Hi,

I am a begginer with engines so bear with me, I have a (second
hand)Merc 200 (20 horse) Kiekhaefer (freshwater used only). I ran it
last year for 4 days with no problem, first trip this year it ran for
first day no problem, second day it didn't want to start, but would
eventually fire up and run in reverse only...any ideas. What we
done:- we made up 1 two stroke mix up with "stihl saw" and 1 with
castrol two stroke...we have done this before with no probs as the
"stihl saw" oil is W something reccomended we were told...still dont
understand how it will only run in reverse...we did have it going in
forward for aroung a half hour after we first got this problem but
then no go.

I have the manual and am going up to change plugs ect...but if anyone
has any pointers/reccomendations I would be most appreciative. BTW I
have searched the archives with no luck.

Regards

David

"lochawe" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

I am a begginer with engines so bear with me, I have a (second
hand)Merc 200 (20 horse) Kiekhaefer (freshwater used only). I ran it
last year for 4 days with no problem, first trip this year it ran for
first day no problem, second day it didn't want to start, but would
eventually fire up and run in reverse only...any ideas. What we
done:- we made up 1 two stroke mix up with "stihl saw" and 1 with
castrol two stroke...we have done this before with no probs as the
"stihl saw" oil is W something reccomended we were told...still dont
understand how it will only run in reverse...we did have it going in
forward for aroung a half hour after we first got this problem but
then no go.

Fuel mixtures/ratios aside, your problem would seem to be between the gear
box and the shifting mechanism in the motor head. Could be as simple as a
loose bolt. Your shifter cable may have become uncrimped. Something might
have worked its way onto the track, blocking the slider which engages the
proper gear. Lastly, it could be as simple as adjusting the slider, so it
engages most easily, instead of just barely, which may have been the case
before it quit working.

If whatever is wrong turns out to be more serious than these possibilities,
you have my sympathy.

Unc

Make sure there isn't something wrapped around the prop.
With the shifter in neutral can you turn the prop both forward and reverse?

"lochawe" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

I am a begginer with engines so bear with me, I have a (second
hand)Merc 200 (20 horse) Kiekhaefer (freshwater used only). I ran it
last year for 4 days with no problem, first trip this year it ran for
first day no problem, second day it didn't want to start, but would
eventually fire up and run in reverse only...any ideas. What we
done:- we made up 1 two stroke mix up with "stihl saw" and 1 with
castrol two stroke...we have done this before with no probs as the
"stihl saw" oil is W something reccomended we were told...still dont
understand how it will only run in reverse...we did have it going in
forward for aroung a half hour after we first got this problem but
then no go.

I have the manual and am going up to change plugs ect...but if anyone
has any pointers/reccomendations I would be most appreciative. BTW I
have searched the archives with no luck.

Regards

David

You should be using oil meant for a water-cooled outboard motor, not
for an air-cooled chainsaw. There is a difference in the combustion
temperature. The proper mix is 50:1.

I'm assuming you have the Merc 200 (20 hp) with the separate gearshift
lever, not the one with the shift built into the tiller twist grip.
Even so, the gearshift is tied into both the tilt lock mechanism and
the throttle mechanism. You can't shift out of reverse if the throttle
is at too high a speed or the tilt lock is jammed. First I'm assuming
you're shift lever is jammed. Turn the throttle all the way down and
jiggle the motor up and down on the transom a bit as if you're trying
to tilt it and let it down, while trying to move the shift into
neutral. This may unstick the mechanisms. It is safe to shift into
neutral while the engine is not running.

Alternatively, if the shift lever is not stuck, then the shifter gears
in the lower engine cowl and/or the splines in shift shaft coupler
have stripped, or the F-N-R spring in the lower unit is busted or the
dog is stuck. If you can tilt the motor in forward but not neutral,
then it's the latter 2 possibilities. If you left water in it (in the
gearcase) over the winter the clutch dog may have rusted to the
propshaft. Make sure you have fresh lube in the lower unit and if that
doesn't free it up after a short while then you're looking at a
teardown of the lower unit to fix it.

