in article , Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/26/05 6:58 PM:


BCITORGB wrote:
In case Scott doesn't like the NZ stats, here are some from
Australia...

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb502tabs.xls

Homicides per 100,000 population - average per year 1998 to 2000

USA 5.87
New Zealand 2.28
Sweden 2.06
Australia 1.87
Canada 1.79
England & Wales 1.50
Netherlands 1.40
Germany 1.19
Denmark 1.00


So, for me, these statistics beg the question: WHY? Why is the muder
rate so much higher in the USA? Are there extenuating factors?

Hmmm.....

[in the case of Canada we know, of course, that hundreds of people
are
murdered every year by the state -- waiting in medical treatment
lines
GRIN]

frtzw906

So frtwz, are you acknowledging on KMANs behalf that rick is correct in
what he has been claiming? Now can we all move on? GRIN TnT

Tinkerntom, I'm actually surprised that a man of your high moral stands has
not jumped in to criticize rick for being a liar and a coward. Why is that?

KMAN wrote:
in article ,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/26/05 6:58 PM:


BCITORGB wrote:
In case Scott doesn't like the NZ stats, here are some from
Australia...

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb502tabs.xls

Homicides per 100,000 population - average per year 1998 to 2000

USA 5.87
New Zealand 2.28
Sweden 2.06
Australia 1.87
Canada 1.79
England & Wales 1.50
Netherlands 1.40
Germany 1.19
Denmark 1.00


So, for me, these statistics beg the question: WHY? Why is the
muder
rate so much higher in the USA? Are there extenuating factors?

Hmmm.....

[in the case of Canada we know, of course, that hundreds of people
are
murdered every year by the state -- waiting in medical treatment
lines
GRIN]

frtzw906

So frtwz, are you acknowledging on KMANs behalf that rick is
correct in
what he has been claiming? Now can we all move on? GRIN TnT

Tinkerntom, I'm actually surprised that a man of your high moral
stands has
not jumped in to criticize rick for being a liar and a coward. Why is
that?

I learned in my bar fighting days, that if it's not my fight, there is
nothing gained by getting my nose broke! You and rick look to be having
a good dance, so I don't see no cause to cut in! TnT

Tinkerntom wrote:
KMAN wrote:
in article ,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/26/05 6:58 PM:


BCITORGB wrote:
In case Scott doesn't like the NZ stats, here are some from
Australia...

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb502tabs.xls

Homicides per 100,000 population - average per year 1998 to 2000

USA 5.87
New Zealand 2.28
Sweden 2.06
Australia 1.87
Canada 1.79
England & Wales 1.50
Netherlands 1.40
Germany 1.19
Denmark 1.00


So, for me, these statistics beg the question: WHY? Why is the
muder
rate so much higher in the USA? Are there extenuating factors?

Hmmm.....

[in the case of Canada we know, of course, that hundreds of
people
are
murdered every year by the state -- waiting in medical treatment
lines
GRIN]

frtzw906

So frtwz, are you acknowledging on KMANs behalf that rick is
correct in
what he has been claiming? Now can we all move on? GRIN TnT

Tinkerntom, I'm actually surprised that a man of your high moral
stands has
not jumped in to criticize rick for being a liar and a coward. Why
is
that?

I learned in my bar fighting days, that if it's not my fight, there
is
nothing gained by getting my nose broke! You and rick look to be
having
a good dance, so I don't see no cause to cut in! TnT

I got to thinking, I could offer to hold your hat though, if that'll
make you feel better! TnT

in article , Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/27/05 3:26 AM:


KMAN wrote:
in article ,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/26/05 6:58 PM:


BCITORGB wrote:
In case Scott doesn't like the NZ stats, here are some from
Australia...

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb502tabs.xls

Homicides per 100,000 population - average per year 1998 to 2000

USA 5.87
New Zealand 2.28
Sweden 2.06
Australia 1.87
Canada 1.79
England & Wales 1.50
Netherlands 1.40
Germany 1.19
Denmark 1.00


So, for me, these statistics beg the question: WHY? Why is the
muder
rate so much higher in the USA? Are there extenuating factors?

Hmmm.....

[in the case of Canada we know, of course, that hundreds of people
are
murdered every year by the state -- waiting in medical treatment
lines
GRIN]

frtzw906

So frtwz, are you acknowledging on KMANs behalf that rick is
correct in
what he has been claiming? Now can we all move on? GRIN TnT

Tinkerntom, I'm actually surprised that a man of your high moral
stands has
not jumped in to criticize rick for being a liar and a coward. Why is
that?

