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Harry Krause wrote:
Jim Carter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote:
"Inuit" people of the far north, is like calling a black man the " N " word.

No, I didn't know that. Noted. Thanks. I would spell it Innuit, though.

Except... that isn't true. (Innuit is an older spelling that has
lost favor to Inuit since development of a modern orthography.)

Are you sure about this? Because "Eskimo" is a native American
word of Algonquian origins:

That is true, but what follows has been known wrong for 25 years
or so. I makes a good story, so everyone remembers it, and good
stories die hard.

("EskIm@U) [a. Da. Eskimo (Sw. Eskimå), ad. F. Esquimaux pl.,
from some Algonquian Indian language; cf. Proto-Algonquian *a_k-
raw, *-imo eat, Abnaki askimo (pl. askimoak), Eskimo, eaters of
raw flesh.]

Actually there are two lines of thought on what it means. Ives
Goddard (at the Smithsonian, and a linguist who studies Algonquian
language) says it means "snowshoe netters". I've never seen his
justification for that, but it is becoming the popular etymology.

However, Jose Mailhot, an anthropologist from Quebec (who
publishes in French, and is therefore little known in the US or
on the Internet) who speaks fluent Cree did a definitive study
some years back. No part of the study has ever been refuted, so
I tend to accept it as fact. She says it simply means "people
who speak a different langauge".

Mailhot, Jose, L'etymologie de *esquimau' revuew et
corrigee. In: Etudes/Inuit/Studies 2(2): 59-69.

See http://linguistlist.org/issues/7/7-300.html for more
discussion.

and there are references to a language of the same name:

Any of the several languages of this people, of which one set of
dialects or languages, also called Inupik, is spread from Norton

It should be spelled Inupiaq. They call themselves Inupiat.

Sound, Alaska, to Greenland, and another set, also called Yupik,
is in southwest Alaska and the eastern tip of Siberia. These
languages, together with those of the Aleut, form the
Eskimo-Aleut, -Aleutian family.

But I don't want to offend a fine people in any way. It's not as
if they are neoconvicts.

Rephrase:

Well, she was planning to sell Sterno to the Inuit, but she
drank it, instead.

Don't say that to anyone in Alaska, because the might laugh at
you. Even the Inupiat people (who actually are Inuit) don't use
the term Inuit.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

"T S Sherlock" wrote:
Paul
Eskimo means "eaters of raw meat" and was the name Canadian Indians used
when talking about the Inuits.

Nahhh. It ain't so. But it does make for a good story...

The Inuits have always referred to themselves as Inuit (the Yupik variant is
Yuit), which means the "real people."

Inuit and Yupik are the same word in two different languages.
They both derive from same Proto-Eskimo word (which means that
2000 years ago, the ancestors of both Inuit and Yupik people
spoke one language, and the word they used to mean the same
thing is something like "Inuy".

It does mean "Real People", but in a way that is very difficult
to explain to most English speakers because of their religious
convictions. It actually means a human in the sense of being
the original owner of a human spirit. That would be as opposed
to a non-human masquerading as a human, which may well look and
sound exactly like a human, but might have the spirit of a bear.

(If you think that is unreasonable, just go annoy someone you
suspect of being a bear, and see of they don't just turn into
one...)

It may not be as negative as the N word, but it is definitely antiquated,
sort of like calling Native American's "Indians".

That's silly. First, it isn't antiquated in any way. It is the
one and the only word that refers to all Eskimo people,
languages, or cultures. If you want to reference them all,
there is no other way to do it. (Which is a common requirement
when speaking to Alaskans... or to linguists.)

Second, the same problem applies to "Native American's"
vs. "Indians". Some people don't like one, some don't like the
other. But regardless, the two words have *different*
meanings! Indians are American Indians. Native Americans are
Indians, Eskimo, Aleuts, Hawaiians, Samoans and probably a couple
other types of people who are not Indians.

