Thanks to John & Mark for 'enlightening' Tuuk.
I have a number of cousins who are teachers and they are all decent,
hardworking individuals who care for their charges.
When our skipper was going out with a teacher, we sometimes would have 4 or
5 with us as sailing crew. They were great to have on board, and all seemed
to care a great deal about the state of our education system.
A lack of resources and support from administrators & some parents seemed to
be the problem area.
When my boys were in grade school, the 'holistic approach was all the rage.
Certain parents also sued for the right for their disruptive, mentally
handicapped children to attend regular school with their age peers and there
is also a reluctance to 'fail' students...so quite often they are passed on
without actually passing the grade they left.
I wonder if all this contributed to our lower scores in my province?


Mark Browne wrote in message
news:Xv60c.141487$jk2.569081@attbi_s53...

" Tuuk" wrote in message
...




"'"What is there about the educational system in the East that you find
so enticing? Could it be that the students get 'tracked' into a
university or vocational track early on? Would this concept cause
parents to be interested in the educational process? "'"

What impressed me the most was at the universities I visited in some
Asian
countries their ability to control the student and obtain respect.
Students
there enjoyed going to school all year round, only had October off so
there
was much more time spent in the learning environment for the student.
Students were required dress codes or uniforms, and that learning
environment was under the control of the teacher or professor. No first
name
basis as with professor/student relationships here, always addressed
with
respect.
Your very right about the "dumbing down" the programs here. There they
are
forced to learn, if they do not pass their required measurement tests,
they
will repeat.
I had a student I helped and was looking over their report card, I had
to
mention the number of B or C+ they had. The student laughed at me and
stated
that over there they are not given their A's like they are over here.
Every
international student I know over here is doing circles around our
domestic
student.
Not just the difference in the student is what I admire about their
education system, it is also the difference in the educator's attitude
or
mission. There it is more focus on the student. Here the educator is
more
focused on themselves today. It is all about the teacher. Especially at
the
high school or middle school levels. Its all about money, less work
time,
less class time, less activity time and this all harms the student. In
Ontario for example, they have a big crunch of financials trickling
downwards towards everyone and including the teachers, how the school
systems "re-engineered" was to keep their remunerations the same if not
add
more, reduce their hours, took away money for new books and trips and
after
hour sports. Now the schools are forcing the students to go door to door
after school to sell chocolate bars to raise money. The money these kids
earn selling chocolate bars goes to fund the teachers, not new books and
not
trips like they used to.
An entire different focus, there in the East, the focus is genuinely
geared
towards the student and the students success, here it is the job of the
teachers that is the focus and the students are going backwards and it
is
embarrassing globally. Of course the students there wish to come here to
finish grad degrees because they believe it may lead to a job here in
the
west, which would mean better money, but they all laugh and say that the
grad degree here is a joke. Not to mention the difference in costs.
snip

Tuuk,

I have to agree with the bulk of your observations. The difference between
education and cultures in the east and west includes a few things you did
not mention.

When I train engineers in the east I notice a curious difference in the
students.

It is true that they are chock-full of facts. I have been astounded from
time to time at the ready grasp they have on a depth and breadth of
concepts.

It is equally true that they are profoundly lacking in troubleshooting
skills. I have been asked for the "troubleshooting procedure" in several
countries. This is from trained engineers who have attended more years of
post-secondary education then I have. The failure of creative combination
and application of facts seems to be the source of the problem.

The only conclusion I can come to is that they have become good at
memorizing and repeating facts, but not in learning how to apply them.

If there really is anything to my observations, it would go a long way
towards explaining why you don't see a lot of new inventions coming out of
Asia. What you *do* see is very methodical refinements of inventions
created
in the west. The chaotic and undisciplined western students do have
certain
creative advantages over the hardworking Asian students.

There is hope for the Asian schooled student - attending universities in
the
USA does loosen a few up to new ways of thinking. Perhaps it provides the
best of both worlds!

I am not surprised that you would personally align yourself to the party
that does not value questioning of the "facts" presented by authority
figures. It seems part and parcel of the Asian mentality.

Have a nice day.

Mark Browne