"John H" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:18:13 -0500, HKrause
wrote:

John H wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:57:56 -0500, HKrause
wrote:


John H wrote:

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 06:42:38 -0500, HKrause
wrote:



K. Smith wrote:



Just like the brokers!!! so don't go near any of them. The brokers
don't even have a business, no investment, no capitol, nothing,
they're
mostly failed used car salesmen & if you don't know what that means
then
you deserve what you won't get.

So essentially brokers are one of the few life forms below a
franchised boat dealer & that's almost life on Mars type stuff,
however
at least the dealers have a real business, with real overheads,
assets,
stock & staff etc, whereas the average slimey broker is just an
unregulated hangeron moron.




Yet another psychotic screed from Karen Smith of Australia, the
self-proclaimed "inventor" of the "Taipan line" of diesel outboards no
one has heard of, and, in fact, no one in the marine industry has
heard
of Karen Smith, either.


But she presents a detailed knowledge of marine engines. One which some
folks
can only snipe at with their inane comments.


It's your opinion that she presents a "detailed knowledge." Time and
again, her "detailed" knowledge has been shot to shreds by experts with
actual credentials.

Perhaps some people are too easy to convince when they see long, poorly
written posts with a few buzzwords sprinkled in for effect.


When an expert responds to her posts with a different opinion, I enjoy
reading
both. *You*, in my opinion, are not an expert. Therefore your snide
comments
fall into the 'inane' category.


Double yawn.

Double 'exactly'.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

John, as Wally previously suggested, just killfile the guy. He is rude,
angry and has nothing worthwhile to offer this group.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:36:16 -0500, "Dr. Dr. Karen Grear"
wrote:

If you are aware of how to negotiate, why would you stop negotiations, just
because someone was using NADA prices as part of his negotiations.

Grasshopper, I never said stop negotiations. Stop looking at the
trees and notice the beautiful forrest.

If you
were a good negotiator, you would immediately show the selling price of
similar boats in your area as your tool to discredit the NADA prices.

In my experience, people who bring up NADA pricing are usually not
intertested in hearing about other, more realistic sources for boat
pricing. You can bring up actual comparable sales all day long and
the NADA folks will go right back to "yeah, but NADA.........."

A good negotiator would not give anything away, nor would he allow an offer
that he considered unreasonable to stop his negotiations.

Who said anything about giving something away, or stoping
negotiations?

bb

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:13:47 -0500, "JimH" wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:18:13 -0500, HKrause
wrote:

John H wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:57:56 -0500, HKrause
wrote:


John H wrote:

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 06:42:38 -0500, HKrause
wrote:



K. Smith wrote:



Just like the brokers!!! so don't go near any of them. The brokers
don't even have a business, no investment, no capitol, nothing,
they're
mostly failed used car salesmen & if you don't know what that means
then
you deserve what you won't get.

So essentially brokers are one of the few life forms below a
franchised boat dealer & that's almost life on Mars type stuff,
however
at least the dealers have a real business, with real overheads,
assets,
stock & staff etc, whereas the average slimey broker is just an
unregulated hangeron moron.




Yet another psychotic screed from Karen Smith of Australia, the
self-proclaimed "inventor" of the "Taipan line" of diesel outboards no
one has heard of, and, in fact, no one in the marine industry has
heard
of Karen Smith, either.


But she presents a detailed knowledge of marine engines. One which some
folks
can only snipe at with their inane comments.


It's your opinion that she presents a "detailed knowledge." Time and
again, her "detailed" knowledge has been shot to shreds by experts with
actual credentials.

Perhaps some people are too easy to convince when they see long, poorly
written posts with a few buzzwords sprinkled in for effect.


When an expert responds to her posts with a different opinion, I enjoy
reading
both. *You*, in my opinion, are not an expert. Therefore your snide
comments
fall into the 'inane' category.


Double yawn.

Double 'exactly'.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

John, as Wally previously suggested, just killfile the guy. He is rude,
angry and has nothing worthwhile to offer this group.



Done!

--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:56:38 -0500, HKrause
wrote:

Would you mind emailing me your email address, bb?

Thanks

No problem. I sent it to your gmail account. If that's not the one
to use, let me know.

bb

bb,
I can see why you have trouble negotiating.


"bb" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:36:16 -0500, "Dr. Dr. Karen Grear"
wrote:

If you are aware of how to negotiate, why would you stop negotiations,
just
because someone was using NADA prices as part of his negotiations.

Grasshopper, I never said stop negotiations. Stop looking at the
trees and notice the beautiful forrest.

If you
were a good negotiator, you would immediately show the selling price of
similar boats in your area as your tool to discredit the NADA prices.

In my experience, people who bring up NADA pricing are usually not
intertested in hearing about other, more realistic sources for boat
pricing. You can bring up actual comparable sales all day long and
the NADA folks will go right back to "yeah, but NADA.........."

A good negotiator would not give anything away, nor would he allow an
offer
that he considered unreasonable to stop his negotiations.

