Harry Krause wrote in message ...
Backyard Renegade wrote:

" Tuuk" wrote in message ...
Harry, do you know how many thousands of lives have been saved?

Harry could care less, he is just here to deflect Jim from having to
answer Johns question which was, something like "could he note one
time when pilots were told to go and bomb innocent folks". Of course
he could not and that is what is problematic of the Democratic party
in general, they will run with any lie if they think it will help them
fool the uninformed...


The two of you together can't count to 20 without using your toes and
fingers, so tell me...how many thousands of lives have been saved by
whatever activity you are claiming saved them.

Be definitive. You asked for a specific answer; you ought to be prepared
to give one. And don't forget to offer proof of your answer.

OK, definitive bitch... PLEASE SHOW US PROOF THAT AMERICANS PILOTS
WERE TOLD TO "DROP BOMBS ON UNDEFENDED IRAQUI VILLAGES"! Is that
definitive enough. You are a liar and a shill, that is why you will
never answer any direct questions. I seriously can't imagine making my
living by ****ing american workers but then again, my dad was not a
drunken, wife beating, theif... Yes Harry, some folks around CT do
remember your family...

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:03:21 -0500 (EST), "Harry Krause"
wrote:

Backyard Renegade wrote:



OK, definitive bitch... PLEASE SHOW US PROOF THAT AMERICANS PILOTS
WERE TOLD TO "DROP BOMBS ON UNDEFENDED IRAQUI VILLAGES"!

American pilots were told to drop bombs and fire rockets in areas
populated by non-combatant civilians, just as American ground troups
were told to shell areas populated by non-combatant civilians. Why does
this surprise you? And yes, I am aware that Saddam and others like
Saddam populate the locales of likely targets with civilian housing and
shopping areas. But, then, so do we. Visit Capital Hill in the DC area,
and you will not only find the halls of Congress and the Supreme Court,
but the housing of thousands of DC residents.

If US troops are told to bomb or shell areas in which civilians live,
then are basically being told to "drop bombs on undefended Iraqi
villages," or the equivalent thereof.

When all your military does is take on piddling third-world forces, you
are always going to be "the victor" and your forces will not be subject
to prosecution on charges of war crimes. At some point in its future,
the United States will come across an adversary that is capable of
fighting back, and fighting back hard, and the outcome may not be so
assured. If the United States happens to lose against that adversary,
and if numbers of its pilots or troops are captured, those folks may
well indeed face charges of war crimes for their activities, whether
real or not.

I doubt you understand any of this, because, sadly, you are as dumb as a
post.


Is that
definitive enough. You are a liar and a shill, that is why you will
never answer any direct questions.

Very few of your direct questions make any sense, and they are so
overlayed in your drunken invective, they are hard to find. Perhaps you
ought to limit your commentaries to your experience with homophobia and
child abuse.


I seriously can't imagine making my
living by ****ing american workers but then again, my dad was not a
drunken, wife beating, theif... Yes Harry, some folks around CT do
remember your family...


If you are implying my father was any of those things, you're just
proving what a lying low-life you are. My suspicion is that you are
projecting your own life's shortcomings onto others. It would not
surprise me to learn you are a drunk who beats his wife and children,
steals from his neighbors and who is well-known to the police as a sex
offender.

Have a nice day...


Sounds like he's got your number, Harry. You know very well that your
implications are bull****, so I won't address them.

Tell us about your family, though. Maybe that would explain some of
the garbage you post.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:53:57 -0500, Jim wrote:



John H wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500, Jim wrote:


In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of
aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme
international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it
contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse
for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the
Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been
told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their
leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the
sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi
villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle
room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes

from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to

the oil oligarchy.

What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When
does it descend in all its ominous power?
"The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate
intensity." (Yeats)


Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he
was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do
so?

Tokyo and Dresden to name 2 cities that were firebombed in WW2. NEither
had military importance, and Thousands of civilians were killed. The
bombing of Hanoi was indiscriminate


I thought not. Now, what is the rest of your post worth?

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

The thread was about Iraq. You must have missed that.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

Quoting your question

"Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he
was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so?"

The stats aren't in yet on Iraq, but why do you think we would change
tactics?


John H wrote:
On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:53:57 -0500, Jim wrote:



John H wrote:

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500, Jim wrote:



In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of
aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme
international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it
contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse
for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the
Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been
told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their
leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the
sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi
villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle
room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes

from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to


the oil oligarchy.

What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When
does it descend in all its ominous power?
"The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate
intensity." (Yeats)


Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he
was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do
so?

Tokyo and Dresden to name 2 cities that were firebombed in WW2. NEither
had military importance, and Thousands of civilians were killed. The
bombing of Hanoi was indiscriminate


I thought not. Now, what is the rest of your post worth?

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!


