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"Gunner" wrote Damned shame more of the 13 terrorists were not killed. I think there were more than 13 Guardsmen on site that day... Dan |
"JohnH" wrote in message ... On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:41:38 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:19:43 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:50:07 GMT, Nicholas Heyward wrote: Tom S wrote: On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:17:53 -0500, Icon O'Clast wrote: Terrorist Attack at Ohio School -- 13 shot, 4 dead Kent State, May 4, 1970. Lessons from History News(c) 2004 You are an asshole. Posting this on 9/11. Go **** yourself you slimey piece of ****! We will never forget. Good thing too. Never forget that charging a group of scared, heavily armed people with mayhem on your mind may lead to your death. Gunner "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke It was a case of poorly trained for the job guardsmen. According to you any time the police arrive at a riot and there are things being tossed, they should start shooting? Bill Your reading comprehension issues are noted. And laughed at. You didnt get a passing grade in Logic, 101 did you? Gunner Seems you have no reading comprehension or any logic background what so ever. So, I ask again, the cops should shoot when ever things are thrown at them? You do realize that posting to: Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.survivalism,rec.boats just invites more crap into this group. Right? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! Actually mine posts do not cross post. Mindspring does not support those groups. |
"Gunner" wrote in message ... On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:19:43 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message Good thing too. Never forget that charging a group of scared, heavily armed people with mayhem on your mind may lead to your death. It was a case of poorly trained for the job guardsmen. According to you any time the police arrive at a riot and there are things being tossed, they should start shooting? Bill Your reading comprehension issues are noted. And laughed at. You didnt get a passing grade in Logic, 101 did you? He reads and does logic just fine. He just doesn't believe you, indicating he has some level of intelligence, as well. Dan |
"Jim" wrote I believe the criteria is to answer lethal violence with lethal violence. Wow! A Neocon who sides with the government in Ruby Ridge and Waco! Will the world never cease to amaze? Dan |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Nick Hull wrote: In article , Jim wrote: Lawful my ass! -- no order to shoot was given, several of those killed were not part of the demenstration, merely walking to class and hit by "errant" bullets It's lawful anytime the law (gov t) does it. It's unlawful anytime you protest the law. Scumbags (taxpayers) are not entitled to the bill of rights ;) It's just another example, albeit historial, of the wonderful face of democracy we offer the world when the fascist Republicans are in office. I bet that you learned that from your Marist pals who said that anybody that thought they were nuts were Fascists. Is it ok if we refer to you a jewish pinko communist puke. -- Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal! And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to! |
Hell sonny boy..I was there. As a interested bystander less than 5
days after the riots ended. So you didn't see squat. Funny that the congressional investigation that concluded the guardsmen were clearly in the wrong didn't call you to testify. Heck, you could have been all the help in the world- with hearsay evidence only five days after the fact. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Gunner wrote: On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:07:05 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: If you consider mayhem and assault, vandalism and violence to be proper expressions of Dissent, then pray to whatever you hold holy that the Right never takes your lead. We are the ones heavily armed, military trained in killing people and breaking things. You will pray for rocks if the Right ever uses your style of dissent. Gunner Yeah, the "right" sticks to blowing up federal office buildings, abortion clinics, and invading the wrong countries...for now. Cites? Or are you going to give me some cites about individuals? Virtually all the terrorist attacks of significance in recent years have been the work of conservative, right-wing assholes and the groups to which they belong...Osama, McVeigh, Cheney, et al. Want me to post some cites about individuals on the Left? I can you know...quite a number. I don't give a crap what you post, dickwiper. You're now in my bozo bin, along with the other mental defectives. Writing under another name again Brian, Posts by you under any name are so easy to recognize. Written by and egomaniac who thinks that only he has the right answer to every problem, And if someone dares to disagree with him, he unleashes a torrent of vile hate and abusive langauge. Come to think of it you remind me very much of the little corporal who so loved to hate everybody in the world And like your communist idols those that disagreed with him were eliminated. For now you can only attempt to smear those you dislike with hate. But should people like you ever can any real power the world is in for the biggest blood bath in history. Gunner, eh? Did your mama name you after the dog? -- Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal! And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to! |
Sigh..first one of you clods claims it was 60 feet, another 600,
another 6 feet. Wont any of you bozos actually do the research and get back to us with a firm answer? That's an odd comment, Gunner. You insist the students were charging the guardsmen, and that it was "hand to hand" combat. Why would you need somebody to research the distances for you? (The congressional investigation listed several students who were shot from between 300-400 feet away). |
Leftists are scum. And they kill people in megadoses.
Gunner When you can't mount a convincing argument, resort to name calling and wild accusations. |
McVeigh was a stooge for the left wing Clinton Administration.