Who said anything about giving something away, or stoping
negotiations?

bb

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:36:39 -0500, HKrause
wrote:
Yeah, as I said, 31s and of course the 33s were larger than what I had
in mind, when I had this refurb idea in mind. A couple of four cylinder
diesels would do nicely in the 28.

I've got a nibble, maybe, on my Parker. If the guy's really interested,
I'll have the winter plastic removed. I don't usually call for that
until the beginning of April, just before the last snowstorm here.

===============================================

Normal power on most of the 28s that we saw was a pair of 350cid
Chevys rated at 260 hp, cruising at about 130 hp each. I would want
diesel power of at least 180 to 200 hp for comparable performance. My
recollection is that the 28s actually weigh more than the 31s but the
31s are almost always found with a pair of 454s unless they've been
converted.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:26:08 -0500, "Dr. Dr. Karen Grear"
wrote:

bb,
I can see why you have trouble negotiating.

heh

bb

The book does not dictate a price, but it can be an effective tool
while
negotiating.


**********

Nonsense. You might as well rely on saying "My brother-in-law says
your boat is only worth XXXX.

Put yourself in the seller's shoes. When the seller listed the boat, it
is very probable that he did some research on the local market that
included sales trends and selling prices for boats similar to the one
he is selling. To put yourself in the seller's shoes, imagine you put
your house up for sale and, rather than throwing a dart at sheet of
numbers on the wall, you priced the boat at or just slightly above the
prevailing price trend in your area.

Let's say that after you had your house listed for a week, an offer for
half price is presented by the broker. When you say, "That's almost an
insult! What makes this guy think he can buy
my house for so much less than my neighbors are selling their houses
for?"....how quickly would you cave in when the broker replied, "The
buyer went on the internet, found some site
where a group of Automobile Dealers has expressed an opinion about the
value of your boat, and as far as he's concerned that's all its worth"?

We actually *do* agree on one thing. Knowing the actual, recent, local
price tendencies for a boat can be an effective negotiating tactic.
This information is available, (I described how to obtain it earlier in
the thread), and useful. Using some fairy tale number from a
discredited source won't cause an informed seller to give his boat away
at half price. Ain't gonna happen.

Now of course if it were a political debate instead of a boating
transaction, the guy with the phony numbers would just keep repeating
them over, and over, and over again until everybody else began
believing they might be true. :-)

If you are aware of how to negotiate, why would you stop negotiations,
just
because someone was using NADA prices as part of his negotiations.

**************

If the gap is hopeless, refusing to "counter" can be an effective
tactic. (If the gap is hopeless)

It has everything to do with carving out the game rules.
Is the question going to be, "How much more than half price will you be
able to eventually grind out of me as a buyer/" or "How much less than
my asking price are you going to convince me, as a seller, to accept?"
The answer is seldom "double", or "half".

A fair price is what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller. Anybody
will be willing to buy at half price, but few willing sellers, (not
acting under duress) will accept that.

Those who need to buy on the triple cheap should maybe keep an eye on
the obits. Next time a boater dies, maybe his grieving widow can be
deceived into dumping his boat for a lot less than it's really worth.
Once in a while you meet a guy who bought a boat, a car, or something
else on the super-cheap in such circumstances.......don't know about
you, but I have to resist the urge to vomit when they start bragging
about how they suckered the old lady in her hour of distress.

wrote in message
oups.com...
The book does not dictate a price, but it can be an effective tool
while
negotiating.


**********

Nonsense. You might as well rely on saying "My brother-in-law says
your boat is only worth XXXX.

Put yourself in the seller's shoes. When the seller listed the boat, it
is very probable that he did some research on the local market that
included sales trends and selling prices for boats similar to the one
he is selling. To put yourself in the seller's shoes, imagine you put
your house up for sale and, rather than throwing a dart at sheet of
numbers on the wall, you priced the boat at or just slightly above the
prevailing price trend in your area.

Let's say that after you had your house listed for a week, an offer for
half price is presented by the broker. When you say, "That's almost an
insult! What makes this guy think he can buy
my house for so much less than my neighbors are selling their houses
for?"....how quickly would you cave in when the broker replied, "The
buyer went on the internet, found some site
where a group of Automobile Dealers has expressed an opinion about the
value of your boat, and as far as he's concerned that's all its worth"?

We actually *do* agree on one thing. Knowing the actual, recent, local
price tendencies for a boat can be an effective negotiating tactic.
This information is available, (I described how to obtain it earlier in
the thread), and useful. Using some fairy tale number from a
discredited source won't cause an informed seller to give his boat away
at half price. Ain't gonna happen.

Now of course if it were a political debate instead of a boating
transaction, the guy with the phony numbers would just keep repeating
them over, and over, and over again until everybody else began
believing they might be true. :-)


Chuck, what is your opinion of the BUC personalized evaluation/pricing
service?

http://www.buc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pes

We used it when we sold our boat and found it to be a good tool.