The thread was about Iraq. You must have missed that.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On 1 Mar 2004 05:30:53 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message hlink.net...
Actually they give them descriptions also. I have a copy of an AC130 tape
and they tell them make sure they do not hit the square (or rectangle - one
of the 2) building it is a mosque. So they are also careful. I would post
it, but at about 2mb is way too big.
Bill

Oh, please do. I'd LOVE to hear it.

It's all over the web. Just do a google search on "ac-130 gunship
video"

Steve

Google "Iraq +rules of engagement"

Couple of extracts

************
Since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein in April, the military has
announced several inquiries into alleged transgressions by its forces in
the war-ravaged country. Few verdicts have been reported and almost all
of those have exonerated the soldiers.

“No one feels safe in Iraq now and not a day goes by without more
civilians being killed or injured by US soldiers or by armed groups
amidst total impunity,” human rights group Amnesty International told
AFP on Friday.
************************
BAGHDAD, Iraq – The U.S. military said Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez,
responding to a question Thursday about the Sept. 12 friendly fire
deaths of eight Iraqi policemen and a Jordanian guard in Fallujah, gave
a response about an earlier killing of two Iraqi policemen by American
forces in the same city.

Sanchez, commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, said the military
investigation showed no misconduct in the incident.

"The initial findings are that the soldiers acted within the construct
of the military's rules of engagement," he told reporters.

The Associated Press reported that Sanchez was talking about a Sept. 12
shooting involving the 82nd Airborne Division.
***********************************

IT is even debateable that the showing og Sadam in captivity, and
particularly his dead sons violated the Geneva convention. For an
interesting discussion see
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/te...ners_3-23.html



John H wrote:
On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:53:57 -0500, Jim wrote:



John H wrote:

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500, Jim wrote:



In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of
aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme
international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it
contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse
for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the
Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been
told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their
leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the
sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi
villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle
room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes

from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to


the oil oligarchy.

What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When
does it descend in all its ominous power?
"The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate
intensity." (Yeats)


Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he
was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do
so?

Tokyo and Dresden to name 2 cities that were firebombed in WW2. NEither
had military importance, and Thousands of civilians were killed. The
bombing of Hanoi was indiscriminate


I thought not. Now, what is the rest of your post worth?

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!


The thread was about Iraq. You must have missed that.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

Steven Shelikoff wrote:

On 1 Mar 2004 05:30:53 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message hlink.net...
Actually they give them descriptions also. I have a copy of an AC130 tape
and they tell them make sure they do not hit the square (or rectangle - one
of the 2) building it is a mosque. So they are also careful. I would post
it, but at about 2mb is way too big.
Bill

Oh, please do. I'd LOVE to hear it.

It's all over the web. Just do a google search on "ac-130 gunship
video"

Steve

Where are the videos kept of the civilian targets hit by "accident"? Do
the AF flacks release those, too?

We really don't give a rat's ass, Jim. The other side doesn't abide by any
rules, and we sure as hell shouldn't.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Steven Shelikoff wrote:

On 1 Mar 2004 05:30:53 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Actually they give them descriptions also. I have a copy of an AC130
tape
and they tell them make sure they do not hit the square (or
rectangle - one
of the 2) building it is a mosque. So they are also careful. I would
post
it, but at about 2mb is way too big.
Bill

Oh, please do. I'd LOVE to hear it.

It's all over the web. Just do a google search on "ac-130 gunship
video"

Steve

Where are the videos kept of the civilian targets hit by "accident"? Do
the AF flacks release those, too?

In the Middle East, there are terrorists, soon-to-be terrorists, mother's of
terrorists, and mothers of soon-to-be terrorists. Who exactly are the
civilians?

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:05:04 -0500, Jim wrote:

Google "Iraq +rules of engagement"

Couple of extracts

************
Since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein in April, the military has
announced several inquiries into alleged transgressions by its forces in
the war-ravaged country. Few verdicts have been reported and almost all
of those have exonerated the soldiers.

“No one feels safe in Iraq now and not a day goes by without more
civilians being killed or injured by US soldiers or by armed groups
amidst total impunity,” human rights group Amnesty International told
AFP on Friday.
************************
BAGHDAD, Iraq – The U.S. military said Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez,
responding to a question Thursday about the Sept. 12 friendly fire
deaths of eight Iraqi policemen and a Jordanian guard in Fallujah, gave
a response about an earlier killing of two Iraqi policemen by American
forces in the same city.

Sanchez, commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, said the military
investigation showed no misconduct in the incident.

"The initial findings are that the soldiers acted within the construct
of the military's rules of engagement," he told reporters.

The Associated Press reported that Sanchez was talking about a Sept. 12
shooting involving the 82nd Airborne Division.
***********************************

IT is even debateable that the showing og Sadam in captivity, and
particularly his dead sons violated the Geneva convention. For an
interesting discussion see

I am just totally ****ing worried to death about the violation of
Saddam's rights!

I suppose you think the Tomahawk missile sent to Osama's suspected
hideout in Afghanistan (by Clinton) was a violation of Osama's rights.

I just don't give a rat's ass.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!