Wo. Has somebody gotten into your head and rewired things, or what? McVeigh was a White Supremicist, neo-nazi. About as far right as you can get. |
Gunner wrote:
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:41:38 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote Seems you have no reading comprehension or any logic background what so ever. So, I ask again, the cops should shoot when ever things are thrown at them? Of course not. Its on a case by case basis. If the crowd was hurling deadly ping pong balls at them, Id say no. If the crowd was hurling molotov cocktails, or rocks or bottles at them, Id have to say yes. So remember boys and girls..if you dont want to die..dont hurl deadly objects at the men with guns. If you really want to hurt them, get your own guns and have a pitched battle. Gunner There is no middle ground between a peaceful protest and an ambush. To have a successful peaceful protest all of the protesters must remain peaceful even if the opposition is not. At Kent State the National Guard was peaceful though well armed. But a few protesters chose to use rocks against troops with firearms. A thrown rock is a lethal weapon. Before firearms became common tremendous numbers of battle deaths resulted from thrown rocks (mostly from slings). The rock throwing was exceptionally foolish as it justified (and arguably required) the troops to fire in self defense. Had most of the protesters thrown rocks they could have killed the guardsmen who were greatly outnumbered. The fault (if fault needs to be assigned) lies with a few undiciplined rock throwers, not with the National Guard. |
"Dan" wrote in message ... "Gunner" wrote Of course no order to fire was given. And as Ive previously noted..if Im attacked by a mob, Im not going to wait for a fire order. Were they attacked by a mob, they would have been justified in firing. As to having no business on campus..when an area is under riot conditions, that is exactly what the Guard is for. There were no riot conditions, so the Guard should not have been ordered onto campus. Simple. But, of course, to Neocons, any peaceful protest is a "riot." I guess that comes from being ignorant cowards. Dan Sure Danny boy we have all seen what you refer to as peacefull demonstrations. Like blocking traffic or preventing those with business to go about there business. Throwing rocks bottle and glass, throwing plastic bags full of urine and feces. Usually a bunch of dumb kids who are egged on by worthless filthy mindless grown up (physically only)hippies who then stay out of harms way. I really wonder just how peacefull you would be if someone clobbered you with a bottle or a rock, perhaps you would love to be zapped with a bag of **** or hit in the face with a bag of ****. Peacefull dissent my ass. |
WallyInferno bleats:
-Then vote bush out of office. He is creating more terrorists on a daily basis. Open your eyes and mind.- Bilge- Hey, ****head, it ain't about YOUR politics...savvy? It ain't about MY politics. It's about common decency...not playing mind games with people on edge (for very good reason). It's about not scrambling atop a pile of bodies to use as a soapbox to inflict your bull**** political manifesto...no one elected you spokesman of anything. Since you've got such a smart litlle cock-sucker of a mouth on you, here's your instructions: Go find your pal while he's off ****ing himself like he was told to, and suck his ass until your cheeks burst with ****. After you're done with that, feel free to vote for whoever you want to, butt-blug. Open your mouth and start suckin'. Mutiny is a Management Tool Select Your Tattoo while Sober |
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Leftists are scum. And they kill people in megadoses. Gunner When you can't mount a convincing argument, resort to name calling and wild accusations. Where are you when Harry fit's this M.O.? |
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:19:01 -0700, Louis Boyd
wrote: There is no middle ground between a peaceful protest and an ambush. To have a successful peaceful protest all of the protesters must remain peaceful even if the opposition is not. At Kent State the National Guard was peaceful though well armed. But a few protesters chose to use rocks against troops with firearms. A thrown rock is a lethal weapon. Before firearms became common tremendous numbers of battle deaths resulted from thrown rocks (mostly from slings). The rock throwing was exceptionally foolish as it justified (and arguably required) the troops to fire in self defense. Had most of the protesters thrown rocks they could have killed the guardsmen who were greatly outnumbered. The fault (if fault needs to be assigned) lies with a few undiciplined rock throwers, not with the National Guard. Pot Kettle Black Palestinian Rock Throwers vs. Kent State Students Pot Kettle Black |
"Louis Boyd" wrote in message ... Gunner wrote: On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:41:38 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote Seems you have no reading comprehension or any logic background what so ever. So, I ask again, the cops should shoot when ever things are thrown at them? Of course not. Its on a case by case basis. If the crowd was hurling deadly ping pong balls at them, Id say no. If the crowd was hurling molotov cocktails, or rocks or bottles at them, Id have to say yes. So remember boys and girls..if you dont want to die..dont hurl deadly objects at the men with guns. If you really want to hurt them, get your own guns and have a pitched battle. Gunner There is no middle ground between a peaceful protest and an ambush. To have a successful peaceful protest all of the protesters must remain peaceful even if the opposition is not. At Kent State the National Guard was peaceful though well armed. But a few protesters chose to use rocks against troops with firearms. A thrown rock is a lethal weapon. Before firearms became common tremendous numbers of battle deaths resulted from thrown rocks (mostly from slings). The rock throwing was exceptionally foolish as it justified (and arguably required) the troops to fire in self defense. Had most of the protesters thrown rocks they could have killed the guardsmen who were greatly outnumbered. The fault (if fault needs to be assigned) lies with a few undiciplined rock throwers, not with the National Guard. Jeeze, you logic is totally FUBAR |
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 03:03:03 +0000, Steve Canyon wrote:
LOL Yeah, Krause is exactly the sort of guy I would expect to have a bunch of malcontents at his beck and call. Hey Harry, why don't you bring your troop of screw-ups, dead-beats and flunkies down here to western Florida. We definitely know how to handle malcontents down here. Rosewood comes to mind. |
Gunner wrote in message . ..