I learned in my bar fighting days, that if it's not my fight, there is
nothing gained by getting my nose broke! You and rick look to be having
a good dance, so I don't see no cause to cut in! TnT

You cut in all the time! Why be such a priss on this issue?

FYI, it's not just with me that rick is a liar and a coward. His behavior is
rather universal on that note.

KMAN wrote:
in article ,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/27/05 3:26 AM:


KMAN wrote:
in article ,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/26/05 6:58 PM:


BCITORGB wrote:
In case Scott doesn't like the NZ stats, here are some from
Australia...

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb502tabs.xls

Homicides per 100,000 population - average per year 1998 to 2000

USA 5.87
New Zealand 2.28
Sweden 2.06
Australia 1.87
Canada 1.79
England & Wales 1.50
Netherlands 1.40
Germany 1.19
Denmark 1.00


So, for me, these statistics beg the question: WHY? Why is the
muder
rate so much higher in the USA? Are there extenuating factors?

Hmmm.....

[in the case of Canada we know, of course, that hundreds of
people
are
murdered every year by the state -- waiting in medical treatment
lines
GRIN]

frtzw906

So frtwz, are you acknowledging on KMANs behalf that rick is
correct in
what he has been claiming? Now can we all move on? GRIN TnT

Tinkerntom, I'm actually surprised that a man of your high moral
stands has
not jumped in to criticize rick for being a liar and a coward. Why
is
that?

I learned in my bar fighting days, that if it's not my fight, there
is
nothing gained by getting my nose broke! You and rick look to be
having
a good dance, so I don't see no cause to cut in! TnT

You cut in all the time! Why be such a priss on this issue?

FYI, it's not just with me that rick is a liar and a coward. His
behavior is
rather universal on that note.

On Feb 13, at 6:21 I warned frtwz about engaging in a dialog with rick,
and I have continued to do so on a number of ocassions. At that time I
caught a little heat from r myself. But you have been around for
awhile, and I have observed this phenomenon between the two of you
before. So you should know better!

Besides, on a lot of points, I probably would not necessarily disagree
with the guy, I just try to be a little more civil in my conversation.
Now he has been around for a lot longer than I so maybe he has learned
something that I have yet to learn. However in the meantime I will just
watch and learn, he's a great teacher.

As far as cutting in all the time, I only cut in when I choose to cut
in, and sometimes I choose to not cut in, specially when I stand to get
my toes stepped on. The music you guys have been dancing to is really
bad, and your moves are pretty ugly, but if yu are enjoying it, carry
on. Don't let me interfere! TnT

in article , Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/27/05 4:44 AM:


KMAN wrote:
in article ,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/27/05 3:26 AM:


KMAN wrote:
in article ,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/26/05 6:58 PM:


BCITORGB wrote:
In case Scott doesn't like the NZ stats, here are some from
Australia...

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb502tabs.xls

Homicides per 100,000 population - average per year 1998 to 2000

USA 5.87
New Zealand 2.28
Sweden 2.06
Australia 1.87
Canada 1.79
England & Wales 1.50
Netherlands 1.40
Germany 1.19
Denmark 1.00


So, for me, these statistics beg the question: WHY? Why is the
muder
rate so much higher in the USA? Are there extenuating factors?

Hmmm.....

[in the case of Canada we know, of course, that hundreds of
people
are
murdered every year by the state -- waiting in medical treatment
lines
GRIN]

frtzw906

So frtwz, are you acknowledging on KMANs behalf that rick is
correct in
what he has been claiming? Now can we all move on? GRIN TnT

Tinkerntom, I'm actually surprised that a man of your high moral
stands has
not jumped in to criticize rick for being a liar and a coward. Why
is
that?

I learned in my bar fighting days, that if it's not my fight, there
is
nothing gained by getting my nose broke! You and rick look to be
having
a good dance, so I don't see no cause to cut in! TnT

You cut in all the time! Why be such a priss on this issue?

FYI, it's not just with me that rick is a liar and a coward. His
behavior is
rather universal on that note.

On Feb 13, at 6:21 I warned frtwz about engaging in a dialog with rick,
and I have continued to do so on a number of ocassions. At that time I
caught a little heat from r myself. But you have been around for
awhile, and I have observed this phenomenon between the two of you
before. So you should know better!

