A Usenet persona calling itself KMAN wrote:

in article , Scott Weiser at
wrote on 3/26/05 3:09 PM:

A Usenet persona calling itself KMAN wrote:

in article , Michael Daly at
wrote on 3/25/05 9:36 PM:


On 25-Mar-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:

HOSPITALIZATION and SURGERY. It does
not, by law.

Which law? Provide proof.

The supplemental policies _do_ provide for hospitalization and
surgery. It is you who is too ignorant to accept the truth.

Mike

What's he trying to say Mike? That we can't have health insurance? Or that
it can't be used for hospital care?

Neither. I'm saying that no amount of health care insurance in Canada will
get you into a hospital or surgical suite ahead of anyone higher on the
priority list than you. That it may cover all sorts of things that Canada's
socialized medical system doesn't cover is beside the point. If you cannot
use your insurance to guarantee you a room or surgery when YOU need it, not
when the government decides to provide it to you, it's nothing more than
palliative and gives you nothing more than a few perks in the hospital,
provided you don't die waiting to be admitted.

If you are saying that supplemental health care insurance in Canada won't
allow me to skip ahead of some other person in the emergency room, that is
quite true.

Evasion. I didn't say "emergency room." I said that Canada rations
hospitalization and surgery, of ALL kinds, both for acute, life threatening
illnesses as well as non life threatening problems that require a hospital
stay and/or surgery.


My old medical insurance provided that I could go to any hospital in the
world and get immediate treatment, including admission and surgery as
necessary, without any delay, without any permission from anybody, and it
would pay the bills.

You only get to go into the hospital if some government bureaucrat decides
you "need" to do so

You don't have a clue. I can go to the hospital right now and see a doctor.

But can you be admitted for your knee pain right away, or do you have to
take your place in line. The issue is not whether you get seen for an
initial evaluation, it's whether you get TREATMENT for your condition.

But it would make more sense to go to one of the nice GP clinics unless it's
a serious emergency.

If you need a hospital stay or surgery, you can't get it when you want it,
you have to get in line based on what some government bureaucrat says you
deserve.


and you "need" to do so more urgently than somebody else.

Well, yeah, like any hospital, there are only so many doctors on duty. If a
busload of kids crashes and they are coming in with burns and severed limbs
and I am there with my sprained ankle, you are right, I will probably have
to wait.

Evasion. You'll wait no matter what, depending on the acuteness of your
condition, even if there's a bed available, if your condition puts you down
on the list.


If they don't think you "need" to be admitted, or if they don't have
room, you're ****ed, and you have to come to the US and pay the full price
for your care.

Having lived here for 30+ years I have yet to meet one person where this has
ever happened.

As I said, the paucity of your social circle is not the metric.

Most people here have a family doctor that they see regularly. I have one.
His office has an after hours service as well. If it is regular business
hours, I can get an appointment with him pretty much whenever I want one. If
it is after hours, I can see one of the other doctors that he shares his
practice with for after hours care. About two blocks from his office is a
nice hospital, where I have been, and friends and family have been, for
everything from what turned out to be stomach flu to one of my best friends
that had cancer (with the help of many fine doctors he beat it).


And every time you jumped the queue with an emergency, somebody with a
deteriorating chronic condition was pushed down and had to wait longer.

--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

Scott:
=============
And every time you jumped the queue with an emergency, somebody with a
deteriorating chronic condition was pushed down and had to wait longer.

=============

Hmmm.... triage is taught in med school here... and practiced in the
hospitals.... so don't worry about those with a deteriorating chronic
condition

frtzw906

in article , Scott Weiser at
wrote on 3/27/05 8:12 PM:

A Usenet persona calling itself KMAN wrote:

in article , Scott Weiser at
wrote on 3/26/05 3:09 PM:

A Usenet persona calling itself KMAN wrote:

in article , Michael Daly at
wrote on 3/25/05 9:36 PM:


On 25-Mar-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:

HOSPITALIZATION and SURGERY. It does
not, by law.

Which law? Provide proof.

The supplemental policies _do_ provide for hospitalization and
surgery. It is you who is too ignorant to accept the truth.

Mike

What's he trying to say Mike? That we can't have health insurance? Or that
it can't be used for hospital care?

Neither. I'm saying that no amount of health care insurance in Canada will
get you into a hospital or surgical suite ahead of anyone higher on the
priority list than you. That it may cover all sorts of things that Canada's
socialized medical system doesn't cover is beside the point. If you cannot
use your insurance to guarantee you a room or surgery when YOU need it, not
when the government decides to provide it to you, it's nothing more than
palliative and gives you nothing more than a few perks in the hospital,
provided you don't die waiting to be admitted.

If you are saying that supplemental health care insurance in Canada won't
allow me to skip ahead of some other person in the emergency room, that is
quite true.

Evasion. I didn't say "emergency room." I said that Canada rations
hospitalization and surgery, of ALL kinds, both for acute, life threatening
illnesses as well as non life threatening problems that require a hospital
stay and/or surgery.

No evasion intended.

There is no question that priorities are established.


My old medical insurance provided that I could go to any hospital in the
world and get immediate treatment, including admission and surgery as
necessary, without any delay, without any permission from anybody, and it
would pay the bills.

You only get to go into the hospital if some government bureaucrat decides
you "need" to do so

You don't have a clue. I can go to the hospital right now and see a doctor.

But can you be admitted for your knee pain right away, or do you have to
take your place in line. The issue is not whether you get seen for an
initial evaluation, it's whether you get TREATMENT for your condition.

Every time I have gone to the hospital (which is not necessary very often
since I have an excellent family doctor I can see any time) I have received
TREATMENT and this is the same experience as everyone I know.

But it would make more sense to go to one of the nice GP clinics unless it's
a serious emergency.

If you need a hospital stay or surgery, you can't get it when you want it,
you have to get in line based on what some government bureaucrat says you
deserve.

You have to get in line only in the same way you would at any hospital, e.g.
a busload of injured nuns has just arrived.


and you "need" to do so more urgently than somebody else.

Well, yeah, like any hospital, there are only so many doctors on duty. If a
busload of kids crashes and they are coming in with burns and severed limbs
and I am there with my sprained ankle, you are right, I will probably have
to wait.

Evasion. You'll wait no matter what, depending on the acuteness of your
condition, even if there's a bed available, if your condition puts you down
on the list.

Huh?

You don't know what you are talking about. If I go to emergency right now
complaining my stomach hurts, if there isn't anyone in the waiting room
ahead of me, I will see a doctor immediately. I can accomplish the same with
my own doctor who operates an after hours clinic in additional to his
practice.


If they don't think you "need" to be admitted, or if they don't have
room, you're ****ed, and you have to come to the US and pay the full price
for your care.

Having lived here for 30+ years I have yet to meet one person where this has
ever happened.

As I said, the paucity of your social circle is not the metric.

Neither are media references to isolated cases the metric.

Most people here have a family doctor that they see regularly. I have one.
His office has an after hours service as well. If it is regular business
hours, I can get an appointment with him pretty much whenever I want one. If
it is after hours, I can see one of the other doctors that he shares his
practice with for after hours care. About two blocks from his office is a
nice hospital, where I have been, and friends and family have been, for
everything from what turned out to be stomach flu to one of my best friends
that had cancer (with the help of many fine doctors he beat it).


And every time you jumped the queue with an emergency, somebody with a
deteriorating chronic condition was pushed down and had to wait longer.

Getting treatment at emergency has nothing to do with someone in chronic
care. And as you know, the Canadian system is far superior in treatment
people with chronic conditions.