On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:23:19 +1100, "K. Smith"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

Sorry to be so long again, but this subject has been a war since 98 &
it seems till Brunswick are all 4 stroke & E-tec has failed it will
continue.

Ah - now I understand the reasons for your antipathy towards FICHT.

NIcely put by the way. I don't agree based on my own personal
experience with FICHTS and what I know about them pre/post-OMC, but
you have reasons and that's fine.

It was interesting. :)

I'm curious though. Your argument about diesel makes some sense -
essentially, FICHT (and Etec for that matter) is diesel technology.
Without going into a long treatise on the subject, I assume your
contention is that FICHT is not a true two stroke and as such,
problematic in the long run?

Later,

Tom

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:23:19 +1100, "K. Smith"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~


Sorry to be so long again, but this subject has been a war since 98 &
it seems till Brunswick are all 4 stroke & E-tec has failed it will
continue.


Ah - now I understand the reasons for your antipathy towards FICHT.

NIcely put by the way. I don't agree based on my own personal
experience with FICHTS and what I know about them pre/post-OMC, but
you have reasons and that's fine.

It was interesting. :)

I'm curious though. Your argument about diesel makes some sense -
essentially, FICHT (and Etec for that matter) is diesel technology.
Without going into a long treatise on the subject, I assume your
contention is that FICHT is not a true two stroke and as such,
problematic in the long run?

No Ficht, Opti, E-tec, Yamaha dfi, are 2 strokes & as such if fed more
normal mixtures "&" the piston's temp controlled then it would/should
survive as well as other 2 strokes.

The Yamahas have been interesting & somewhat more successful, they've
had to resort to 800 psi & in one case 1000 psi petrol injection!!! so
they can get enough atomisation to allow the lean mixtures to burn more
predictably, also even they don't use mixtures as lean as Ficht & Opti.
They randomly shut cyls down at low/med revs, so their aggregate EPA
count still passes, but the pistons don't have to see such extremely
lean mixtures/heat.

It's probably relevant to mention & remember that right throughout the
Ficht debacle & to a lesser extent Opti, they were making almost
identical if not exact same engines, same parts, castings etc, Carbed
Johnsons or EFI Mercs, yet only the Fichts or Opti DFIs failed..... why??

OMC were pushing the 2 strokes at 500cc per cyl that's getting to the
limit, notwithstanding E-tec are going to try even bigger:-) (sorry
that's a cheap shot Tom:-)) Again no secret knowledge involved here it's
well known & understood that the bigger a petrol 2 strokes cyl gets the
more difficulty it has dispersing heat out of the piston. All the high
performance petrol 2 strokes have lots of small cyls. Even Clam's
beloved old Mercs, which have to be the most successful 2 strokes ever
built, had lots & lots of tiny pistons with very low cyl pressures.

I know my view on this is against you Tom & I do apologise but as you
can see I have copped an endless flogging mainly from Krause & the
dealers, so when we were confirmed as right most of them just ran away
leaving the people they'd conned holding the blown engine so to speak.

K


Later,

Tom

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:53:06 +1100, "K. Smith"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

I know my view on this is against you Tom & I do apologise but as you
can see I have copped an endless flogging mainly from Krause & the
dealers, so when we were confirmed as right most of them just ran away
leaving the people they'd conned holding the blown engine so to speak.

I don't' have a problem with opposing viewpoints. I have a rather
simple way of looking at things like this - to wit: If it works, it
works. :)

I will admit I came to FICHT late in the game and I will also admit
that I literally had to be talked into purchasing one. And I will
also admit that I had my share of problems with the OMC FICHT that is
on my Ranger bay boat.

However, Bombardier was more than willing to correct the problems
without cost to me and once the engine was updated and made sound, I
haven't had a problem with it. And the other two that I have, both
Bombardier FICHTS have had zero problems.

However, your discussion points make sense and I'm not discounting
them. My experience has been positive and, for me that's is what is
most important. To me, Mercury is the spawn of the devil and will
remain that way until I can't get in a boat anymore. And it wasn't
over their engines, it was over a $1,000 trolling motor that they
refused to fix under warranty - sometimes the little things are bigger
issues than the big things. :)

Later,

Tom

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:53:06 +1100, "K. Smith"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~


I know my view on this is against you Tom & I do apologise but as you
can see I have copped an endless flogging mainly from Krause & the
dealers, so when we were confirmed as right most of them just ran away
leaving the people they'd conned holding the blown engine so to speak.


I don't' have a problem with opposing viewpoints. I have a rather
simple way of looking at things like this - to wit: If it works, it
works. :)

Glad to hear it & definitely glad to have someone sane in the
discussion indeed I hope you give us all the benefit of your soon to be,
E-tec ownership & it goes without saying, regardless of how E-tec
performs generally we always wish real rec.boaters nothing but the best.


I will admit I came to FICHT late in the game and I will also admit
that I literally had to be talked into purchasing one. And I will
also admit that I had my share of problems with the OMC FICHT that is
on my Ranger bay boat.

However, Bombardier was more than willing to correct the problems
without cost to me and once the engine was updated and made sound, I
haven't had a problem with it. And the other two that I have, both
Bombardier FICHTS have had zero problems.

I think Bomb did try to have a better attitude than OMC (wouldn't be
hard:-)) certainly they got the OMC carcass cheap enough that they could
afford a bit of largess, which they didn't skimp on.


However, your discussion points make sense and I'm not discounting
them. My experience has been positive and, for me that's is what is
most important. To me, Mercury is the spawn of the devil and will
remain that way until I can't get in a boat anymore. And it wasn't
over their engines, it was over a $1,000 trolling motor that they
refused to fix under warranty - sometimes the little things are bigger
issues than the big things. :)

Crazy isn't it?? they lost many many times 10s of that business over a
trivial matter, yet Bomb have you as a good customer because they did
the right thing. Good on ya I wish more people stuck to their guns in
that way, after a while the products themselves & service would improve
for everyone, so thanks.

K

Later,

Tom