%mod%

(lochawe) wrote in message . com...
Hi,

I am a begginer with engines so bear with me, I have a (second
hand)Merc 200 (20 horse) Kiekhaefer (freshwater used only). I ran it
last year for 4 days with no problem, first trip this year it ran for
first day no problem, second day it didn't want to start, but would
eventually fire up and run in reverse only...any ideas. What we
done:- we made up 1 two stroke mix up with "stihl saw" and 1 with
castrol two stroke...we have done this before with no probs as the
"stihl saw" oil is W something reccomended we were told...still dont
understand how it will only run in reverse...we did have it going in
forward for aroung a half hour after we first got this problem but
then no go.

I have the manual and am going up to change plugs ect...but if anyone
has any pointers/reccomendations I would be most appreciative. BTW I
have searched the archives with no luck.

Regards

David

(modervador) wrote in message . com...
You should be using oil meant for a water-cooled outboard motor, not
for an air-cooled chainsaw. There is a difference in the combustion
temperature. The proper mix is 50:1.

I'm assuming you have the Merc 200 (20 hp) with the separate gearshift
lever, not the one with the shift built into the tiller twist grip.
Even so, the gearshift is tied into both the tilt lock mechanism and
the throttle mechanism. You can't shift out of reverse if the throttle
is at too high a speed or the tilt lock is jammed. First I'm assuming
you're shift lever is jammed. Turn the throttle all the way down and
jiggle the motor up and down on the transom a bit as if you're trying
to tilt it and let it down, while trying to move the shift into
neutral. This may unstick the mechanisms. It is safe to shift into
neutral while the engine is not running.

Alternatively, if the shift lever is not stuck, then the shifter gears
in the lower engine cowl and/or the splines in shift shaft coupler
have stripped, or the F-N-R spring in the lower unit is busted or the
dog is stuck. If you can tilt the motor in forward but not neutral,
then it's the latter 2 possibilities. If you left water in it (in the
gearcase) over the winter the clutch dog may have rusted to the
propshaft. Make sure you have fresh lube in the lower unit and if that
doesn't free it up after a short while then you're looking at a
teardown of the lower unit to fix it.

%mod%

Thanks everyone (especially mod), I will try all your suggestions at
the week-end. 'mod'your assertion on the stihl saw air coooled mix
makes excellent sense, although we have used it before it was usually
mixed into our 5 gallon tank which also had some left-over castrol
mix, this time we mixed a gallon (stihl)mix straight into the empty 5
gallon tank (hope this is the problem). Will use virgin fuel next time
with the real mcoy, guess it is a BIG false econemy using anything
else. We also had obtained 2 litres of moped oil on the cheap we were
going to use(not now)unless it is an amphibious moped lol, thanks
again. Your assumptions about the gearshift lever are also highly
accurate (in the second of your paragraphs) the shift lever is not
stuck, how difficult is it to replace/locate/diagnose an f-n-r spring,
what is a 'dog'?, there was fresh gear oil put into it last year by my
friends dad, is that the same as "fresh lube in the lower unit" if so
should we do it again anyway?. I do remember when we finished our trip
that we had to tilt the motor in forward, but that was the same last
trip, not %100 sure if we tried it in neutral, it ran a full day this
year before problems so I dont think it is rusted solid, hope it is
just stuck. thanks again for your experience/insight and time....hope
these posts may help some other beginners too.

Regards

David

(modervador) wrote in message . com...
You should be using oil meant for a water-cooled outboard motor, not
for an air-cooled chainsaw. There is a difference in the combustion
temperature. The proper mix is 50:1.

100%

I also think that marine oil is made to turn into little droplets and
sink rather than form a film on the surface like non marine oils will
do.

Aside from the environmental aspects I cant imagine there is any
advantage to running non marine oils in a marine 2 stroke.

Matt

(lochawe) wrote in message . com...

Thanks everyone (especially mod), I will try all your suggestions at
the week-end.

You're welcome.