Besides, on a lot of points, I probably would not necessarily disagree
with the guy, I just try to be a little more civil in my conversation.
Now he has been around for a lot longer than I so maybe he has learned
something that I have yet to learn. However in the meantime I will just
watch and learn, he's a great teacher.

Of what?

As far as cutting in all the time, I only cut in when I choose to cut
in, and sometimes I choose to not cut in, specially when I stand to get
my toes stepped on. The music you guys have been dancing to is really
bad, and your moves are pretty ugly, but if yu are enjoying it, carry
on. Don't let me interfere! TnT

How so?

Rick is claiming that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for health care,
but he refuses to support his claim, and worse, says that he has done so,
when everyone can see that he hasn't.

That makes him a liar and a coward Tinkerntom, and so to (cowards) are all
those who cower in the closet, afraid that their "toes will get stepped on."

C'mon Tinkerntom, what type of society are we to build here in
rec.boats.paddle if we are not to support the basic building blocks of
logical discussion? Shame on you!

KMAN wrote:
in article ,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/27/05 4:44 AM:


KMAN wrote:
in article ,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/27/05 3:26 AM:


KMAN wrote:
in article
,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/26/05 6:58 PM:


BCITORGB wrote:
In case Scott doesn't like the NZ stats, here are some from
Australia...

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb502tabs.xls

Homicides per 100,000 population - average per year 1998 to
2000

USA 5.87
New Zealand 2.28
Sweden 2.06
Australia 1.87
Canada 1.79
England & Wales 1.50
Netherlands 1.40
Germany 1.19
Denmark 1.00


So, for me, these statistics beg the question: WHY? Why is the
muder
rate so much higher in the USA? Are there extenuating factors?

Hmmm.....

[in the case of Canada we know, of course, that hundreds of
people
are
murdered every year by the state -- waiting in medical
treatment
lines
GRIN]

frtzw906

So frtwz, are you acknowledging on KMANs behalf that rick is
correct in
what he has been claiming? Now can we all move on? GRIN TnT

Tinkerntom, I'm actually surprised that a man of your high moral
stands has
not jumped in to criticize rick for being a liar and a coward.
Why
is
that?

I learned in my bar fighting days, that if it's not my fight,
there
is
nothing gained by getting my nose broke! You and rick look to be
having
a good dance, so I don't see no cause to cut in! TnT

You cut in all the time! Why be such a priss on this issue?

FYI, it's not just with me that rick is a liar and a coward. His
behavior is
rather universal on that note.

On Feb 13, at 6:21 I warned frtwz about engaging in a dialog with
rick,
and I have continued to do so on a number of ocassions. At that
time I
caught a little heat from r myself. But you have been around for
awhile, and I have observed this phenomenon between the two of you
before. So you should know better!

Besides, on a lot of points, I probably would not necessarily
disagree
with the guy, I just try to be a little more civil in my
conversation.
Now he has been around for a lot longer than I so maybe he has
learned
something that I have yet to learn. However in the meantime I will
just
watch and learn, he's a great teacher.

Of what?

More of how! How not to communicate, you don't get your message through
very well with all this spitball shooting.


As far as cutting in all the time, I only cut in when I choose to
cut
in, and sometimes I choose to not cut in, specially when I stand to
get
my toes stepped on. The music you guys have been dancing to is
really
bad, and your moves are pretty ugly, but if yu are enjoying it,
carry
on. Don't let me interfere! TnT

How so?

Well I am not the one getting hit by the spitballs!

Rick is claiming that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for health
care,
but he refuses to support his claim, and worse, says that he has done
so,
when everyone can see that he hasn't.

That makes him a liar and a coward Tinkerntom, and so to (cowards)
are all
those who cower in the closet, afraid that their "toes will get
stepped on."

I've had my nose broke a enough times to show that I am no coward, and
I am certainly not cowering in my closet. I am here in the forum ready
to discuss in a reasonable fashion what so ever I feel inclined to
discuss.

I basically don't know that much about the Canadian Medical System, and
whether people are dying waiting in line, I have no personal knowledge
to make any comments. I have been watching this converstion with rick
to see if any substantial info would surface, and have yet to see
anything that I can really ruminate on from either side. And yet the
bottom line as I see it, is that it is your system, and if it works for
you, that is your business. It would only become my business if someone
tried to enforce the system or some variation here in the States, which
Hillary tried, and at the time, the majority of the people decided that
we preferred the existing system we already have.