Leftists are scum. And they kill people in megadoses. Wingers start wars based on lies. They even attack the wrong folks. They are thus murderers and crazed loons. The people involved in the attacks of 9-11 were wingers & fundies. Wingers love their shiney boom-boom sticks and pretenses of power. They are idiots. And, seemingly, scum. HTH -- Cliff |
Gunner wrote in message . ..
When Im charged by a violent crowd ..I most certainly will not wait to be killed or injured, before employing deadly force in the defense of myself or others. It's generally not a good idea to shoot at police or members of the armed forces. Should you feel free to do so? An exception be made? -- Cliff |
Gunner wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:45:38 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: Johnny Bravo wrote: Teresa Heinz Kerry has recently been photographed picking her ass hair and nose hair at the same time!! I wonder if Johnny butt****s her? Another dumb as dirt Bush dick sucker, eh? Betcha your manhood is tied up in your pistolas. Another dumb as dirt Kerry lefty who equates firearms with manhood. Btw..you have a problem with gays and their sexual practices? What ever happened to Tolerance and Diversity. In fact..thats actually hate speech for you to use that as some sort of insult. But then..we all know its ok for the Left to use hate speech. Just as long as no one else does. Homophobe. Joined the Log Cabin Republicans did you? Thought you were prime NRA braindead. How times change. -- Cliff |
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 05:01:47 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote: "Louis Boyd" wrote in message ... Gunner wrote: On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:41:38 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote Seems you have no reading comprehension or any logic background what so ever. So, I ask again, the cops should shoot when ever things are thrown at them? Of course not. Its on a case by case basis. If the crowd was hurling deadly ping pong balls at them, Id say no. If the crowd was hurling molotov cocktails, or rocks or bottles at them, Id have to say yes. So remember boys and girls..if you dont want to die..dont hurl deadly objects at the men with guns. If you really want to hurt them, get your own guns and have a pitched battle. Gunner There is no middle ground between a peaceful protest and an ambush. To have a successful peaceful protest all of the protesters must remain peaceful even if the opposition is not. At Kent State the National Guard was peaceful though well armed. But a few protesters chose to use rocks against troops with firearms. A thrown rock is a lethal weapon. Before firearms became common tremendous numbers of battle deaths resulted from thrown rocks (mostly from slings). The rock throwing was exceptionally foolish as it justified (and arguably required) the troops to fire in self defense. Had most of the protesters thrown rocks they could have killed the guardsmen who were greatly outnumbered. The fault (if fault needs to be assigned) lies with a few undiciplined rock throwers, not with the National Guard. Jeeze, you logic is totally FUBAR Blink blink...how so? Are you going to let a large crowd of rioters throw rocks and lethal objects at you and not respond in self defense? If so..what color would you like your chalk outline be drawn in? Gunner "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke |
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 03:11:28 GMT, "Jeff McCann"
wrote: "Julian D." wrote in message .. . On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:52:12 -0700, jps wrote: In article , says... I despise malcontent protesters. Well then, you're probably not the best person to consider the consequences of such action, are you? jps I'm wise enough to avoid doing anything that would get my skull crushed by a police baton. It takes real guts to confront the cops in a peaceful protest. It wasn't so long ago that swinging batons, firehoses, tear gas, and attack dogs were the all too common approach to dissent. Very recently, we saw official intimidation and unlawful detentions used against protester in NYC. Standing up to be counted is a dangerous undertaking, even in our supposedly enlightened era. But sometimes it just has to be done, and that means somebody has to find the guts to do it. Jeff Please provide cites of unlawful police activity in NYC during the Rep. Convention. No blogs please. Gunner "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke |
Lawrence Glickman wrote:
