I a fully aware of the minimum wage, my point being that having a minimum
wage is simply wrong.....If a worker is willing to work for $4.00 an hour,
why is it the guvmint position to say, no he can't.

Because the difference in the actual cost of subsisting in society and four
bucks an hour is going to be picked up by the taxpayers through subsidized
housing, food stamps, free medical care, etc. The lower the wages paid, the
greater the amount of money the government will need to provide to prevent the
kids from literally starving and to prevent poor people from dying when they
get ill. Enabling an employer to pay almost nothing in wages by providing
social services is a form of *corporate* welfare, moreso than individual
welfare.

Because the starving are not in a position to bargain fairly and equitably with
a prospective employer. Hell, most of the guys you want to hire for $4 an hour
would probably work for $1.50- at least until lunch when they could take their
$6 half day paycheck to McDonalds and get a sack full of something resembling
food.

You lost, Chuck.

Better than being lost. Any day.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
You lost, Chuck.

Better than being lost. Any day.

But you apparently are.

My non union tile guy, floated the floor the way they did 30 yrs ago. Rock
solid and first class. My only complaint was he was such a perfectionist it
took him forever, but that is a small price to pay for quality work

"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" wrote in message
news:rJuid.569570$8_6.431800@attbi_s04...
It is illegal for anyone to pay someone less than minimum wage, and
wither you agree with it or not, you should not break the law. If
someone knows an employer who is breaking the law, they should turn them
in so they can be prosecuted. Why should an employer pay more than the
market price for labor? I know there are many skilled Mexican
construction workers who earn substantially more than minimum wage. I
replaced tile in my bathroom and the contractor was paying the Mexican
$35/hr plus benefits. If an unskilled worker wants to earn more than
minimum wage, he needs to learn a skill and increase his value.

I a fully aware of the minimum wage, my point being that having a minimum
wage is simply wrong.....If a worker is willing to work for $4.00 an hour,
why is it the guvmint position to say, no he can't. I am well aware of
the skill and work ethic of Mexican workers. Th crew that did my house
addition never stopped working, and finished the job in half the time a
union crew would have.



"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" wrote in message
news:Iluid.354168$MQ5.90388@attbi_s52...
Gould,
Do you have something against unskilled Mexicans who are willing to
work for minimum wage?

He's just showing the typical liebral snobbery.

If mexicans are willing to come here and work 12 hours a day for 4 bucks
an hour, live with 5 others and send half the money home....so what.

They most likely consider it a step up from the $5 a DAY that they were
making at home. It is the liebrals that don't want that sort of
immigration, because it kills their union thug donations.



"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
We should have a similar "weighting" system when people try to
immigrate here. But the liberals would have a fit and claim that we
are being "discriminatory"...

Dave

When people try to immigrate here, the most important test is whether
they are
willing to work for some member of the Chamber of Commerce down in San
Diego or
some wealthy rancher in AZ for about
half the federal minimum wage. Then its all about nod nod, wink wink,
you *did*
have a
SSN#, didn't you?

The conservative business community is the number one promoter of
questionable
immigration into the US. Their greed for workers willing to work at
starvation
wages enables the "immigrants".

My non union tile guy, floated the floor the way they did 30 yrs ago. Rock
solid and first class. My only complaint was he was such a perfectionist it
took him forever, but that is a small price to pay for quality work

Nothing wrong with non-union labor. I never worry about whether a contractor is
union, or not. Right now the same guy who put in our new kitchen a couple of
years ago is
redoing all of our bathrooms. I've hired him to put kitchens and baths
elsewhere as well. When he showed up for the bathroom tearouts, he did pass the
most important test.

"I guess with all those yard signs, you must be voting for change. That's
great, me too!"

(Never get on the wrong side of a political argument with a guy busting up an
old tub with a sledge hammer). :-)

Guys who are anti-uinion can very effectively dissuade labor from organizing:
pay a fair and equitable wage, competitive benefits, and treat people right.
Nobody who is already enjoying about the same wages and benefits the union
workers get is going to be the least bit interested in paying union dues for
nothing in return.

But you apparently are.

