On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 09:02:40 -0500, " Tuuk"
wrote:





"'"What is there about the educational system in the East that you find
so enticing? Could it be that the students get 'tracked' into a
university or vocational track early on? Would this concept cause
parents to be interested in the educational process? "'"

What impressed me the most was at the universities I visited in some Asian
countries their ability to control the student and obtain respect. Students
there enjoyed going to school all year round, only had October off so there
was much more time spent in the learning environment for the student.
Students were required dress codes or uniforms, and that learning
environment was under the control of the teacher or professor. No first name
basis as with professor/student relationships here, always addressed with
respect.
Your very right about the "dumbing down" the programs here. There they are
forced to learn, if they do not pass their required measurement tests, they
will repeat.
I had a student I helped and was looking over their report card, I had to
mention the number of B or C+ they had. The student laughed at me and stated
that over there they are not given their A's like they are over here. Every
international student I know over here is doing circles around our domestic
student.
Not just the difference in the student is what I admire about their
education system, it is also the difference in the educator's attitude or
mission. There it is more focus on the student. Here the educator is more
focused on themselves today. It is all about the teacher. Especially at the
high school or middle school levels. Its all about money, less work time,
less class time, less activity time and this all harms the student. In
Ontario for example, they have a big crunch of financials trickling
downwards towards everyone and including the teachers, how the school
systems "re-engineered" was to keep their remunerations the same if not add
more, reduce their hours, took away money for new books and trips and after
hour sports. Now the schools are forcing the students to go door to door
after school to sell chocolate bars to raise money. The money these kids
earn selling chocolate bars goes to fund the teachers, not new books and not
trips like they used to.
An entire different focus, there in the East, the focus is genuinely geared
towards the student and the students success, here it is the job of the
teachers that is the focus and the students are going backwards and it is
embarrassing globally. Of course the students there wish to come here to
finish grad degrees because they believe it may lead to a job here in the
west, which would mean better money, but they all laugh and say that the
grad degree here is a joke. Not to mention the difference in costs.


In your discussion, are you referring to university teachers or
middle- and high school teachers. The two groups are not comparable,
and I cannot comment on the workload or qualifications of university
level teachers/professors. The one I remember most was my math
professor, Dr. Hartley, who did very little work. He made it clear
that we were old enough to learn for ourselves, and he busted our
butts with homework.

Secondly, are you referring to public or private schools? Have you
ever been a middle or high school teacher in a public school? I taught
for ten years in a public secondary (middle and high) school. Our
biggest complaints were class size and discipline problems. Students
did have a magazine drive, but the money sure didn't go into teachers'
pockets. It was used for computers, printers, and various supplies.
When you make statements like, "It's all about money, less work time,
less class time...," I get the idea you've never taught.

I retired from the Army, went to school, and became a teacher. I was
totally impressed with 95% of the teachers with whom I worked. Yes,
maybe one out of twenty had an attitude problem. Perhaps it is that 5%
you have in mind with all your negative comments.

Japanese teachers are very well paid, as compared to American
teachers. Here is a quote from an Indiana University web site about
the Japanese educational system:

"Many American public high schools are comprehensive. While there are
a few comprehensive high schools in Japan, they are not popular.
Between 75 and 80 percent of all Japanese students enroll in
university preparation tracks. Most university-bound students attend
separate academic high schools while students who definitely do not
plan on higher education attend separate commercial or industrial high
schools. In the United States, students enter secondary schools based
on either school district assignment or personal choice. In Japan, the
overwhelming majority of students are admitted to both high school and
university primarily based upon entrance examination performance. The
best Japanese high schools and universities require high entrance
examination scores.

Notice the last two sentences in the above paragraph. Japanese
students are admitted to high schools based on entrance examinations.
This means that the years leading up to this examination are very
important in determining the educational (and employment) future of
the student. It also means that parents are extremely concerned with
their children's performance in elementary and middle schools! The
system is very similar in Germany. In order to get into a 'state'
sponsored university they must have gone to a high school which is
'university tracked' as opposed to 'vocational tracked'.

We have nothing like this in the US. Here we give everyone 'equal
access' to everything, and it hurts the educational process
tremendously.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!