On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 07:13:45 -0500, JohnH wrote:

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 07:06:19 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 21:38:10 -0500, John Gaquin wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
news:bs04l7$7r3t6


The righties make the argument that the U.S. Constitution only applies
to U.S. citizens in the USA or, at best, to some foreigners living in
the U.S.....Far too rigid.

On what legal basis would you hold that the US Constitution must apply
to non-citizens? US citizens in foreign countries are subject to
whatever laws apply in the host country, with no regard to whatever
protections they may enjoy at home. We owe no benefit or consideration
to non-citizens, particularly to non-citizens doing us harm.

On what legal basis would you not? The Constitution doesn't distinguish
between citizens and non-citizens. Nor does the Bill of Rights grant us
civil liberties. It specifically limits the government from infringing
on our rights. Or did you forget this line from the Declaration of
Independence: " We hold these truths to be self-evident, that *all* men
are created equal..."

Thunder, could you imagine us going into France and telling them they must
live under the provisions of *our* constitution? If you read the
constitution, you will find the Preamble to read: "We the people of the
United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice,
insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the
general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our
posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States
of America."

You'll have noted that the Constitution was ordained and established for
the United States of America. We can't just arbitrarily put the name of
any country at the end of the Preamble.

I wouldn't disagree, if that is what John meant. As I read his post, I
perhaps incorrectly assumed, that he would limit civil liberties to
American citizens. In point of law, they are extended to anyone on
American soil, citizens and non-citizens, and I personally think they
should be extended to anyone under American control, e.g. Guantanamo. If
my assumption was in error, my apologies.