The number one thing that I want to stress here is that - my friend and I had no business WHATSOEVER rafting on any part of the Gauley River.

I had rafted on the Ocoee ONCE before, with no mishaps, and no swimming - but I am NOT a rafter.

My friend had NO whitewater rafting experience.

And, like the rafting company ad said, this trip was even OK for novices........

And just FYI, I am a 52 year-old woman who regularly runs long distance competitive events. My friend is a 34 year-old woman who primarily leads an "inactive" life - but she is very strong - and has more strength to paddle than I do.

However, I want to detail to you how we both almost lost our lives on the Lower Gauley this past Friday, August 6.

Even though we had no business on this river in the first place, we both now question whether and how our near death experiences could have been prevented.

But most of all, if we could prevent anyone else from experiencing what we would - that is our goal.

For the sake of anonymity, I will call the rafting compnay ABC Rafting, and I will refer to two of the guides as Brad and Chuck.

Could this have been prevented?????

We arrived at ABC Rafting company well ahead of schedule. We registered, and soon Brad came over, told us he would be our guide, and he told us that we would soon be shown a safety video. The place were packed, and we were both excited our rafting trip!

Well, the place soon cleared out, and there was only my friend and I left. Apparently, all of the other people had been signed up for one of the New River trip.

Brad came back over and told us that we were waiting on a group of seven people who had mistakenly gone out with another group. They would soon be returning, and then we would be on our way.

Finally, the group of seven returned. We were all led out to get our life jackets, paddle, and helmets. I asked Brad about the safety video, but he said that he would explain everything to us on the bus.

Brad then told us that my friend and I would be in a boat with just our guide, Chuck. There would be only three of us.

Shortly after that, Chuck came over and said that Charlene would be going with us. I guess that Charlene would act sort of as an assistant.

So there was four of us that would be doing the Lower Gauley. I just casually remembered that when I had done the Ocoee, that it was a larger boat, and that there had been, I believe, a total of nine of us, including the guide. However, the only research that I had done prior to signing my friend and I up for this trip was - research on the rafting companies available. I should have done more research on whitewater rafting in general, and on the Gauley River in particular. This was my GRAVE mistake.

At any rate, we were off on our adventure!

And, Brad DID go over all of the preliminaries on the bus ride over. My friend and I both asked him to repeat some things over, and he did. We listened, asked questions, and had it all down......

Our "mishap" happened on Heaven Help Me/Us, right before Heaven's Gate.

Up to this point, we had finally begun to paddle "together" (We were both sitting in front, as per the Chuck's instructions, and Charlene was sitting in the middle location, in front of Chuck - and we made it just fine across what were terrifying Class III, IV, and close to Class V waves. We were getting the hang of it. But, yet, NEITHER of us wanted to "go swimming". THAT thought terrified us both. We both realized, before we ever got to Heaven Help Me/Us - Heaven's Gate - that we were in over our heads.

And the next several items are what now concern us both the most:

1.)

Several comments had been made that - Chuck, our guide, had just gotten out from spending a year in prison. One of these comments was made before the bus even left for the take out, and another while we were stopped for lunch. Jokes??? I don't know. Brad did warn us that our guides would be making jokes all day, and that we should learn how to differentiate jokes from the truth.

2.)

Both Chuck, our guide, and Charlene, his assistant - REPEATEDLY told us that they had no recent experience on the Gauley - that neither of them had even been on it in over a year. They BOTH kept repeating it - and acted like it was a "badge of honor". Chuck reassured us, however, that he knew how to "read" the water......

3.)

I looked back several times, right before a huge set of waves - and Chuck, our guide, was STANDING UP, yelling "Yoo hoo!" Please tell me - is STANDING UP OK? Is this customarily done by guides?? If so, then I won't feel so bad - but, quite frankly, it scared me absolutely to death.

4.)

Chuck spent so much time talking and conversing with Charlene - that my friend and I had terrific problems determining what were paddling commands - and what were conversations with Charlene. THIS was not acceptable. We both listened very carefully to everything he said - and attempted to follow precisely what he said to do. But, it was hard.......

None of would have mattered, probably, in the end, if both my friend and I had not come so close to death between Heaven Help Me/Us - Heaven's Gate.....

Just FYI, I have researched it - and I believe that Chuck's skills in navigating those particular waves was CORRECT. He did navigate left of center.

But as soon as we got left of center, both my friend and I were thrown completely out of the raft, into the air.

I can't speak for her, but she did go UNDER a rock - and was rescued by another ABC Rafting boat rafting with us, guided by Brad. There are parts that she doesn't remember - just like me.

