Bill Sc wrote:
As far as I know all outboards are "stood on end" (crankshaft needs to point
down). Seems like all the 4 strokes would need dry sump or a weird oil pan.

Not "quite" all :-) But yes agreed. However "if" & it's still an if, it
is based on that GM engine then there would be some things to be
addressed, not just moving the oil pickup & having the "sump" at the bottom.

K


"K Smith" wrote in message
...

Dan Krueger wrote:

BS. K. hasn't predicted their demise so they will be just fine...

Dan


Sir Spamalot wrote:


On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:50:19 GMT, "Clams Canino"
wrote:



Mercury Marine unveils the new Verado today.

Supercharged even.

http://www.mercurymarine.com/

-W




Oh christ, just what we need; a "supercharged" outboard. These
Mercury folks are really getting desperate, and have pulled all of the
technology "punches" to get attention.

This may well be the last nail in the coffin for Mercury.

I wonder who's block they are using? Hope it's not GM. Or
Diamler-Chrysler. Or Ford. Anyone know? Anyone have any other tech
info, other than the virtually useless info that's already been
written by the marketeers?

It'll be interesting to watch how this all plays out.


NOSPAM: Please remove "my" in "comcast" to reply.


& she won't if they're "based" on that 270 HP 6cyl GM engine which I
think they are.

4 stroke ?? big tick

multi cam multi valve?? more ticks

Tried & proven injection systems?? ticks again

supercharged ?? maybe not a tick but GM have been supercharging their 6
cyl engines for a while with success so certainly not a cross.

The comments here are that the only prob will be the way they've stood
it on it's end & effectively dry sumped it, & that's probably been
supervised by GM anyway

K

I suspect they actually thought
about the dry sump issue and were able to engineer something without
making a phone call to Australia.

Maybe the oil flows the "other" way there.
I heard the toilets flush to the left there.

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:44:58 +0000, FishFan wrote:

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
news:fbVWb.17180$_44.19735@attbi_s52...
Mercury Marine unveils the new Verado today.

Supercharged even.

http://www.mercurymarine.com/

-W

Anybody look at the weight?

649 lbs for a 225!!


In fact, isn't that about the weight of a 220hp I/O ? (5L V8)

Lloyd

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:07:48 +0000, Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:44:58 +0000, FishFan wrote:

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
news:fbVWb.17180$_44.19735@attbi_s52...
Mercury Marine unveils the new Verado today.

Supercharged even.

http://www.mercurymarine.com/

-W

Anybody look at the weight?

649 lbs for a 225!!


In fact, isn't that about the weight of a 220hp I/O ? (5L V8)

Lloyd

(and I'm guessing it's NOT FWC !

Lloyd

Harry Krause wrote:
K Smith wrote:


Bill Sc wrote:

As far as I know all outboards are "stood on end" (crankshaft needs to point
down). Seems like all the 4 strokes would need dry sump or a weird oil pan.

Not "quite" all :-) But yes agreed. However "if" & it's still an if, it
is based on that GM engine then there would be some things to be
addressed, not just moving the oil pickup & having the "sump" at the bottom.

K


Why don't you just list in standard English

Gotta love it an totally uneducated union spruiker yank asking for
standard English!!! what a hoot from the liar:-)

all of the "some things to
be addressed," and we'll ask Mercury.

Well the early hondas had a few problems with cam sealing, the top
wasn't getting enough & the bottom too much so seals didn't just fail
but at the top particularly cut into the shaft by being too dry.

Already mentioned the loss of prime thing but that's probably OK now

Some of the early 4 strokes tended to corrode out what is effectively
the sump. (hot salt water being blasted by exhaust seems the eat through
very quickly)

In my case being a diesel the concerns were about oil getting past the
rings into the chamber, always a serious thing in diesels. They have oil
sprayers under the pistons so there's always plenty there.

With the cyls to stern if a boat were very stern low trimmed at rest (as
many OB craft are let alone with well over 600lbs of diesel OB
attached:-)) then they were worried residual lube oil might get flowed
"down" into the chambers.