Native American is a word that was coin a few decades ago for
use by the government....

"Paul Schilter" ""paulschilter\"@comcast dot net" wrote in message
...
Jim,
Didn't know that. Where does the term Eskimos come from? I take it they
wish to be called "Inuit"?
Paul

Jim Carter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

Well, she was planning to sell Sterno to Eskimos, but she drank it,

instead.
......................snip..............

Good Morning Harry.

I am sure you did not know that using the word "Eskimo" to describe the
"Inuit" people of the far north, is like calling a black man the " N "
word.

James D. Carter

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
From http://www.alaskan.com/docs/eskimo.html

Shame on them for spread untruths... :-)

Eskimo
The Eskimo are the native inhabitants of the seacoasts of the Arctic
and sub-Arctic regions of North America and the northeastern tip of
Siberia. Their habitation area extends over four countries: the United
States, Canada, the USSR, and Greenland. Of the more than 90,000
Eskimo in this region, the greater part live south of the Arctic
Circle, with approximately 28,000 on the Aleutian Islands and in
Alaska; 17,000 in Canada; 1,500 in Siberia; and 45,000 in Greenland.

The word Eskimo is not an Eskimo word. It means "eaters of raw meat"

I've posted facts and a couple cites on this in another message.
That is not the actual etymology of the word, though it makes
a good story so people like it.

and was used by the Algonquin Indians of eastern Canada for these
hardy neighbors who wore animal-skin clothing and were adept hunters.
The name became commonly employed by European explorers and now is
generally used, even by Eskimo. Their own term for themselves is Inuit
(the Yupik variant is Yuit), which means the "real people."

Yuit just means a group of people. Yupik means "Genuine people".
Another word that is actually the same as Yupik is Yupiaq.

The Eskimo inhabit one of the most inclement regions of the world.
Their land is mostly tundra--low, flat, treeless plains where the
ground remains permanently frozen except for a few inches of the
surface during the brief summer season. Although some groups are
settled on rivers and depend on fishing, and others follow inland
caribou herds, most Eskimo traditionally have lived primarily as
hunters of maritime mammals (seals, walrus, and whales), and the
structure and ethos of their culture have always been fundamentally
oriented to the sea.

That is quite accurate.

One of the most striking aspects of traditional Eskimo culture is its
relative homogeneity across more than 8,000 km (5,000 mi) of the vast
expanses of the Arctic. The main institutional and psychological
patterns of the culture--religious, social, and economic--are much the
same. There are some differences in traditional kinship systems,
however, especially in the western regions, and the language is

I don't know what they mean by "especially in the western regions".
Not that I know of...

divided into two major dialectical groups, the Inupik speakers
(Greenland to western Alaska) and the Yupik speakers (southwestern
Alaska and Siberia)

And that is accurate too.

The Inupiaq (that is the what it is called in Alaska) language
broke away from Proto-Eskimo perhaps 1500-2000 years ago, and
rapidly spread from the Bering Straits area eastward to
Greenland. Today the Inupiaq language presents a continuum from
west to east, though at the fringes there are some significant
variations (influence by Yupik in the west and ritual word
replacement in Eastern Greenland). Otherwise they can easily
communicate with each other.

Yupik on the other hand has been in place for several thousands
of years, and in some cases even relatively close villages speak
dialects so different that they cannot understand each other.
It actually took study by linguists to discover that it was one
language with several very distinct dialects as opposed to just
several languages.

