On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:57:14 -0600, lid
wrote:

Bought this motor last summer and have about 10-12 hours on it. Guess
I didn't get all the fuel out last time I used it so now the carb jet
is clogged (so says the dealer technician). The tech tells me it's the
only real prob with these motors for some reason or other, even when
you *think* you've run the carb dry, it's not really all outta there
(funny the salesman didn't mention it last summer), and it'll take him
a couple of hours at $75 per hour to remove the carb and clean it.

I've dismantled plenty of 2 stroke Merc and Johnson carbs so I figure
I can do this one too. But I've never done a Honda and I'd like a shop
manual or similar to go by. Problem is, Clymer et al manuals aren't
available for a motor this new ('04). And Honda doesn't make theirs
available except to authorized shops (according to this dealer).
Sooo.... anybody have any advice, warnings, or ideas? If I'm gonna be
faced with this prob for the rest of the life of this engine (so says
the tech), I might as well learn how to clean it myself.

Just curious - did you put fuel stabilizer in the mix before you ran
the carb out?

I'm also a little suspicious about the carb being gummed up after
10/12 hours. I've got a brand new Johnson 25 out back that I fired up
yesterday after 4 months of lay up and it lit right off - I didn't do
anything to it because I ran out of time.

I suggest two things. One, there is something wrong with the carb and
should still be under warranty - get them to fix it. It seems to me
that there could be several things wrong other than a stuck or clogged
jet. This should be a warranty deal after that short a period of
time.

Two, spray it down with a good carb cleaner first and see if that
frees things up. It not, goto Item 1.

Good luck.

Later,

Tom

On 2/18/05, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Just curious - did you put fuel stabilizer in the mix before you ran
the carb out?

Nope. I usually just hook up to a garden hose to flush when I get
home, then unplug the fuel line and let the carb run dry. We don't
really have an off season here (Gulf Coast) so I don't do any sort of
winter storage procedure. I can never predict how long the boat will
go unused though.

I'm also a little suspicious about the carb being gummed up after
10/12 hours.

That's run time though. The gummy part happens, even to a new motor,
when any fuel is left sitting in the carb for a few weeks. Three weeks
in this case.

I've got a brand new Johnson 25 out back that I fired up
yesterday after 4 months of lay up

Yuppers. I've got a '68 model 6hp Evinrude that fires right up even
after a year or two (although I am pretty good about turning it over
by hand every few months to make sure the piston hasn't frozen to the
cylinder wall). I've never had a prob with gummy carb as long as I run
the fuel out after each use. Same with an old 200hp Mariner I've had
for years. The tech tells me I might as well get used to it with this
4 stroke Honda though.

This should be a warranty deal after that short a period of
time.

If cleaning the jet doesn't resolve the issue, I agree. I'll go that
route.

Two, spray it down with a good carb cleaner first and see if that
frees things up.

Plan to do that when I get the carb apart. Mainly just to spray the
jet passage. The tech tells me it's so small you almost need a
magnifying glass to see it. Therein lies the "easy to clog" problem.

I have a parts list (drawings) for my other motors. I wish I could get
one for the Honda. For taking things apart and putting them back
together, those parts blow ups are as handy as a shop manual imho.

Good luck.

Thanks.
and thanks for the come back.

Rick

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:35:51 -0600, lid
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

I have a parts list (drawings) for my other motors. I wish I could get
one for the Honda. For taking things apart and putting them back
together, those parts blow ups are as handy as a shop manual imho.

I agree.

I know a guy who has a ton of experience in outboard repair - one of
those troubleshooter types - and he told me once that when he was at a
big dealer down along the shore, the Honda rep visited. He asked if
there was going to be a Honda school or in-service seminar and the
Honda rep said (as reported) "Honda's never break - there's no need
for schools".

In my anecdotal experience Honda's are great engines, but when they
break, the reported problems are usually really strange.

Interesting.

Later,

Tom

On 2/18/05, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Honda rep visited. He asked if
there was going to be a Honda school or in-service seminar and the
Honda rep said (as reported) "Honda's never break - there's no need
for schools".

LoL!... funny. Must have been a rep from their sales division. Sounds
like a typical response meaning, "I don't know" or "Let's change the
subject".

Went back by the dealer today and asked for a parts catalog.
Basically got the run around and a long involved excuse encompassing
everything from Federal EPA regulations to liability concerns ...
oddly enough he didn't mention possible warranty violations like I
expected. But they finally gave me the phone number for Honda's
Cusomer Relations Dept. So I called the number, drilled down through
a recorded menu, and was eventually told in the taped message that a
parts catalog can be ordered through any dealer LoL! So now I'm back
to square one. I guess now I'll try a different dealer. Maybe even let
'em listen to Honda's own menu. We'll see what happens next.

Rick

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:47:15 -0600, lid
wrote:

On 2/18/05, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Honda rep visited. He asked if
there was going to be a Honda school or in-service seminar and the
Honda rep said (as reported) "Honda's never break - there's no need
for schools".

LoL!... funny. Must have been a rep from their sales division. Sounds
like a typical response meaning, "I don't know" or "Let's change the
subject".

Went back by the dealer today and asked for a parts catalog.
Basically got the run around and a long involved excuse encompassing
everything from Federal EPA regulations to liability concerns ...
oddly enough he didn't mention possible warranty violations like I
expected. But they finally gave me the phone number for Honda's
Cusomer Relations Dept. So I called the number, drilled down through
a recorded menu, and was eventually told in the taped message that a
parts catalog can be ordered through any dealer LoL! So now I'm back
to square one. I guess now I'll try a different dealer. Maybe even let
'em listen to Honda's own menu. We'll see what happens next.

