The number one thing that I want to stress here is that - my friend and I had no business WHATSOEVER rafting on any part of the Gauley River.

I had rafted on the Ocoee ONCE before, with no mishaps, and no swimming - but I am NOT a rafter.

My friend had NO whitewater rafting experience.

And, like the rafting company ad said, this trip was even OK for novices........

And just FYI, I am a 52 year-old woman who regularly runs long distance competitive events. My friend is a 34 year-old woman who primarily leads an "inactive" life - but she is very strong - and has more strength to paddle than I do.

However, I want to detail to you how we both almost lost our lives on the Lower Gauley this past Friday, August 6.

Even though we had no business on this river in the first place, we both now question whether and how our near death experiences could have been prevented.

But most of all, if we could prevent anyone else from experiencing what we would - that is our goal.

For the sake of anonymity, I will call the rafting compnay ABC Rafting, and I will refer to two of the guides as Brad and Chuck.

Could this have been prevented?????

We arrived at ABC Rafting company well ahead of schedule. We registered, and soon Brad came over, told us he would be our guide, and he told us that we would soon be shown a safety video. The place were packed, and we were both excited our rafting trip!

Well, the place soon cleared out, and there was only my friend and I left. Apparently, all of the other people had been signed up for one of the New River trip.

Brad came back over and told us that we were waiting on a group of seven people who had mistakenly gone out with another group. They would soon be returning, and then we would be on our way.

Finally, the group of seven returned. We were all led out to get our life jackets, paddle, and helmets. I asked Brad about the safety video, but he said that he would explain everything to us on the bus.

Brad then told us that my friend and I would be in a boat with just our guide, Chuck. There would be only three of us.

Shortly after that, Chuck came over and said that Charlene would be going with us. I guess that Charlene would act sort of as an assistant.

So there was four of us that would be doing the Lower Gauley. I just casually remembered that when I had done the Ocoee, that it was a larger boat, and that there had been, I believe, a total of nine of us, including the guide. However, the only research that I had done prior to signing my friend and I up for this trip was - research on the rafting companies available. I should have done more research on whitewater rafting in general, and on the Gauley River in particular. This was my GRAVE mistake.

At any rate, we were off on our adventure!

And, Brad DID go over all of the preliminaries on the bus ride over. My friend and I both asked him to repeat some things over, and he did. We listened, asked questions, and had it all down......

Our "mishap" happened on Heaven Help Me/Us, right before Heaven's Gate.

Up to this point, we had finally begun to paddle "together" (We were both sitting in front, as per the Chuck's instructions, and Charlene was sitting in the middle location, in front of Chuck - and we made it just fine across what were terrifying Class III, IV, and close to Class V waves. We were getting the hang of it. But, yet, NEITHER of us wanted to "go swimming". THAT thought terrified us both. We both realized, before we ever got to Heaven Help Me/Us - Heaven's Gate - that we were in over our heads.

And the next several items are what now concern us both the most:

1.)

Several comments had been made that - Chuck, our guide, had just gotten out from spending a year in prison. One of these comments was made before the bus even left for the take out, and another while we were stopped for lunch. Jokes??? I don't know. Brad did warn us that our guides would be making jokes all day, and that we should learn how to differentiate jokes from the truth.

2.)

Both Chuck, our guide, and Charlene, his assistant - REPEATEDLY told us that they had no recent experience on the Gauley - that neither of them had even been on it in over a year. They BOTH kept repeating it - and acted like it was a "badge of honor". Chuck reassured us, however, that he knew how to "read" the water......

3.)

I looked back several times, right before a huge set of waves - and Chuck, our guide, was STANDING UP, yelling "Yoo hoo!" Please tell me - is STANDING UP OK? Is this customarily done by guides?? If so, then I won't feel so bad - but, quite frankly, it scared me absolutely to death.

4.)

Chuck spent so much time talking and conversing with Charlene - that my friend and I had terrific problems determining what were paddling commands - and what were conversations with Charlene. THIS was not acceptable. We both listened very carefully to everything he said - and attempted to follow precisely what he said to do. But, it was hard.......