Note that occasionally you'll see the word "Yup'ik", which is
pronounced exactly the same as Yupik, but it is used to refer
to the Central Alaskan Yupik people or language.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

"Jim Carter" wrote:
"Paul Schilter" ""paulschilter\"@comcast dot net" wrote in message
...
Jim,
Didn't know that. Where does the term Eskimos come from? I take it they
wish to be called "Inuit"?
Paul
Hi Paul:
The term " Eskimo" is taken from the Algonquin tribe language and the
meaning is "eater of raw flesh". It was an ancient name that the Inuit
detested as it was in reference to the, sometimes, act of cannibalism. The
Inuit have always called themselves "Inuit" as a people and "Inuk" as a

Those words have only been around for... 1500 years or so.
Eskimos have been around for at least 5000, maybe 8000 or more,
years.

person. I have traveled to Rankin Inlet in Nunavut ( Canadian Northern
Territory) to visit my niece who is a school teacher in this town. ( and to
go fishing ) She told me of how the people react to Americans who call
them "Eskimo". They definitely don't like it at all.

Depends on how you use it. People who have been abused by a
government that used the word Eskimo to implement the abuse
don't like it, particularly if there is even a hint of racism.

On the other hand, if you use it *correctly*, which is to say when
you are referring to *all* types of Eskimos, not just Inuit, even
the Inuit people of Canada don't mind it.

Of course there is very little need for it in Canada. Here in
Alaska that is an everyday usage that is very common. Besides,
nobody here calls themselves Inuit.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

That's odd. For some reason, we have a small contingent of Inuit here
in town - I think two or three of the family teach in local colleges
and at UCONN. They have never objected to the term Eskimo.

Go figure.

I figure you were probably paying attention to *them*, rather than
what others say about them.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote in message
...
...................................snip........... ...........
Don't say that to anyone in Alaska, because the might laugh at
you. Even the Inupiat people (who actually are Inuit) don't use
the term Inuit.
Floyd L. Davidson http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

Hi Floyd: What you have mentioned may be true of the Western Arctic but
not so in the Eastern Arctic. The term Inuit is used by "the people" and
they absolutely detest the name Eskimo. It is considered, by themselves,
to be a racial slur. You are very correct when you say it was probably
started by Government's and the white traders despicable treatments of the
Inuit in times past.

James D. Carter

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 18:43:00 +1000, "K. Smith" wrote:

John H wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 07:54:45 +1000, "K. Smith" wrote:

The OT political

arguments have taken over rec.boats and any kind of actual boating post is
desperately needed. If you check out the subscription rate for boating
magazines you will see that many many recreational boaters find these
articles enjoyable. I do not believe this articles or Chuck's other Boat
"reviews" would ever be considered SPAM. SPAM is " Unsolicited "junk"
e-mail sent to large numbers of people to promote products or services.
Also refers to inappropriate promotional or commercial postings to
discussion groups or bulletin boards."

Again your interpretation(s) are yours & that's fine, I hold a
different view. As for you comments about OT posts again this particular
poster is one of the major OT posters in this NG, always starting or
promoting political posts, so to now give him credit because he posts an
ad promoting a boat??? Again that's your view.

I get a whole hell of a lot of spam, and Gould's article wouldn't fall into that
category, IMO.

As you say John in your opinion, which I respect; clearly I hold a
different opinion.

I would call Gould's article an 'infomercial'. It provides information (granted
it's only one-sided) about a product. In this particular case, a trip to the web
site would have provided about as much information, along with a virtual tour of
the boat.

So it's an ad?? we're pretty close to agreement I would say the real
difference is you don't think Gould is a spamming grub & I do, again
we're both entitled to our view, although on many occasions I've caught
him BS'ting on the facts, fuel usage hull constructions etc & always
explained why.

So far, I don't put Gould in the same category as, "Reply-To: "Vicky Claude"
Subject: force V1C0DD1N, V1AAGRRA, C1AAL1S, S0MMA, \/ALLIUM, Z0LOFT, XANAA,
C0DE1NE AT L0W..."

Now *that's* spam!

My big question, after reading his post, was, "Does it run?" Gould didn't
address any of the running characteristics of the boat, so I assume it was just
a walk-through at the dealership.

No it was a fluff piece so he can pretend he's actually part of the
marketing of big ticket boats, why?? who knows?? he says he's made
enough over the years selling used cars to the unsuspecting & other
people's boats for unearned percentages:-) but whatever the reason it's
spam & is not allowed in this no spam NG.