Now as far as r being a liar and a coward, I don't know. I came back
refreshed from vacation to find you two carrying on. I don't know when
or where it started, and mostly have tried to ignore your spat. I have
not seen any point in getting involved, or of even going back and
trying to find the supposed and questioned post by either one of you. I
have enough trouble keeping my post square as you well know from our
previous experiences. I have been told back in the beginning by my good
friends Wilko and riverman, not to say anything on the forum, that you
would say to someone face to face. Now seeing that he is a gun nut
(your definition) and possibly walks around with his "Assault weapon"
armed and ready, it might not be wise to walk up to him and call him a
"liar and a coward." So then I find it most profitable to refraim from
doing so here on the net as well.

C'mon Tinkerntom, what type of society are we to build here in
rec.boats.paddle if we are not to support the basic building blocks
of
logical discussion? Shame on you!

Now if you wanted to continue a new thread about the advantages of the
Canadian Health Care system, sometime in the future, maybe there could
be a logical discussion, but I doubt that could happen at this time in
this thread. There appears to be to much macho image at risk between
the two of you. I will look forward to that discussion, and I hope that
I am back on your list of reasonable non cowards! TnT

in article , Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/27/05 2:39 PM:


KMAN wrote:
in article ,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/27/05 4:44 AM:


KMAN wrote:
in article ,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/27/05 3:26 AM:


KMAN wrote:
in article
,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/26/05 6:58 PM:


BCITORGB wrote:
In case Scott doesn't like the NZ stats, here are some from
Australia...

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb502tabs.xls

Homicides per 100,000 population - average per year 1998 to
2000

USA 5.87
New Zealand 2.28
Sweden 2.06
Australia 1.87
Canada 1.79
England & Wales 1.50
Netherlands 1.40
Germany 1.19
Denmark 1.00


So, for me, these statistics beg the question: WHY? Why is the
muder
rate so much higher in the USA? Are there extenuating factors?

Hmmm.....

[in the case of Canada we know, of course, that hundreds of
people
are
murdered every year by the state -- waiting in medical
treatment
lines
GRIN]

frtzw906

So frtwz, are you acknowledging on KMANs behalf that rick is
correct in
what he has been claiming? Now can we all move on? GRIN TnT

Tinkerntom, I'm actually surprised that a man of your high moral
stands has
not jumped in to criticize rick for being a liar and a coward.
Why
is
that?

I learned in my bar fighting days, that if it's not my fight,
there
is
nothing gained by getting my nose broke! You and rick look to be
having
a good dance, so I don't see no cause to cut in! TnT

You cut in all the time! Why be such a priss on this issue?

FYI, it's not just with me that rick is a liar and a coward. His
behavior is
rather universal on that note.

On Feb 13, at 6:21 I warned frtwz about engaging in a dialog with
rick,
and I have continued to do so on a number of ocassions. At that
time I
caught a little heat from r myself. But you have been around for
awhile, and I have observed this phenomenon between the two of you
before. So you should know better!

Besides, on a lot of points, I probably would not necessarily
disagree
with the guy, I just try to be a little more civil in my
conversation.
Now he has been around for a lot longer than I so maybe he has
learned
something that I have yet to learn. However in the meantime I will
just
watch and learn, he's a great teacher.

Of what?

More of how! How not to communicate, you don't get your message through
very well with all this spitball shooting.

Do you think rick is interested in any messages?

He's not even interested in supporting any of his own statements.



As far as cutting in all the time, I only cut in when I choose to
cut
in, and sometimes I choose to not cut in, specially when I stand to
get
my toes stepped on. The music you guys have been dancing to is
really
bad, and your moves are pretty ugly, but if yu are enjoying it,
carry
on. Don't let me interfere! TnT

How so?

Well I am not the one getting hit by the spitballs!

And if you were, you probably wouldn't know!

Rick is claiming that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for health
care,
but he refuses to support his claim, and worse, says that he has done
so,
when everyone can see that he hasn't.

That makes him a liar and a coward Tinkerntom, and so to (cowards)
are all
those who cower in the closet, afraid that their "toes will get
stepped on."

I've had my nose broke a enough times to show that I am no coward

That sounds a bit more like foolish than brave :-D

and
I am certainly not cowering in my closet. I am here in the forum ready
to discuss in a reasonable fashion what so ever I feel inclined to
discuss.

I basically don't know that much about the Canadian Medical System

Neither does rick.

and
whether people are dying waiting in line, I have no personal knowledge
to make any comments. I have been watching this converstion with rick
to see if any substantial info would surface, and have yet to see
anything that I can really ruminate on from either side.