None of would have mattered, probably, in the end, if both my friend and I had not come so close to death between Heaven Help Me/Us - Heaven's Gate.....

Just FYI, I have researched it - and I believe that Chuck's skills in navigating those particular waves was CORRECT. He did navigate left of center.

But as soon as we got left of center, both my friend and I were thrown completely out of the raft, into the air.

I can't speak for her, but she did go UNDER a rock - and was rescued by another ABC Rafting boat rafting with us, guided by Brad. There are parts that she doesn't remember - just like me.

But what happened to me, in the order that I remember them, is this:

1.) Being way in front of the boat, with our guide, Chuck, reaching out the T-grip end of the paddle to me. But I was being swept, rapidly, down stream. Trying to catch the T-Grip, but being too far away - and being swept away. I just knew that this was it. I was a complete goner.

2.) Then, a period that I don't remember - until I slammed into a rock. I, just for a second, remember Chuck in the boat, pointing for me to go away from the rock, to the left. (The rock was, going downstream, feet first, face up, on the left.)

3.) Then, a period that I don't remember. Just going under, trying to get back up.

4.) Finally, Chuck trying to grab me up by my life jacket into the boat - but I couldn't breath - as the life jacket had slid up - and was blocking all air.

Finally, I, by whatever miracle, was placed back into the boat. I asked about my friend, and she had been rescused by Brad into his boat.

I don't care what sort of errors, or misconduct, that I had thought that Chuck had done up to this point - HE SAVED MY LIFE. And he saved the life of someone who should never have been on that river to begin with. This man saved my life - absolutely - and I will forever be grateful to him.

Needless to say, both my friend and I were terrified for the remainder of the trip.

One thing that I do want to mention: My friend and I had asked Chuck, after lunch, but before Heaven Help Me/Us - Heaven's Gate, if anyone had ever died rafting on the Lower Gauley. Granted, this was an extremelly stupid question. It was stupid because I should have done the research before I ever signed my friend and I up for the trip. But, Chuck shouldn't have lied either. He told us that, NO, no one had ever died rafting on the Lower Gauley.......

We remained completely terrified - and I even asked Chuck about the possibilities of getting a helicopter in there and getting out. Neither my friend or I wanted to continue the trip.

But Chuck told us that this was not possible - that the only way to the end - was by means of the raft.

OK. My friend and I had made a huge mistake by signing up for this trip. But I don't want other people to be allowed to make the same mistkae and live through the terror that we lived through.

We both just constantly prayed all the way from Heaven Help Me/Us - Heaven's Gate - to the final last 3-1/2 miles of flat water.

Neither of us have ever been through so much terror - and we would never want anyone else to experience this either, unnecessarily.

Even though we shouldn't have been on that trip, do you think that the guide was OK??? Even after we were both back in the boat, and in definite trauma - he JUST KEPT TALKING about how this was his and Charlene's first time on this river in over a year!!! He did absolutely nothing to make us feel any better. It was almost as if he was trying to "push the envelope" as hard as he could.

Does anyone have any comments about this scenario at all????

Many thanks in advance.

Oh, and one other thing: Chuck told my friend and I that ALL FOUR OF US were thrown from the boat.

If that was the case, then you must know how long my friend were in danger - because the first time that I again saw Chuck - he was in the boat, holding the T-Grip out to me......

How did HE get back in the boat???

"Celia Oblinger" wrote in message ...
The number one thing that I want to stress here is that - my friend and I had no business WHATSOEVER rafting on any part of the Gauley River.

I had rafted on the Ocoee ONCE before, with no mishaps, and no swimming - but I am NOT a rafter.

My friend had NO whitewater rafting experience.

And, like the rafting company ad said, this trip was even OK for novices........

And just FYI, I am a 52 year-old woman who regularly runs long distance competitive events. My friend is a 34 year-old woman who primarily leads an "inactive" life - but she is very strong - and has more strength to paddle than I do.

