say 100 feet apart), then hang a 1# weight
in
the center point and check how much strain it put on the end points when the
weight hangs 20 feet, then 10 feet, then 5 feet, then 1 foot, then 1 inch,
then
1/10th inch. Just use trig to figure the forces.

So.... we just used intuitive trig to figure out why (1) we use scope
with an anchor and (2) why we don't tie boats to the dock with chain.
Now *that* is some real science......

And your "simplified look" does not apply.... an anchor rode does not
employ both ends at the same "Y" value.... therefore assumptions of
Y=Y'=0 do not obtain and is, therefore, the root cause of your lack
of understanding in this area. There isn't *anything* *attached* to
the middle.


the forces get out of hand ********VERY******** quickly. Even worse, is
that
the weight in the middle (or chain) has momentum as the boat rocks, so the
"natural" position of the weight overshoots and makes for seriously high
g-loads.


There is no weight "in the middle" (other than the weight of the rode)
.... so you put two anchors on the same rode? Odd.

Using that concept, most people use kellets and think it is a good and
useful idea.

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
genie, shut up.

Subject: Why need anchor chain?
From: Gene Kearns
Date: 9/18/2004 7:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 18 Sep 2004 21:15:33 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

What happens during the interaction of forces on the rode would be
most fascinating.

a way to simplified look at it is to consider the chain/rode/line to
have
zero
weight pulled between two points (say 100 feet apart), then hang a 1#
weight
in
the center point and check how much strain it put on the end points when
the
weight hangs 20 feet, then 10 feet, then 5 feet, then 1 foot, then 1
inch,
then
1/10th inch. Just use trig to figure the forces.

So.... we just used intuitive trig to figure out why (1) we use scope
with an anchor and (2) why we don't tie boats to the dock with chain.
Now *that* is some real science......

And your "simplified look" does not apply.... an anchor rode does not
employ both ends at the same "Y" value.... therefore assumptions of
Y=Y'=0 do not obtain and is, therefore, the root cause of your lack
of understanding in this area. There isn't *anything* *attached* to
the middle.


the forces get out of hand ********VERY******** quickly. Even worse, is
that
the weight in the middle (or chain) has momentum as the boat rocks, so
the
"natural" position of the weight overshoots and makes for seriously high
g-loads.


There is no weight "in the middle" (other than the weight of the rode)
.... so you put two anchors on the same rode? Odd.

Using that concept, most people use kellets and think it is a good and
useful idea.



http://www.johnsboatstuff.com/Articles/anchor.htm

" Having a lot of sag in the rode reduces shock loads "

Isn't that what started this whole argument? Anchor chain introduces sag in
the rode. Sag in the rode reduces shock loads. So I guess I was right when
I said that anchor chain acts as a shock absorber, eh jaxie?