Well as I said under the tutelage of GM they should be pretty right, but
as we all now know they were pretty hopeless when it came to Optimax &
gees louise that was the Aussies:-)

All this is predicated upon them using that particular GM block as the
base engine, given the weight etc it seems likely?? Anyone confirm??


I suspect they actually thought
about the dry sump issue and were able to engineer something without
making a phone call to Australia.

Or do you believe they ignored that issue?

K

So I'll cut it down to just Harry's lie for the day??? This was one of
the lobster boat posts, when he posted for 18 mths about how he was
buying this or that, what a load of BS!!!!

"Sure. I'm in the market for a new marine diesel of 420-480 shp. I'm
especially interested in Volvo's TAMD74P EDC, because Volvo has had a
lot of experience with electronic controls in that size diesel. I've
dismissed getting a Cat 3208 TA because the technology is so old and
because a couple of commercial fishermen I know who have had 3208's
have, basically, burned them out."

Gee even this lie has an imported engine boo hoo poor unionists:-)

K Smith wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:
K Smith wrote:


Bill Sc wrote:

As far as I know all outboards are "stood on end" (crankshaft needs to point
down). Seems like all the 4 strokes would need dry sump or a weird oil pan.

Not "quite" all :-) But yes agreed. However "if" & it's still an if, it
is based on that GM engine then there would be some things to be
addressed, not just moving the oil pickup & having the "sump" at the bottom.

K


Why don't you just list in standard English

Gotta love it an totally uneducated union spruiker yank asking for
standard English!!! what a hoot from the liar:-)

You want to compare writing skills? Go for it.



all of the "some things to
be addressed," and we'll ask Mercury.

Well the early hondas had a few problems with cam sealing, the top
wasn't getting enough & the bottom too much so seals didn't just fail
but at the top particularly cut into the shaft by being too dry.

That's Honda, maybe. You intimated there were "some things to be
addressed" with the Mercury engine. What are the problems with the new
Mercury engine.



Already mentioned the loss of prime thing but that's probably OK now

Is that a problem with the new Mercury engine? The one no one in
Australia has seen?



Some of the early 4 strokes tended to corrode out what is effectively
the sump. (hot salt water being blasted by exhaust seems the eat through
very quickly)

Yes, well, isn't that nice. But is that a problem with the new Mercury
engine? After all, Mercury does have some knowledge of corrosion
protection, eh?



In my case being a diesel the concerns were about oil getting past the
rings into the chamber, always a serious thing in diesels. They have oil
sprayers under the pistons so there's always plenty there.

That's nice. What does that have to do with the new Mercury four stroke
gasoline engine?



With the cyls to stern if a boat were very stern low trimmed at rest (as
many OB craft are let alone with well over 600lbs of diesel OB
attached:-)) then they were worried residual lube oil might get flowed
"down" into the chambers.

That's a terrible problem..,but how does it relate to the new Mercury
outboard?




Well as I said under the tutelage of GM they should be pretty right, but
as we all now know they were pretty hopeless when it came to Optimax &
gees louise that was the Aussies:-)


Mercury builds many high-output engines for the automakers. Merc also
successfully marinizes GM engines. You didn't know that? I expect that
if this was a cross-pollinization effort between Merc and GM, both
companies learned from each other.



All this is predicated upon them using that particular GM block as the
base engine, given the weight etc it seems likely?? Anyone confirm??


That possibility was talked about more than a year ago, but I haven't
seen any confirmation. However, the straight-six engine Merc is using
for this outboard turns 6400 rpm, and if it is a GM-based product, that
certainly would make it an unusual one, since, as far as I know, GM
doesn't have a gas block engine in straight six format that turns
anywhere near that. So, if it were a block of GM origin, it would have
to be totally re-engineered, eh?


My summation: you know nothing about the new Merc outboard, nothing at
all, but you want to appear in the know. Now, I expect, you'll spend
some hours searching out some crumbs of information, translate them into
your semi-literate non-standard English, and claim them as your own.





--
Email sent to is never read.

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:07:48 +0000, Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:44:58 +0000, FishFan wrote:

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
news:fbVWb.17180$_44.19735@attbi_s52...
Mercury Marine unveils the new Verado today.

Supercharged even.

http://www.mercurymarine.com/

-W

Anybody look at the weight?

649 lbs for a 225!!