Well Tinkerntom, it's very simple. Rick has made the claim, and he has
failed to support it. Do you agree?

And yet the
bottom line as I see it, is that it is your system, and if it works for
you, that is your business. It would only become my business if someone
tried to enforce the system or some variation here in the States, which
Hillary tried, and at the time, the majority of the people decided that
we preferred the existing system we already have.

But do you agree that rick has made a claim that he has failed to support?
The topic at hand is really quite irrlevant to the question.

Now as far as r being a liar and a coward, I don't know. I came back
refreshed from vacation to find you two carrying on. I don't know when
or where it started, and mostly have tried to ignore your spat. I have
not seen any point in getting involved, or of even going back and
trying to find the supposed and questioned post by either one of you. I
have enough trouble keeping my post square as you well know from our
previous experiences. I have been told back in the beginning by my good
friends Wilko and riverman, not to say anything on the forum, that you
would say to someone face to face. Now seeing that he is a gun nut
(your definition) and possibly walks around with his "Assault weapon"
armed and ready, it might not be wise to walk up to him and call him a
"liar and a coward." So then I find it most profitable to refraim from
doing so here on the net as well.

But do you agree that rick has made a claim that he has failed to support?

C'mon Tinkerntom, what type of society are we to build here in
rec.boats.paddle if we are not to support the basic building blocks
of
logical discussion? Shame on you!

Now if you wanted to continue a new thread about the advantages of the
Canadian Health Care system, sometime in the future, maybe there could
be a logical discussion, but I doubt that could happen at this time in
this thread. There appears to be to much macho image at risk between
the two of you. I will look forward to that discussion, and I hope that
I am back on your list of reasonable non cowards! TnT

This is about basic integrity Tinkerntom. The topic is really a subordinate
issue. It is no different than if rick were to claim that purple kayaks
result in increased death rates.

"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article
,
Tinkerntom

snip...



Rick is claiming that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for
health care,
===============
No fool, I have provided sites that claim that Canadians are
dying in wait lines. YIOU have yet to provide anything that
refutes those sites.


but he refuses to support his claim, and worse, says that he
has done so,
when everyone can see that he hasn't.
=====================
Yes, I have. That you are too stupid, lazy, or ignorant on how
to fully use you computer is your problem. Plus, I have told you
where to go look for yourself on several occasions. YOU are too
afraid to do so, because your ideology will be found wanting.


That makes him a liar and a coward
=====================
So far, the only proven liar and coward has been you, fool.


Tinkerntom, and so to (cowards) are all
those who cower in the closet, afraid that their "toes will get
stepped on."

C'mon Tinkerntom, what type of society are we to build here in
rec.boats.paddle if we are not to support the basic building
blocks of
logical discussion? Shame on you!
====================
ROTFLMAO This from the loony-toon that doesn't have a logical
bone is his body? Stop! The laughing is killing me! At least I
won't have to wait for treatment!

in article et, rick at
wrote on 2/27/05 5:15 PM:


"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article
,
Tinkerntom

snip...



Rick is claiming that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for
health care,
===============
No fool, I have provided sites that claim that Canadians are
dying in wait lines. YIOU have yet to provide anything that
refutes those sites.

Nothing you have ever posted substantiates that claim.

If just one Canadian had died waiting for health care, it would be a
national scandal and featured as a lead story be all media.


but he refuses to support his claim, and worse, says that he
has done so,
when everyone can see that he hasn't.
=====================
Yes, I have. That you are too stupid, lazy, or ignorant on how
to fully use you computer is your problem. Plus, I have told you
where to go look for yourself on several occasions. YOU are too
afraid to do so, because your ideology will be found wanting.

Nothing you have ever posted substantiates your claim.

If just one Canadian had died waiting for health care, it would be a
national scandal and featured as a lead story be all media.



That makes him a liar and a coward
=====================
So far, the only proven liar and coward has been you, fool.

I haven't lied about anything.


Tinkerntom, and so to (cowards) are all
those who cower in the closet, afraid that their "toes will get
stepped on."

C'mon Tinkerntom, what type of society are we to build here in
rec.boats.paddle if we are not to support the basic building
blocks of
logical discussion? Shame on you!
====================
ROTFLMAO This from the loony-toon that doesn't have a logical
bone is his body? Stop! The laughing is killing me! At least I
won't have to wait for treatment!

Unles you are one of the 886,000 African Americans who woudl still be alive
had they received the same care as whites, according to an analysis in the
December issue of the American Journal of Public Health.