Your assumptions about the gearshift lever are also highly
accurate (in the second of your paragraphs) the shift lever is not
stuck, how difficult is it to replace/locate/diagnose an f-n-r spring,
what is a 'dog'?,

The "dog" is the "clutch dog" which is a thingy that slides on the
propshaft and engages the forward or reverse driven gear to make the
propshaft spin in either the forward or reverse rotation. It is
actuated by a pin that goes from the dog to the shift cam, the pin
sliding fore and aft through a tunnel in the front part of the
propshaft in response to the shift cam that rotates on the shift
shaft. The spring pushes the dog away from the reverse gear towards
the the forward gear, passing through the neutral position, and the
pin pushes against the dog from the opposite direction. This
spring-loaded design makes it safe to shift from reverse or forward
into neutral or from neutral into forward with the engine not running,
but shifting from neutral into reverse requires that the engine be
running or the prop be spinning to allow the dog "ears" to slip into
the indentations in the face of the reverse gear.

To access any of these items you must remove the bearing carrier at
the rear of the gearcase, just in front of the prop. Follow the
procedure in the repair manual or pay somebody else who has the proper
manuals and tools, this is easy to screw up (I think some items are
reverse-threaded and special tools are required).

there was fresh gear oil put into it last year by my
friends dad, is that the same as "fresh lube in the lower unit" if so
should we do it again anyway?.

You didn't say the fresh oil went in immediately prior to storage last
year, so I'll assume otherwise to allow a teaching moment. Water in
the gearcase is Bad. You must religiously drain and refill with fresh
gear oil at the end of the boating season, because you don't want to
leave water in it over the winter. You can't be sure that there's no
water in the gears if you don't drain the oil, so just because the oil
was fresh a few days ago isn't good enough if the motor has been in
the water for any length of time since; a seal may have failed
meantime.

Before you put the motor in the water in the spring, you should check
the oil and add as necessary. This tells you if you have a slow leak
that you may have missed in the previous autumn in which case you
should track it down. It also idiotproofs in case whoever winterized
the motor forgot to refill the gearcase (it happens), or forgot to put
the gasket on one/both of the oil drain/vent screws (it also happens).

Follow the procedure for draining and filling described in the manual.
Overfilling can cause problems as well as underfilling.

I do remember when we finished our trip
that we had to tilt the motor in forward, but that was the same last
trip, not %100 sure if we tried it in neutral, it ran a full day this
year before problems so I dont think it is rusted solid, hope it is
just stuck. thanks again for your experience/insight and time....hope
these posts may help some other beginners too.

Here's a diagnostic/possible repair. First make sure there's adequate
fresh lube in the gearcase. Shift into forward and tilt the motor so
the propshaft is near vertical and the prop is facing up (ie. the
front or the gearcase is facing down). Pull up on the prop to take up
the shaft endplay and tap downward on the propshaft with a stick of
wood; this should be jarring the propshaft up and down... but don't
jar it too hard, you're just trying to shake the dog off its position
on the propshaft, not break bearings. Between bouts of tapping, rotate
the prop clockwise and listen for a ratcheting or clicking sound; if
you hear it you may be good to go. Try also rotating the prop
counterclockwise and you should feel it catch, but clockwise should be
easy rotation.

Now lower the motor to operating position in the water, turn the
throttle all the way to the slowest setting and leaving the gearshift
in forward slowly pull the starter cord*, watching the prop rotation.
The prop should be turning clockwise (as viewed from the rear). Shift
into neutral and repeat pulling. The prop should not be spinning, or
might turn slightly counterclockwise. Shift back into forward again
and repeat the cord pulling*... the prop should be turning clockwise
again. Now shift into neutral and start the motor. If you can reliably
shift from neutral to forward and back then your clutch dog spring is
perhaps OK. If it sticks in neutral then the spring is broken/stuck,
or the dog is sticking on the propshaft, or the cam follower pin is
sticking in the propshaft. Now try reverse and neutral. If it sticks
in reverse but didn't stick in neutral previously, then there's
probably just a sticky spot in the sliding components which may work
out over time if you avoid reverse for a day or two. Repeat the
unsticking procedure and verify that you have reliable forward and
neutral and go fishing.

(* Although I doubt it, your motor may have an interlock that prevents
pulling the starter rope if the gearshift is not in neutral; if so,
omit these particular steps.)

Please let us know the results.

%mod%