Paddling is a whole lot of fun, if you can stay in control (yeah, I know, you
paid someone to take care of that). Just thought I'd recommed that you try it
again on easier water, and maybe move up to bigger water later if that suits
you. Good luck.

Dennis

sounds like pretty normal to me - swimming from a raft isn't all that
much fun - i've had my share of swims in the last year (not when I was
captaining the raft - I won't say guiding as I'm not an official guide).

I know both my husband (who is yikes an official wva guide and I) stand
occasionally in the raft - It gives you a better line of vision when
approaching a rapid.

The Gauley doesn't "run" or "release" all the time - there is a "Gauley
Season" with occasional releases or runs after rainfall other times of
years - I could see how a guide who was coming down for the fall season
might not have run it since last year.

Taking trainees along is common practice - I couldn't tell from your
description if you were talking about a trainee or a girlfriend...

btw - I'm 46 and my husband is 50 - and lots of boaters are alot older -
but it may be that another sport is more comfortable for you.

sheila

I'm learning, apparently, that what I experienced was "pretty normal".

I guess it would be normal to real whitewater rafters - but that, I am
not.
It scared me to totally near death.

I am not one of those who will return for more heightened thrills, or even
a
repeat of the ones that I experienced on the Lower Gauley.

But it WAS an experience that I will NEVER forget!

Thanks for your comments!


Personally, I think you should confront your fears, to use a little
psychobabble :-) Do it again! I bet you'll have a blast. In fact, you
might even be tempted to try the UPPER Gauley :-) You'll see- whitewater is
addictive!!!

In message , Mike
McCrea writes
I stand corrected Jimbob; everyone knows a raft guide would never
exaggerate and I'm sure Celia's trip really "started out with a Class
V, and ended with a Class V. They were all pretty much evenly spaced
out."

It would appear that Celia's trip was class VI but only as she perceived
it

--
Dave Manby
Details of the Coruh river and my book "Many Rivers To Run" at
http://www.dmanby.demon.co.uk

In message , chapelle
writes
sounds like pretty normal to me - swimming from a raft isn't all that
much fun - i've had my share of swims in the last year (not when I was
captaining the raft - I won't say guiding as I'm not an official guide).
Snipped

Old Donald RIP used to say often after another particularly horrendous
swim that I had watched "Gosh that was exciting ! sometimes I think that
swimming the rapids is more exciting than paddling them you should try
it Dave!"

I declined as often as I could!
--
Dave Manby
Details of the Coruh river and my book "Many Rivers To Run" at
http://www.dmanby.demon.co.uk

About the class V's - understand that raft guides and companies
typically inflate the actual difficulty of a rapid by one class. If
your guide tells you it's a class V it's probably really a IV, and a
IV really a III.

They are selling an experience, an adventure, and having their
customers memories imprinted with the "Class V" rapid they ran is just
business as usual. Deceptive, but still not unusual.


That's a load of crap! How many rafts have you guided?

Totally normal on the Arkansas. Royal Gorge...Class V...bull (except
high water, and then it's shut down to commercial rafting).

Celia Oblinger wrote:

snip description of rafting trip

Does anyone have any comments about this scenario at all????

Your experience sounds very similar to my first [and decidedly *last*]
rafting trip in West Virginia.

A marginal guide with absolutely no regard for the safety of his crew,
the most cursory safety training, and no forewarning that half of the
rafts dump at the very first rapid. (I was informed about this last
piece of info *after* the trip, not before.)

I have no problem with experinenced boaters with the proper training and
experience shooting class V water. But rafts full of clueless tourists
don't belong there. (and neither do I)

The problem with the commercial rafting operations is that they treat
the tourists like so many sacks of potatoes. If the sacks bounce out of
the rafts, the guide rounds them up and hopes he can find them all and
that they're not too damaged. And if the sack gets hurt, well it's the
sack's fault not the guide's. What's amazing is that they don't kill
more people than they do.

Anyway, you can read my account of the trip (three years ago! wow.) at
http://www.google.com/groups?UTF-8&c2coff=1&selm=3B253A71.59F936A9%40mailandnews.co m

--
//-Walt
//
//

J. A. M. wrote:
Wilko wrote:

J. A. M. wrote:

The Lower Gauley is class 4. Unless you've been stuffed under one of the rocks or run over by a raft. Then it's class 6!

The international difficulty rating has nothing to do with consequences,
but all with how difficult it is to stay on your line, because of the
width of the line, the manouvering required because of holes, waves,
rocks, drops, speed of current etc..

Getting stuffed under a rock says nothing about how difficult it is to
run the lines. Calling consequences a certain class makes no sense.
Strainers can kill, does that make running over a fallen tree on an
almost fla****er river it suddenly class VI?

As for your class IV rating for the entire lower Gauley, I think only a
few of the rapids on the lower Gauley deserve that rating. But where
does that leave the rafting guides' claims of it being class V?

Heavens Gate is not that hard to run. It's easier than Upper Mash or Pure Screaming Hell. The left gate is under cut but you have to get close to it for maximum effect. A large rock, just down stream on the left is also a danger. The face of it is flat, some say concave, and it splits the current. I've seen swimmers held against it for several seconds before washing out.

Just FYI: I've run the Gauley a couple of times, the upper more than the
lower, but still, often enough to know what I'm talking about.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

Wilko

typed in Message-ID:

As for your class IV rating for the entire lower Gauley, I think only a
few of the rapids on the lower Gauley deserve that rating. But where
does that leave the rafting guides' claims of it being class V?

I agree with Wilko on this one, and I've paddled it more than a couple of times
and in several different type craft. The AW standard rating system gives only
two class IV rapids on the Lower Gauley, Mash and PSH (at fall release levels).
I personally would add Koontz's Flume, although there is an easy line down
river left. So that would make it a Class III/IV run or a Class III(IV),
designating that most of the river is Class III with a couple of class IV's.
SYOTR
Larry C.

Walt

Typed in Message-ID:

I have no problem with experinenced boaters with the proper training and
experience shooting class V water. But rafts full of clueless tourists
don't belong there. (and neither do I)

However, the Lower Gauley is a Class III/IV
river at best, most of the river being Class III. It's pool and drop, and
although there are undercuts and other dangers, is relatively easy on swimmers.
The problem with the commercial rafting operations is that they treat
the tourists like so many sacks of potatoes. If the sacks bounce out of
the rafts, the guide rounds them up and hopes he can find them all and
that they're not too damaged. And

if the sack gets hurt, well it's the
sack's fault not the guide's. What's amazing is that they don't kill
more people than they do.

How about the problem being that the average raft customer treats the river as
an amusement park ride and doesn't pay any attention to safety or instructions.

I don't want to totally defend the rafting industry, which has it's share of
problems, but a guide isn't any better than the crew he gets stuck with that
day. Arnold Swartznegger couldn't handle a 16' raft full of tourist that are
all air bracing and not getting a paddle in the water. Yet many passengers seem
to expect that from the guides.

We used to eat lunch at Dimple on the Lower Yough. I would predict which rafts
were going to have trouble with pretty amazing accuracy. After awhile, my
companions asked how I did it. It was pretty simple, you just watched how
effective a stroke the paddlers were taking.
If they were not paddling or using just the tip, banging each others paddles,
etc, it was a good bet that they would bang the Rock at Dimple, not know how to
high side and either flip or dump most of the people out of the raft.

In the immortal words of a young female guide on the Upper Ocoee as she
attempted to ferry to river left above Humongous when all of her "guest" just
stopped paddling, PADDLE!PADDLE!!PADDLE!!!
SYOTR
Larry C.