However, I want to detail to you how we both almost lost our lives on the Lower Gauley this past Friday, August 6.

Even though we had no business on this river in the first place, we both now question whether and how our near death experiences could have been prevented.

But most of all, if we could prevent anyone else from experiencing what we would - that is our goal.

For the sake of anonymity, I will call the rafting compnay ABC Rafting, and I will refer to two of the guides as Brad and Chuck.

Could this have been prevented?????

We arrived at ABC Rafting company well ahead of schedule. We registered, and soon Brad came over, told us he would be our guide, and he told us that we would soon be shown a safety video. The place were packed, and we were both excited our rafting trip!

Well, the place soon cleared out, and there was only my friend and I left. Apparently, all of the other people had been signed up for one of the New River trip.

Brad came back over and told us that we were waiting on a group of seven people who had mistakenly gone out with another group. They would soon be returning, and then we would be on our way.

Finally, the group of seven returned. We were all led out to get our life jackets, paddle, and helmets. I asked Brad about the safety video, but he said that he would explain everything to us on the bus.

Brad then told us that my friend and I would be in a boat with just our guide, Chuck. There would be only three of us.

Shortly after that, Chuck came over and said that Charlene would be going with us. I guess that Charlene would act sort of as an assistant.

So there was four of us that would be doing the Lower Gauley. I just casually remembered that when I had done the Ocoee, that it was a larger boat, and that there had been, I believe, a total of nine of us, including the guide. However, the only research that I had done prior to signing my friend and I up for this trip was - research on the rafting companies available. I should have done more research on whitewater rafting in general, and on the Gauley River in particular. This was my GRAVE mistake.

At any rate, we were off on our adventure!

And, Brad DID go over all of the preliminaries on the bus ride over. My friend and I both asked him to repeat some things over, and he did. We listened, asked questions, and had it all down......

Our "mishap" happened on Heaven Help Me/Us, right before Heaven's Gate.

Up to this point, we had finally begun to paddle "together" (We were both sitting in front, as per the Chuck's instructions, and Charlene was sitting in the middle location, in front of Chuck - and we made it just fine across what were terrifying Class III, IV, and close to Class V waves. We were getting the hang of it. But, yet, NEITHER of us wanted to "go swimming". THAT thought terrified us both. We both realized, before we ever got to Heaven Help Me/Us - Heaven's Gate - that we were in over our heads.

And the next several items are what now concern us both the most:

1.)

Several comments had been made that - Chuck, our guide, had just gotten out from spending a year in prison. One of these comments was made before the bus even left for the take out, and another while we were stopped for lunch. Jokes??? I don't know. Brad did warn us that our guides would be making jokes all day, and that we should learn how to differentiate jokes from the truth.

2.)

Both Chuck, our guide, and Charlene, his assistant - REPEATEDLY told us that they had no recent experience on the Gauley - that neither of them had even been on it in over a year. They BOTH kept repeating it - and acted like it was a "badge of honor". Chuck reassured us, however, that he knew how to "read" the water......

3.)

I looked back several times, right before a huge set of waves - and Chuck, our guide, was STANDING UP, yelling "Yoo hoo!" Please tell me - is STANDING UP OK? Is this customarily done by guides?? If so, then I won't feel so bad - but, quite frankly, it scared me absolutely to death.

4.)

Chuck spent so much time talking and conversing with Charlene - that my friend and I had terrific problems determining what were paddling commands - and what were conversations with Charlene. THIS was not acceptable. We both listened very carefully to everything he said - and attempted to follow precisely what he said to do. But, it was hard.......

None of would have mattered, probably, in the end, if both my friend and I had not come so close to death between Heaven Help Me/Us - Heaven's Gate.....

Just FYI, I have researched it - and I believe that Chuck's skills in navigating those particular waves was CORRECT. He did navigate left of center.

But as soon as we got left of center, both my friend and I were thrown completely out of the raft, into the air.