Even if you like it John, even if you, Paul otm or humphrey B bear &
other Gould, Krause supporters all like it, that's just tough. I suggest
you go to the website because Gould's endless spam shouldn't be posted
here, anymore than the same person starts & continues endless OT
political posts.

Beware he's a full on Bs'ter of the first order he can worm around
anything till he gets his own way or "makes the sale".

However, it *was* boating related, was much more than a 'For Sale' ad, and did
provide some information. [Who would have known that a Gaggenau
barbecue grill will prepare steak, ribs, chicken, or fresh seafood?]

Clearly not Gould I'd suggest but rarely does he know much of anything
boating, even a BBQ when it's on a boat:-).

You questioned the truthfulness of the article and his deceit. Did you find
anything in the article that was false?

False as in a lie?? well it's just the usual sales pitch with the
important stuff missing, NB the usual unsupported claims of quality etc
if you're really looking for the BS then have a good check of the "hand
laid hull" claim this is classic Gould territory, the last time he
claimed that one it was proven to be as accurate as his fuel consumption
claims, that is it's just marketing BS. As for the claims of quality
have a look around & you'll see the older of this mark being sold as
what they are, just another Taiwanese elcheapo import.

Made in Taiwan? I don't recall seeing that in Gould's article (probably 'cause
it wasn't mentioned?) I, personally, think that is important information that
should have been included in the write-up. Of course, it may be that unless an
article announces the boat is made in the USA, one should assume it's made in
another country.

As for Gould himself posting this spam??? of course it's just another
stunning example of his socialist lefty dumbo characterless hypocrisy.
Remember John he regularly starts OT threads to lecture the NG about the
evils of shopping for cheap poorly made imports at walmart & even worse,
much worse:-) buying a Chinese toaster!!!! Honestly John how many
toasters do you think it might take to equal the foreign exchange
implications of just one of these Chinese (relax I know it's Taiwan but
it depends on how you look at it & besides I wanted to say "junk":-))
junks & I use the term in it's western form:-). Yet when there's an
advantage to the Gould spammer he seems to be a typical uneducated
simpleton lefty & doesn't live by the standards he happily demands of
others:-) He has a Chinese boat himself & when he replaced the motor did
he buy local??? no of course not he bought another imported engine, in
other words if there's an advantage to Gould in anything then he does it
I suggest that's how he's lived his life, it seems unchallenged till now
that is:-) you're defending a Krause supporting creep.

Before you get ****ed (which I hope you don't find necessary) please realize
that I appreciate your posts showing the falsehoods associated with some of the
things said about boat/engine articles. You often provide factual information
enjoyable to read. Please continue doing so.

Errr .... um ... thanks for the permission John???? but I will invited
or not:-) equally if nobody says anything about Gould's spam he really
ups the load, this way he will pull his huge bald head in for a while,
watch & see if I'm not right:-) Jim H is dead right in his posts above,
nobody has any trouble seeing them as good examples of spam, this is
just more of Gould's spam.

Not 'permission', but a request. "Please continue doing so."

OTOH, attacks on Gould when he posts one of these 'informercials' does no one
any good.

But hey John I feel better:-) indeed when there isn't some idiot dealer
promoting Ficht renamed as E-Tec this is a bit of fun, I'm not thanking
Gould for his spam of course just saying I don't mind doing it as I
said, as a NG community service:-)

Pointing out the Taiwanese origin of this boat was a NG community service.

Your personal attacks of Harry, however deserved, detract from your on-topic
posts and do nothing but start flame wars, as opposed to a discussion of the
topic at hand. My advice -- Use a separate thread for your off-topic posts.

Well there ya go we do agree on one thing & the lying idiot flies with
Gould, do you have the saying there "you fly with the crows you get shot
with the crows"?????

Well, similar..."You can't soar with the eagles if you're mired in eagle ****."
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."