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:19:01 -0700, Louis Boyd wrote: There is no middle ground between a peaceful protest and an ambush. To have a successful peaceful protest all of the protesters must remain peaceful even if the opposition is not. At Kent State the National Guard was peaceful though well armed. But a few protesters chose to use rocks against troops with firearms. A thrown rock is a lethal weapon. Before firearms became common tremendous numbers of battle deaths resulted from thrown rocks (mostly from slings). The rock throwing was exceptionally foolish as it justified (and arguably required) the troops to fire in self defense. Had most of the protesters thrown rocks they could have killed the guardsmen who were greatly outnumbered. The fault (if fault needs to be assigned) lies with a few undiciplined rock throwers, not with the National Guard. Pot Kettle Black Palestinian Rock Throwers vs. Kent State Students Pot Kettle Black What's the pot & kettle stuff? Self defense is justified assuming the "defender" has not provoked the attack. As this is a survivalist group it should be noted that it's dangerous to be a member of a pacifist protest group. In doing so you put your life in the hands of the weakest person in the group who might be goaded to violence or even of an outsider who joins the group after it's formed. It's not safe to be a policeman or soldier who's placed in the position of facing such a group either. |
Dan wrote:
"Gunner" wrote Still longing for the days of the USSR? Perhaps he is just tired of the US&A being run by dickwads... Incompetent lying killer dickwads. Dan |
Gunner wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:33:18 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: It's lawful anytime the law (gov t) does it. It's unlawful anytime you protest the law. Scumbags (taxpayers) are not entitled to the bill of rights ;) It's just another example, albeit historial, of the wonderful face of democracy we offer the world when the fascist Republicans are in office. I must say that its a wonderful change from the face of democracy we offer the world when the fascist Democrats are in office. Yep. Debate and facts are such terrible things to argue about. Kind of hard to get the dems to do much without someone wanting facts and thought first. Then they may argue for years .... It's much better to just have secret cameras in your bedroom and your phone tapped and bunkers searched while the deficit spending builds and more "terrorists" are created by the secret Imperials with prayer meetings on the taxpayer dollar (and trying to sneak into the schools) ... HAND -- Cliff |
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On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:13:43 -0400, thunder
wrote: On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 03:03:03 +0000, Steve Canyon wrote: LOL Yeah, Krause is exactly the sort of guy I would expect to have a bunch of malcontents at his beck and call. Hey Harry, why don't you bring your troop of screw-ups, dead-beats and flunkies down here to western Florida. We definitely know how to handle malcontents down here. Rosewood comes to mind. LOL, watch a liberal moron play the race card, .....as if they ever had exclusive ownership of it.. -- "I have the right to vote against him in the next election." --Zepp Jamieson, 1996 http://www.google.com/groups?as_umsg....snowcrest.net "I will throw my vote away on a 3rd party candidate." --Zepp Jamieson,2000/02/15 http://www.google.com/groups?selm=38....snowcrest.net "You just doubled the value of my vote." --Zepp Jamieson, 2000/04/25 http://www.google.com/groups?selm=39....snowcrest.net [...] if we decide elections by square miles, my vote is worth 200 Los Angeles votes. --Zepp Jamieson, 2000-12-18 http://www.google.com/groups?selm=tb...x.com&oe=UTF-8 "Legal resident alien Zepp Jamieson, a Canadian who has lived in the United States for more than 30 years, said his status changed dramatically with the Patriot Act." http://www.mtshastanews.com/archives...695-news11.txt Legal resident aliens aren't allowed to vote, Jamieson. Why were you pretending to be a citizen? |
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 07:49:25 +0000, Gunner wrote:
Please provide cites of unlawful police activity in NYC during the Rep. Convention. No blogs please. http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...tion.protests/ |
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:54:45 GMT, Gunner
wrote: Another dumb as dirt Bush dick sucker, eh? Betcha your manhood is tied up in your pistolas. Another dumb as dirt Kerry lefty who equates firearms with manhood. More likely he realizes that someone like you, that has to beat your gums about their guns, is inadequate in some way. You are way too obvious. You telegraph your moves. You would be the jittery one, probably talking to yourself. Way easy to pick off. |
thunder wrote:
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 07:49:25 +0000, Gunner wrote: Please provide cites of unlawful police activity in NYC during the Rep. Convention. No blogs please. http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...tion.protests/ For the record, these were unlawful arrests. Unlawful arrests may be resisted by whatever force necessary. The NYC protestors would have been within thier rights to stop the unlawful arrests. |
What a pleasant person you are, bilge rat.