I can't speak for her, but she did go UNDER a rock - and was rescued by another ABC Rafting boat rafting with us, guided by Brad. There are parts that she doesn't remember - just like me.

But what happened to me, in the order that I remember them, is this:

1.) Being way in front of the boat, with our guide, Chuck, reaching out the T-grip end of the paddle to me. But I was being swept, rapidly, down stream. Trying to catch the T-Grip, but being too far away - and being swept away. I just knew that this was it. I was a complete goner.

2.) Then, a period that I don't remember - until I slammed into a rock. I, just for a second, remember Chuck in the boat, pointing for me to go away from the rock, to the left. (The rock was, going downstream, feet first, face up, on the left.)

3.) Then, a period that I don't remember. Just going under, trying to get back up.

4.) Finally, Chuck trying to grab me up by my life jacket into the boat - but I couldn't breath - as the life jacket had slid up - and was blocking all air.

Finally, I, by whatever miracle, was placed back into the boat. I asked about my friend, and she had been rescused by Brad into his boat.

I don't care what sort of errors, or misconduct, that I had thought that Chuck had done up to this point - HE SAVED MY LIFE. And he saved the life of someone who should never have been on that river to begin with. This man saved my life - absolutely - and I will forever be grateful to him.

Needless to say, both my friend and I were terrified for the remainder of the trip.

One thing that I do want to mention: My friend and I had asked Chuck, after lunch, but before Heaven Help Me/Us - Heaven's Gate, if anyone had ever died rafting on the Lower Gauley. Granted, this was an extremelly stupid question. It was stupid because I should have done the research before I ever signed my friend and I up for the trip. But, Chuck shouldn't have lied either. He told us that, NO, no one had ever died rafting on the Lower Gauley.......

We remained completely terrified - and I even asked Chuck about the possibilities of getting a helicopter in there and getting out. Neither my friend or I wanted to continue the trip.

But Chuck told us that this was not possible - that the only way to the end - was by means of the raft.

OK. My friend and I had made a huge mistake by signing up for this trip. But I don't want other people to be allowed to make the same mistkae and live through the terror that we lived through.

We both just constantly prayed all the way from Heaven Help Me/Us - Heaven's Gate - to the final last 3-1/2 miles of flat water.

Neither of us have ever been through so much terror - and we would never want anyone else to experience this either, unnecessarily.

Even though we shouldn't have been on that trip, do you think that the guide was OK??? Even after we were both back in the boat, and in definite trauma - he JUST KEPT TALKING about how this was his and Charlene's first time on this river in over a year!!! He did absolutely nothing to make us feel any better. It was almost as if he was trying to "push the envelope" as hard as he could.

Does anyone have any comments about this scenario at all????

Many thanks in advance.

Ahhh, the thrill of being ejected from a raft on the Lower Gauley! Same
thing happened to me, once upon a time. Sounds like a pretty typical
rafting trip to me ;-)

sounds about right ,our guide cleared the boat,because none of our group had
swam in two days of paddling.

That's why I paddle whitewater, in a canoe.
I wish I were 52...... again.

Your raft guides didn't sound like they were as professional as they guides
that I rafted the Upper Gauley with on two occasions, but it sounds like a
typical bad swim to me that all rafters should consider. It ain't no Carowinds
ride. Its a choice. Sorry your trip turned out so badly. Go with a
recommended raft company thats known for service. There are a bunch of them.
Research a little bit more next time maybe?

OK,

1) It sounds like a pretty normal swim in whitewater except that

2) Your PFD wasn't fitted correctly. IT SHOULD NOT RIDE UP
SIGNIFICANTLY. The guides should have checked before launch that your
PFD was on and adjusted correctly.

He may have been correct in that no RAFTERS have died on the lower
Gauley. However, BOATERS have died on the lower Gauley. A couple of
years ago ('99), a kayaker flipped right at the put-in and got washed
into the boulder sieve at Koontz's Flume and, despite heroic efforts
of bystanders, died.