In fact, isn't that about the weight of a 220hp I/O ? (5L V8)

Lloyd

(and I'm guessing it's NOT FWC !

Lloyd



Actually, the V8 I/O's weigh more, I believe. My F225 Yamaha weighs
close to 600 pounds.

What's really troubling about all these new high-tech outboards is that
for anything other than routine maintenance, you need a highly skilled
mechanic, and I wonder sometimes what the average dealership is doing to
cope. I deal with a very large and successful dealership that has some
first-class people in its shop, but it is a big-ticket, high-volume
dealer. Imagine buying one of these outboards from an inland guy who
only sells a dozen a year. His shop guys don't get enough practice to
get up to speed.

--
Email sent to is never read.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:17:37 +0000, Harry Krause wrote:

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:07:48 +0000, Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:44:58 +0000, FishFan wrote:

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
news:fbVWb.17180$_44.19735@attbi_s52...
Mercury Marine unveils the new Verado today.

Supercharged even.

http://www.mercurymarine.com/

-W

Anybody look at the weight?

649 lbs for a 225!!


In fact, isn't that about the weight of a 220hp I/O ? (5L V8)

Lloyd

(and I'm guessing it's NOT FWC !

Lloyd



Actually, the V8 I/O's weigh more, I believe. My F225 Yamaha weighs close to 600
pounds.

What's really troubling about all these new high-tech outboards is that for
anything other than routine maintenance, you need a highly skilled mechanic, and
I wonder sometimes what the average dealership is doing to cope.

That's a common problem these days. Have you looked at some of the modern
"sportbikes"? Have you seen anything on them that you or I would identify as an
"engine"? (let alone "spark plugs", "carburetor", etc.) Same with the
high-output, turbocharged, intercooled, goober-modulated diesels.

My bike has an old-style V-twin engine, with plugs and carburators. My boat has
a normally-aspirated diesel. My van has the Venerable 4.3L V6. I can repair them
all myself, mostly without a computer.

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36 - engine ALMOST done!

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:17:37 +0000, Harry Krause wrote:

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:07:48 +0000, Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:44:58 +0000, FishFan wrote:

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
news:fbVWb.17180$_44.19735@attbi_s52...
Mercury Marine unveils the new Verado today.

Supercharged even.

http://www.mercurymarine.com/

-W

Anybody look at the weight?

649 lbs for a 225!!


In fact, isn't that about the weight of a 220hp I/O ? (5L V8)

Lloyd

(and I'm guessing it's NOT FWC !

Lloyd



Actually, the V8 I/O's weigh more, I believe. My F225 Yamaha weighs close to 600
pounds.

What's really troubling about all these new high-tech outboards is that for
anything other than routine maintenance, you need a highly skilled mechanic, and
I wonder sometimes what the average dealership is doing to cope.

That's a common problem these days. Have you looked at some of the modern
"sportbikes"? Have you seen anything on them that you or I would identify as an
"engine"? (let alone "spark plugs", "carburetor", etc.) Same with the
high-output, turbocharged, intercooled, goober-modulated diesels.

My bike has an old-style V-twin engine, with plugs and carburators. My boat has
a normally-aspirated diesel. My van has the Venerable 4.3L V6. I can repair them
all myself, mostly without a computer.

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36 - engine ALMOST done!


Hey...I can still fix my lawnmower engine.

--
Email sent to is never read.

What's really troubling about all these new high-tech outboards is that
for anything other than routine maintenance, you need a highly skilled
mechanic, and I wonder sometimes what the average dealership is doing to
cope.

From my experience they are not doing much. They may send someone to a seminar
or something but they certainly seem baffled as soon as these things get beyond
bad plugs and worn out impellers.
Expect them to go through a, $500 a part, easter egg hunt and they are going to
try to charge you for the misses.
"Damn TWO bad parts!"
I suppose, if you live in a metro area near the water they will have enough
volume to sustain a well trained mechanic but here in the SW Fla area I haven't
found him yet.
It really behooves you to learn as much as you can about your motor. Buy a shop
manual and read it. That is usually all the guy at the dealer has done and he
probably doesn't read the whole chapter until after he is a couple parts into
the easter egg hunt.