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"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... McVeigh was a stooge for the left wing Clinton Administration. Wo. Has somebody gotten into your head and rewired things, or what? And to think just minutes ago *you* posted: "When you can't mount a convincing argument, resort to name calling and wild accusations." Pot kettle black. |
E.E.Bud Keith wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Nick Hull wrote: In article , Jim wrote: Lawful my ass! -- no order to shoot was given, several of those killed were not part of the demenstration, merely walking to class and hit by "errant" bullets It's lawful anytime the law (gov t) does it. It's unlawful anytime you protest the law. Scumbags (taxpayers) are not entitled to the bill of rights ;) It's just another example, albeit historial, of the wonderful face of democracy we offer the world when the fascist Republicans are in office. I bet that you learned that from your Marist pals who said that anybody that thought they were nuts were Fascists. Is it ok if we refer to you a jewish pinko communist puke. -- Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal! And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to! We all *knew* what a complete ****ing right wing ignoramus you are, "Bud".. Now we see that you are also a goddam racist. Well, that seems to be Common Feature Number 2 among the goddam Noble Republican turds. Eat ****, Bud. -- "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful. And so are we.. Our enemies never stop thinking about ways to harm our country and our people. And neither do we.." -George W. Bush, August 5, 2002 |
E.E.Bud Keith wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Gunner wrote: On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:07:05 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: If you consider mayhem and assault, vandalism and violence to be proper expressions of Dissent, then pray to whatever you hold holy that the Right never takes your lead. We are the ones heavily armed, military trained in killing people and breaking things. You will pray for rocks if the Right ever uses your style of dissent. Gunner Yeah, the "right" sticks to blowing up federal office buildings, abortion clinics, and invading the wrong countries...for now. Cites? Or are you going to give me some cites about individuals? Virtually all the terrorist attacks of significance in recent years have been the work of conservative, right-wing assholes and the groups to which they belong...Osama, McVeigh, Cheney, et al. Want me to post some cites about individuals on the Left? I can you know...quite a number. I don't give a crap what you post, dickwiper. You're now in my bozo bin, along with the other mental defectives. Writing under another name again Brian, Posts by you under any name are so easy to recognize. Written by and egomaniac who thinks that only he has the right answer to every problem, And if someone dares to disagree with him, he unleashes a torrent of vile hate and abusive langauge. Come to think of it you remind me very much of the little corporal who so loved to hate everybody in the world And like your communist idols those that disagreed with him were eliminated. For now you can only attempt to smear those you dislike with hate. But should people like you ever can any real power the world is in for the biggest blood bath in history. Gunner, eh? Did your mama name you after the dog? -- Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal! And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to! Yes, anyone NOT being a ****ing right wing moron like "Bud" just has to be a communist.. Get back to being McCarthy, you fascist little right wing ignoramus. -- "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful. And so are we.. Our enemies never stop thinking about ways to harm our country and our people. And neither do we.." -George W. Bush, August 5, 2002 |
E.E.Bud Keith wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message ... "Gunner" wrote Of course no order to fire was given. And as Ive previously noted..if Im attacked by a mob, Im not going to wait for a fire order. Were they attacked by a mob, they would have been justified in firing. As to having no business on campus..when an area is under riot conditions, that is exactly what the Guard is for. There were no riot conditions, so the Guard should not have been ordered onto campus. Simple. But, of course, to Neocons, any peaceful protest is a "riot." I guess that comes from being ignorant cowards. Dan Sure Danny boy we have all seen what you refer to as peacefull demonstrations. Like blocking traffic or preventing those with business to go about there business. Throwing rocks bottle and glass, throwing plastic bags full of urine and feces. Usually a bunch of dumb kids who are egged on by worthless filthy mindless grown up (physically only)hippies who then stay out of harms way. I really wonder just how peacefull you would be if someone clobbered you with a bottle or a rock, perhaps you would love to be zapped with a bag of **** or hit in the face with a bag of ****. Peacefull dissent my ass. Learn to spell 'peaceful', Ignoramus "Bud".. Throwing feces? Well, that seems to be a major capability you goddam Noble Republican turds have mastered. -- "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful. And so are we.. Our enemies never stop thinking about ways to harm our country and our people. And neither do we.." -George W. Bush, August 5, 2002 |
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Leftists are scum. And they kill people in megadoses. Gunner When you can't mount a convincing argument, resort to name calling and wild accusations. The Gould hypocrisy rears its two faced head again. |
When you can't mount a convincing argument, resort to name calling and