There was also a squirt boater who got pinned and died at Stairstep in
'86

(actually, I'm surprised that the AW Accident database only has 3
events for the lower Gauley... better than I expected. Of course, it
isn't that difficult a river and WV mandates a guide in every boat.)

There are a lot of undercut rocks on the Gauley - upper and lower.

Unless the river was in flood, there was no Class V anything on the
river. If it was in flood, you had no business being there, any of
you. This river is Class IV best case.

It is possible that the boat got cleaned of people intentionally. It
happens on some rivers. I would hope that it would never happen on
the Gauley... just too many undercut rocks to do this with any kind of
safety.

Ted

Celia Oblinger wrote:

Oh, and one other thing: Chuck told my friend and I that ALL FOUR
OF US were thrown from the boat.

If that was the case, then you must know how long my friend were
in danger - because the first time that I again saw Chuck - he was
in the boat, holding the T-Grip out to me......

How did HE get back in the boat???

Experienced rafters, a group in which most guides are included,
can climb back into a raft by grabbing onto the side handles or
rope-line, kicking the feet for acceleration, and doing a pull-up.
When a raft flips upside-down, the situation is similar but worse.

Before I answer all your questions, if someone else doesn't
answer them to your satisfaction, let me ask you for more details.

During the ABC Company's safety talk, did they mention what to do
if you fell out of the raft? Did they give you pointers in how to
stay in the raft by putting weight on your feet, as if you're skiing,
or holding onto some handle?

I wouldn't call this a "near death" unless you were given CPR.
It sounds like just a bad swim for you, and a terribly bad swim
for your friend, who went under a rock.

Jokes are supposed to be funny. Are prison jokes considered funnier
in WV than elsewhere?

Commercial passengers who "swim" or experience "carnage" are almost
twice as likely to return, various studies indicate. Many companies
give guests a "thrill" by maneuvering them into the biggest waves.
However guides should be sensitive to what their guests want, and
it can't hurt to ask.

Many mishaps occur right after lunch. Usually I wait to eat until
the big rapids are behind me. Did you consider refusing to continue
in that same boat configuration after lunch?

It's always best when guides know the river well, especially on rivers
with many hazards (e.g. undercut rocks). I don't know the Gauley,
but standing up above a rapid with rock strainers is a bad idea!

It could be that his standing up rocked the boat enough to dump you
and your friend out. It could also be that looking back at him
interrupted your concentration and led to your falling out.

Usually paddle boats have more than two people, and you made it seem
like Charlene was on the same side as Chuck. That's odd.

Hope you didn't tip your guide!

No, from everyone else's comments, I suppose that it wasn't what anyone
other than me would call "near death". But for me, it was close enough.

As for Chuck giving his guests what they wanted, there were only two guests,
me and my friend. And then was, of course, Charlene - who did, yes, sit on
the same side as Chuck. So we actually had three on one side (the left
side), and me, and only me, on the right side.

You are insightful - because our swimming was shortly after lunch. But it
wouldn't have done any good to have eaten earlier or later - as we started
our with a Class V, and ended with a Class V. They were all pretty much
evenly spaced out.

When I was supposed to be paddling, the last thing that I would have been
doing was looking back. No, I looked back at other times. And I don't really
think that he was standing when we all went swimming. But my friend seems to
think that he actually did it for fun......

The Lower Gauley has LOTS of huge, undercut rocks - and lots of seives. As
far as I am concerned, there is NO good place to "go swimming".

And, no, I didn't tip him!

I really appreciated your comments, Bill - as well as those of everyone
else - as they have given me a clearer understanding of what I was getting
in to. It is my own fault for not finding out all of this stuff BEFORE I
went - EXPECIALLY the raft configuration of the trip. A small boat, on Class
V waves, with four people - three on the left, and me on the right - I
believe is what did it. If we had been in a larger boat with more people, I
don't believe that it would have happened.

Thanks again for taking the time to comment - I really do appreciate it!