I finally figured you out, JimH. You're a put-on. It's been obvious for a
while, but since you began using it as your email address you have revealed the
essence of the canard:

Everytime somebody makes a snide remark, you jump in to reinforce it. All this
time I thought it was a personality defect, but it turns out to be a game
played by a guy with the email address "me2@......"

Nicely done.

Gould,

You are correct about treating employees fair and you will not have to worry
about unions, but .......

What do you recommend doing for unskilled people working for such low pay?
If you just keep raising the minimum wage, they will not have any reason to
learn a skill. If you just keep raising minimum wage without an increase in
productivity, you will have inflation, which is the most regressive tax,
because it hurts the poor and those on fixed income the most.




"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
My non union tile guy, floated the floor the way they did 30 yrs ago.
Rock
solid and first class. My only complaint was he was such a perfectionist
it
took him forever, but that is a small price to pay for quality work

Nothing wrong with non-union labor. I never worry about whether a
contractor is
union, or not. Right now the same guy who put in our new kitchen a couple
of
years ago is
redoing all of our bathrooms. I've hired him to put kitchens and baths
elsewhere as well. When he showed up for the bathroom tearouts, he did
pass the
most important test.

"I guess with all those yard signs, you must be voting for change. That's
great, me too!"

(Never get on the wrong side of a political argument with a guy busting up
an
old tub with a sledge hammer). :-)

Guys who are anti-uinion can very effectively dissuade labor from
organizing:
pay a fair and equitable wage, competitive benefits, and treat people
right.
Nobody who is already enjoying about the same wages and benefits the union
workers get is going to be the least bit interested in paying union dues
for
nothing in return.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
You lost, Chuck.

Better than being lost. Any day.

But you apparently are.

I finally figured you out, JimH. You're a put-on. It's been obvious for a
while, but since you began using it as your email address you have
revealed the
essence of the canard:

Everytime somebody makes a snide remark, you jump in to reinforce it. All
this
time I thought it was a personality defect, but it turns out to be a game
played by a guy with the email address "me2@......"

Nicely done.


You through out an insult and I simply threw one back at you.

You are a gem. A sniveling, whining gem who cannot accept the defeat of his
candidate graciously and move on in life.

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
You lost, Chuck.

Better than being lost. Any day.

But you apparently are.

I finally figured you out, JimH. You're a put-on. It's been obvious for a
while, but since you began using it as your email address you have
revealed the
essence of the canard:

Everytime somebody makes a snide remark, you jump in to reinforce it. All
this
time I thought it was a personality defect, but it turns out to be a game
played by a guy with the email address "me2@......"

Nicely done.


You through out an insult and I simply threw one back at you.

You are a gem. A sniveling, whining gem who cannot accept the defeat of
his candidate graciously and move on in life.



Doh! It should say "You *threw* out an insult.."

I committed a Bassy. LOL!

What do you recommend doing for unskilled people working for such low pay?
If you just keep raising the minimum wage, they will not have any reason to
learn a skill.

A recommendation based on experience:

When I ran businesses where I had a lot of employees, (well sort of "a lot"-
had about 65 once), there were always a few entry level jobs that paid minimum
wage. I guaranteed my commission sales people minimum wage, but they also
understood I guaranteed they'd be putting their desk in a cardboard box if they
didn't nearly always exceed mini-wage by a substantial amount.

A business organization thrives as it brings its people up, not as it holds
them down.
The kid that hires on as a mini-wage lot boy shuffling cars around and picking
up trash will hopefully prove to be a good employee that you train to become a
higher-wage detailer or lube rack technician. If not, you dismiss him and
replace him with somebody that can help the organization grow. No reasonable
business person wants an employee who is so marginally productive that it makes
no sense to pay more than $7.15 (current mniwage in our state) per hour.

When a guy says, "I can't afford to pay my help more than $7.15 an hour", he's
really stating, (IMO) that he's a lousy manager and unable to motivate his
people to be productive. Business is all about getting rich, but in its best
form it is also about enriching others along the way.

The guy who thinks he's got the world dicked because his $7 an hour employees
produce $30 an hour gross profit is usually lucky to rise above lower middle
class himself. Give me a $15-25 an hour guy who can produce $100 an hour any
day over a miniwager who can barely justify his nothing salary. I'll take as
many hundred dollar bills (that I can buy for $25@) as I can get, and thank you
very much. :-)