wild accusations. The Gould hypocrisy rears its two faced head again. I should have said, "name calling, wild accusations, and personal attacks". As far as (I forget just whose) observation that I don't criticize Harry for the same behavior- that's BS. I criticized Harry within the last few days for his unfortunate choice of style. I just don't make it my life's work to chase Harry through the NG. I only read about 10% of what he posts- particularly when a thread has devolved to name calling. With a half dozen people in the NG whose sole function is to flame Harry Krause no matter what he says, I don't need to join the chorus. (Besides, the company in that particular group is often a little sketchy, and often throws a bit of crap my way as well). Harry's case is pretty sad. He's smart enough to have a choice, and he chooses a style that alienates almost everybody. Some of the other folks who try to personalize every issue lack the brains to discuss a complex issue (beyond repeating the "talking points" of the day) and they are doing the best they can. This "Gunner" character is quite a piece of work. He repeats the wild distortion that I have never heard *anybody* except Limbaugh or Hannity espouse....(that the heroic Guardsmen at Kent State were defending their lives against an enraged mob of rioting, drug crazed, communist students charging them with rocks and bottles)........and when 6, 8, or 10 people tell him he is wrong and direct him to a wide variety of resources consistently relating an accurate recount of events his ultimate flame off is to say that "Leftists are scum. And they kill people in megadoses." I can't remember the last time I blasted somebody for taking a shot at Harry. He gets what he deserves. What does it say about somebody who blasts me for being critical of "Gunner"? |
"Julian D." wrote in message ... On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 03:11:28 GMT, "Jeff McCann" wrote: "Julian D." wrote in message .. . On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:52:12 -0700, jps wrote: In article , says... I despise malcontent protesters. Well then, you're probably not the best person to consider the consequences of such action, are you? jps I'm wise enough to avoid doing anything that would get my skull crushed by a police baton. It takes real guts to confront the cops in a peaceful protest. It wasn't so long ago that swinging batons, firehoses, tear gas, and attack dogs were the all too common approach to dissent. Very recently, we saw official intimidation and unlawful detentions used against protester in NYC. Standing up to be counted is a dangerous undertaking, even in our supposedly enlightened era. But sometimes it just has to be done, and that means somebody has to find the guts to do it. To do what? Show off to the American electorate what a bunch of anti-American, anti-capitalist, socialist nitwits you guys are? The protests accomplished NOTHING positive for your side. It helped Bush. I was thinking more of, for example, civil rights protesters in Alabama or the guy that stood up to that Chinese tank. I wasn't in NY, but I wasn't impressed by the various protests there, either. Of course, that doesn't excuse the intimidation tactics or the illegal detentions used against them. Jeff |
"Gunner" wrote in message ... On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 03:11:28 GMT, "Jeff McCann" wrote: "Julian D." wrote in message .. . On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:52:12 -0700, jps wrote: In article , says... I despise malcontent protesters. Well then, you're probably not the best person to consider the consequences of such action, are you? jps I'm wise enough to avoid doing anything that would get my skull crushed by a police baton. It takes real guts to confront the cops in a peaceful protest. It wasn't so long ago that swinging batons, firehoses, tear gas, and attack dogs were the all too common approach to dissent. Very recently, we saw official intimidation and unlawful detentions used against protester in NYC. Standing up to be counted is a dangerous undertaking, even in our supposedly enlightened era. But sometimes it just has to be done, and that means somebody has to find the guts to do it. Jeff Please provide cites of unlawful police activity in NYC during the Rep. Convention. No blogs please. Anti-war activist Rachael Perrotta was sitting on the front steps of a friend's house in Boston when four men approached her and told her they were from the FBI. They asked Perrotta for her name. An experienced political protester, Perrotta, 24, refused to answer. If they wanted to ask her questions, she said, they had to talk to her lawyer first. At this point, lawyers and legal experts say, the FBI agents should have turned around and left. But they didn't. "They just kept asking questions," Perrotta said. "It was a frightening experience." For 20 minutes, Perrotta said, the agents ignored her refusals to respond and continued to question her about possible violence during the presidential race and about other anti-war protesters in what government officials say was an attempt to prevent violence during election-year political events. The FBI acknowledges it has interviewed dozens of political activists across the country in recent weeks, having received intelligence "that individuals were planning to conduct violent criminal activity" at the Democratic convention in Boston last month, and the coming Republican National Convention in New York. But lawyers, human rights advocates and some U.S. lawmakers say the questioning has crossed the line into intimidation. "I believe that the FBI is genuinely concerned about uncovering terrorist activity and violence," said Donna Lieberman, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, but added that agents should honor protected dissent, the core of democracy. Attorney General John Ashcroft defended the FBI interviews at a news conference yesterday. Ashcroft said FBI agents interviewed only protesters they believed were plotting to firebomb media vehicles at the Democratic convention or might have known about such plots. Ashcroft said suggestions that the interviews were aimed at stifling protests were an "outrageous distortion." "We interviewed a very limited number of people that we believed were either participating in a plan to criminally and violently disrupt the Democratic National Convention, or individuals that might have known something about that plan," Ashcroft said. Joe Parris, an FBI spokesman in Washington, said officers from the bureau's Joint Terrorism Task Force are entitled to question activists about possible violence around high-profile election-year events. "The interviewees were free to talk to us or not. Nobody was taken into custody, locked up for interrogation. Nobody was given the third degree," he said. But some legal experts say it is inappropriate for law enforcement agents to continue questioning people who have invoked their right to counsel. "It is a form of badgering, and it is clearly designed to coerce or intimidate witnesses with the objective being that they should speak to them without counsel," said Jonathan Turley, a George Washington University law professor. This week, several Democratic lawmakers called for a Justice Department investigation into whether the questioning violated the protesters' First Amendment rights. In a letter to the Justice Department, Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, and two other panel members, Reps. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., and Robert Scott, D-Va., said the FBI appeared to be "engaged in systematic political harassment and intimidation of legitimate anti-war protesters." Gary Bald, assistant director of the FBI's counterterrorism division, said the bureau anticipates violent protests at the upcoming Republican National Convention in New York but does not have enough evidence to move against any group or person. Federal investigators have infiltrated some groups and are monitoring protest plans published on the Internet. New York officials have said they expect hundreds of thousands of people to stage demonstrations around the convention, which begins Aug. 30. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...312_fbi21.html ***** Three Democratic lawmakers on the House Judiciary Committee have criticized the FBI's interviews of protesters around the country. They asked the Justice Department's inspector general to investigate what they called "possible violations of First Amendment free speech and assembly rights." [snip] The committee's ranking Democrat, Michigan's John Conyers, along with Reps. Robert C. "Bobby" Scott of Virginia and Jerrold Nadler of New York, said in a letter that the FBI "appears to be engaged in systematic political harassment and intimidation of legitimate anti-war protesters." [snip] http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in636357.shtml ***** NEW YORK (AP) - Long-haired and bearded, Sebastian Licht said he set out Tuesday to celebrate his 22nd birthday, only to be mocked by a police officer as "Jesus" and swept up in one of the largest mass arrests in the nation's history. He emerged two days later from court - smelly, bleeding and determined to become the activist he says police feared he was. One of more than 1,700 people arrested this week at demonstrations aimed at the Republican National Convention, Licht gained his freedom on Thursday morning. A judge, frustrated at the city's pace in moving protesters through the criminal justice system, ordered the immediate release of nearly 500 of them. Most of those arrested were anti-GOP protesters, but some insist they got snared in the chaos. Licht puts himself in the latter category. Wearing a Polo Sport Ralph Lauren shirt and khaki shorts, Licht described his 6 p.m. arrest Tuesday in Herald Square, where he said he approached a subway station that he learned was closed only to be caught in a police sweep of the area. "Because I have long hair and a beard, they took me," he said. At one point after his arrest, he said, a police officer saw him laughing. "What's so funny, Jesus?" he recalled the officer asking. He said the officer then tightened the handcuffs and said, "It's not so funny now, is it, Jesus?" Blood seeped from a small cut on his wrist as he recalled the incident. Now free, he said he planned to look for a protest rally, inspired by his experience and the many political discussions he heard while waiting with protesters to appear in court and be released. He called it the "birth of my activism." Among more seasoned activists emerging from court was Mikel Stone, 29, of Denver, who described his time at a detention center on Pier 57 as a nightmare, part of the same two-day odyssey experienced by Licht. "My throat still hurts and my joints are achy," he said. He said a thick black oily residue on the floor of Pier 57 stained his pants during the two days he was locked up after he was caught in a police net arrest at Herald Square on Tuesday. A political science student and anti-war activist, Stone said he believed harsh detention conditions were part of an effort by the city to be "cruel and demoralizing." Still, he said he planned to protest Thursday night. Tim Kulik, 22, a photography student at the Rochester Institute of Technology who was transporting film for photographers at The Associated Press when he was arrested late Tuesday on his bicycle, was freed Thursday after 35 hours. He said he was scraped on his face and bruised on his leg and neck when a police officer tackled him before other officers completed the arrest. The officer who tackled him later tightened his handcuffs when he asked that they be loosened, he said. "As far as police, they're good, pretty objective and professional, but then I encountered plenty of disrespectful police who abuse their positions," he said. Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said officers acted with restraint. In a statement Thursday, he said there had been "exaggerated claims and outright falsehoods" about the conditions at the post-arrest screening site at Pier 57. He said most detainees are held there for 90 minutes, none was there longer than eight hours and all had immediate access to toilet facilities and drinking water. Civil rights lawyer Norman Siegel, who led Thursday's court fight to get the detainees freed, said the long detentions were illegal, especially since the time in overcrowded, dirty conditions was disproportionate to the alleged misdemeanor crimes, such as disorderly conduct. "People engaged in real crimes are getting out quicker than the protesters," he said. "It's an Alice in Wonderland approach." http://www.sacbee.com/24hour/nation/...-9303847c.html ***** NEW YORK (CNN) -- A judge in Manhattan held the city of New York in contempt Thursday, saying police did not abide by his order to release more than 500 people arrested in protests this week. The judge imposed a $1,000 fine for every person who was not released. State Supreme Court Judge John Cataldo had initially ordered that 560 people, rounded up in demonstrations surrounding the Republican National Convention, be released or made ready for arraignment by 5 p.m. Thursday. Later, Cataldo imposed sanctions after ruling that the city had failed to comply with his order. Cataldo rejected the city's argument that it was doing everything it could to expedite the releases. New York was overwhelmed when more than 1,100 protesters were arrested Tuesday and the judge "was wrong not to permit the city sufficient time to complete the processing of arrestees," attorney Michael Cardozo said. "The city believes these fines are not warranted on the facts of this case and will consider its legal options when they are assessed," he said. It was not immediately clear how many of the detainees remained in custody. Law enforcement sources said about 350 people were released Thursday. Clare Norrins, an attorney with the National Lawyers Guild, said hundreds of people were still in custody and are not scheduled to be arraigned. Many of the arrested had spent more than 38 hours in custody, despite a legal guideline recommending that anyone arrested for a minor violation during the convention be released or arraigned within 24 hours. One person had been in custody for 58 hours, said Colin Starger, a volunteer attorney with the lawyers association. Attorneys with the Legal Aid Society said most of 595 people detained at central booking in downtown Manhattan are being held for minor violations, while more serious offenders, including some arrested Wednesday for shoplifting, have already been released. "There is no good reason they had to wait this long," said Michele Maxian, an attorney with the Legal Aid Society. "The courts were ready and able to arraign protesters, but the courtrooms are empty." Lawyers have criticized the indiscriminate nature of the arrests. "They would just round up groups with these orange, plastic nets and arrest many innocent people in the process, including members of the press, people going to the movies, shoppers coming out of stores and businessmen going home from work," Maxian said. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg has stood by the police department. "You have to take fingerprints, you have to establish identities. Sometimes people don't want to tell you who they are and it just takes a while to go through the normal process. But given that we arrested four times the normal number on one day, I think that we have done a pretty good job," he said. Andre 3000, half of the hip-hop duo OutKast, who came to New York to make a documentary about voter registration, was awaiting the release of two crew members who were arrested Tuesday. "They were on the street and they were filming protesters. The police came over and they ... gave them a couple of directions to scoot to the side," Andre said. "And they did everything police said and actually the policeman said, 'No, this is not an arrest, you're not getting locked up,' and two or three minutes later, then they started to say, 'Get down on the ground.' And they put these plastic things on people's hands ... and they shipped them off." http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...tion.protests/ ***** Judge orders release of nearly 500 GOP protesters NEW YORK (AP) - A judge ordered the immediate release of nearly 500 protesters just hours before President Bush's speech at the Republican convention, then fined the city for refusing to comply with his order. Lauren Ross, center, is comforted by her friend Lisa Fithian, both from Austin, Texas, after their release from central booking in New York City, Thursday. By Bebeto Matthews, AP City officials later said they would release all of the protesters by late Thursday. (Video: Protests continue on final day) The legal battle came as the convention received a mostly mellow sendoff from demonstrators who had spent the early part of the week venting their rage at the Bush administration. Hundreds of protesters gathered - noisily but without incident - near Madison Square Garden as a huge wall of police stood between them and the site of the convention. As President Bush began his nomination acceptance speech inside at about 10 p.m., the crowds of protesters outside began to disperse. The week saw nearly 1,800 arrests in all, but only 26 on Thursday. (Related story: Detainees detail experiences) There were accusations that the city was deliberately holding the protesters longer so they would not be in the streets during Bush's speech. "The evidence shows that the city told defendants that they would not be released until George Bush went home," said Dan Alterman of the National Lawyers Guild. The New York Police Department denied the charge. "The allegations that the NYPD was purposely holding demonstrators until after the president of the United States left New York City was part of a deliberate misinformation campaign," police spokesman Paul Browne said. State Supreme Court Justice John Cataldo fined the city $1,000 for every protester held past a 5 p.m. deadline that he had set for their release. It was unclear how many detainees were still in custody, but Cataldo had ordered the release of 470 people. "These people have already been the victims of a process," Cataldo told the city's top lawyer. "I can no longer accept your statement that you are trying to comply." City Corporation Counsel Michael Cardozo tried in vain to convince the judge that the city was trying desperately to comply with his wishes. "We can't just open the jails of the city of New York and let everybody out," Cardozo said. "We're not trying to flout your honor's order. ... We're doing everything humanly possible." He later said the judge "was wrong not to permit the city sufficient time" to process all the detainees. Cardozo called the fines unwarranted and said the city would consider its legal options when the fines are assessed. About 50 of the detainees had launched a hunger strike Thursday to protest their extended time behind bars while awaiting arraignment. They were turning down the sandwiches and milk served three times a day until everyone was freed. On Thursday, New York commuters were greeted at Grand Central Station by about 100 demonstrators unfurling banners and releasing colorful balloons urging Bush to do more in the fight against AIDS. Thousands of protesters also milled around Union Square at a candlelight vigil organized by United for Peace and Justice. "I'm here as an advocate for peace," said John Morris, 44, sitting with a candle in his hands. "Our president missed an opportunity for peace, and we need a new leader." http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...ts-thurs_x.htm ***** Jeff |
Gunner wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:08:06 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: Dan wrote: "Gunner" wrote Of course no order to fire was given. And as Ive previously noted..if Im attacked by a mob, Im not going to wait for a fire order. Were they attacked by a mob, they would have been justified in firing. As to having no business on campus..when an area is under riot conditions, that is exactly what the Guard is for. There were no riot conditions, so the Guard should not have been ordered onto campus. Simple. But, of course, to Neocons, any peaceful protest is a "riot." I guess that comes from being ignorant cowards. Dan The national guard attack on the students in Ohio clearly shows what happens when idiots are allowed to have guns. No..the student attack on the national guard in in Ohio clearly shows what happens when idiots attack armed men. That's some intense spin. Shug. Checkmate Gunner "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke Liberalism comfortably displayed as a strawman. How convenient for you. Now you can write off an entire way of thinking. That should make things easier to process, yes? |
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