Sounds like the runaround I got from Garmin one time. Never did
talk to a human until the end and she informed that what I was asking
for was only available from a dealer - who told me to call Garmin.

You just can't make this stuff up.

Later,

Tom

wrote in message
...
On 2/18/05, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Honda rep visited. He asked if
there was going to be a Honda school or in-service seminar and the
Honda rep said (as reported) "Honda's never break - there's no need
for schools".

LoL!... funny. Must have been a rep from their sales division. Sounds
like a typical response meaning, "I don't know" or "Let's change the
subject".

Went back by the dealer today and asked for a parts catalog.
Basically got the run around and a long involved excuse encompassing
everything from Federal EPA regulations to liability concerns ...
oddly enough he didn't mention possible warranty violations like I
expected. But they finally gave me the phone number for Honda's
Cusomer Relations Dept. So I called the number, drilled down through
a recorded menu, and was eventually told in the taped message that a
parts catalog can be ordered through any dealer LoL! So now I'm back
to square one. I guess now I'll try a different dealer. Maybe even let
'em listen to Honda's own menu. We'll see what happens next.

Rick

Have you tried their website? http://www.honda-marine.com

I just visited their site and they seem to have service manuals for sale
there (or at least a link to where you can get it).

Sergio

On 2/19/05 "Sergio Ramirez" wrote:
Have you tried their website? http://www.honda-marine.com

Thanks yep. The site says you can download this or that but when you
follow the instructions, you end up at a dead end (no download
button/link). I've just assumed their site is still under construction
and they haven't put their active links in yet.
If you can figure out how to do what they say you can do, lemme know.
The site confirms what the telephone menu says though. I'm supposed to
be able to order a parts catalog though any dealer. I'll try that next
week if I can't figure out how to download one by then.
Thanks again
Rick

Rick:

In my case it takes me all the way to a shopping cart and ready to
checkout. What may be happening is that you might have a firewall setting
or some setting in your Internet browser that is preventing you from running
Javascript correctly. Let me tell you what I click on and see if you can do
the same

1. I go to http://www.honda-marine.com
2. On the web page I get a graphic that is switching among 3 or 4 picture
with some animated text. Right above the graphic there's a menu with the
following options: "2-20 HP", "25-90 HP", "115-225 HP", "JET DRIVES",
"PRODUCT RECALL", "LOCATE A DEALER", and "CUSTOMER SERVICE". Below the
graphic there's another menu with the following options: "WHAT'S NEW",
"OWNERS", "WHY CHOOSE HONDA", "TEAM HONDA", "OUTBOARD PROFESSOR", and
"ACCESSORIES".
3. I hover the mouse over the OWNERS option on the menu below the graphic
and a menu pops up with three selections "ONWER LINK REGISTRATION",
"MANUALS", and "FAQ".
4. I click on MANUALS and that takes me to the following page:
http://www.honda-marine.com/mar_manuals.htm
5. From a menu on the left column I choose SERVICE MANUALS. That takes me
to this page which seems like a different company from Honda:
http://www.helminc.com/helm/search_s...=1%20%0D%0D%0D.
I get a drop-down list for model and document type.
6. I choose "Outboard Motors" under Model (the only choice), "Shop/Service
Information" under Document Type, and click on Search. BTW, this site is
also using Javascript, so that has to be enabled in your browser/firewall.
7. I get a listing of shop manuals for different models, a column for
Quantity, and an "Add to Cart" button. I assume you're be looking for the
BF20D, so there's an entry for BF15D/20D Marine Outboard Shop Manual, price
$51.95, In Stock, English, Paper, 61ZY600.
8. I put 1 on the quantity and click on Add to Cart, and get a Shopping Cart
page where it shows the manual just added and a "Checkout" button.
9. I click on Check Out and get a shipping page where I type my name,
address, and phone.
10. Then I get to a page where it's asking me for a credit card, and I stop
cause I don't want more reading material...:-)

Another alternative is to go straight to the Helm Inc site:
http://www.helminc.com, click on "Aftermarket Do-it-yourself and
independents", choose Honda-Marine for vehicle brand, and then you get to
the same page as in step 5 above.

Like I mentioned, both sides are using Javascript so you need to have it
enabled. If you still can't get to the manual, this must be the problem.
I'm not sure if I can help, but let me know what you're using. Good luck

Sergio


wrote in message
...
On 2/19/05 "Sergio Ramirez" wrote:
Have you tried their website? http://www.honda-marine.com

Thanks yep. The site says you can download this or that but when you
follow the instructions, you end up at a dead end (no download
button/link). I've just assumed their site is still under construction
and they haven't put their active links in yet.
If you can figure out how to do what they say you can do, lemme know.
The site confirms what the telephone menu says though. I'm supposed to
be able to order a parts catalog though any dealer. I'll try that next
week if I can't figure out how to download one by then.
Thanks again
Rick

lid wrote:

That's run time though. The gummy part happens, even to a new motor,
when any fuel is left sitting in the carb for a few weeks. Three weeks
in this case.

I think you would be better off not running it dry. Mine hasn't gummed
up in 5 years and has gone several periods of a month or so without use.

-rick-

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:43:30 -0800, -rick- wrote:

wrote:

That's run time though. The gummy part happens, even to a new motor,
when any fuel is left sitting in the carb for a few weeks. Three weeks
in this case.

I think you would be better off not running it dry. Mine hasn't gummed
up in 5 years and has gone several periods of a month or so without use.

I do much the same with most of my outdoor equipment and my small
Johnson 25. The difference is that I always use Sta-bil or a couple
of ounces per gallon of Marvel Mystery Oil for over winter use.

Ain't failed me yet.

Later,

Tom