But what happened to me, in the order that I remember them, is this:

1.) Being way in front of the boat, with our guide, Chuck, reaching out the T-grip end of the paddle to me. But I was being swept, rapidly, down stream. Trying to catch the T-Grip, but being too far away - and being swept away. I just knew that this was it. I was a complete goner.

2.) Then, a period that I don't remember - until I slammed into a rock. I, just for a second, remember Chuck in the boat, pointing for me to go away from the rock, to the left. (The rock was, going downstream, feet first, face up, on the left.)

3.) Then, a period that I don't remember. Just going under, trying to get back up.

4.) Finally, Chuck trying to grab me up by my life jacket into the boat - but I couldn't breath - as the life jacket had slid up - and was blocking all air.

Finally, I, by whatever miracle, was placed back into the boat. I asked about my friend, and she had been rescused by Brad into his boat.

I don't care what sort of errors, or misconduct, that I had thought that Chuck had done up to this point - HE SAVED MY LIFE. And he saved the life of someone who should never have been on that river to begin with. This man saved my life - absolutely - and I will forever be grateful to him.

Needless to say, both my friend and I were terrified for the remainder of the trip.

One thing that I do want to mention: My friend and I had asked Chuck, after lunch, but before Heaven Help Me/Us - Heaven's Gate, if anyone had ever died rafting on the Lower Gauley. Granted, this was an extremelly stupid question. It was stupid because I should have done the research before I ever signed my friend and I up for the trip. But, Chuck shouldn't have lied either. He told us that, NO, no one had ever died rafting on the Lower Gauley.......

We remained completely terrified - and I even asked Chuck about the possibilities of getting a helicopter in there and getting out. Neither my friend or I wanted to continue the trip.

But Chuck told us that this was not possible - that the only way to the end - was by means of the raft.

OK. My friend and I had made a huge mistake by signing up for this trip. But I don't want other people to be allowed to make the same mistkae and live through the terror that we lived through.

We both just constantly prayed all the way from Heaven Help Me/Us - Heaven's Gate - to the final last 3-1/2 miles of flat water.

Neither of us have ever been through so much terror - and we would never want anyone else to experience this either, unnecessarily.

Even though we shouldn't have been on that trip, do you think that the guide was OK??? Even after we were both back in the boat, and in definite trauma - he JUST KEPT TALKING about how this was his and Charlene's first time on this river in over a year!!! He did absolutely nothing to make us feel any better. It was almost as if he was trying to "push the envelope" as hard as he could.

Does anyone have any comments about this scenario at all????

Many thanks in advance.

Oh, and one other thing: Chuck told my friend and I that ALL FOUR OF US were thrown from the boat.

If that was the case, then you must know how long my friend were in danger - because the first time that I again saw Chuck - he was in the boat, holding the T-Grip out to me......

How did HE get back in the boat???

"Celia Oblinger" wrote in message ...
The number one thing that I want to stress here is that - my friend and I had no business WHATSOEVER rafting on any part of the Gauley River.

I had rafted on the Ocoee ONCE before, with no mishaps, and no swimming - but I am NOT a rafter.

My friend had NO whitewater rafting experience.

And, like the rafting company ad said, this trip was even OK for novices........

And just FYI, I am a 52 year-old woman who regularly runs long distance competitive events. My friend is a 34 year-old woman who primarily leads an "inactive" life - but she is very strong - and has more strength to paddle than I do.

However, I want to detail to you how we both almost lost our lives on the Lower Gauley this past Friday, August 6.

Even though we had no business on this river in the first place, we both now question whether and how our near death experiences could have been prevented.

But most of all, if we could prevent anyone else from experiencing what we would - that is our goal.

For the sake of anonymity, I will call the rafting compnay ABC Rafting, and I will refer to two of the guides as Brad and Chuck.

Could this have been prevented?????

We arrived at ABC Rafting company well ahead of schedule. We registered, and soon Brad came over, told us he would be our guide, and he told us that we would soon be shown a safety video. The place were packed, and we were both excited our rafting trip!

Well, the place soon cleared out, and there was only my friend and I left. Apparently, all of the other people had been signed up for one of the New River trip.

Brad came back over and told us that we were waiting on a group of seven people who had mistakenly gone out with another group. They would soon be returning, and then we would be on our way.

Finally, the group of seven returned. We were all led out to get our life jackets, paddle, and helmets. I asked Brad about the safety video, but he said that he would explain everything to us on the bus.

Brad then told us that my friend and I would be in a boat with just our guide, Chuck. There would be only three of us.

Shortly after that, Chuck came over and said that Charlene would be going with us. I guess that Charlene would act sort of as an assistant.

So there was four of us that would be doing the Lower Gauley. I just casually remembered that when I had done the Ocoee, that it was a larger boat, and that there had been, I believe, a total of nine of us, including the guide. However, the only research that I had done prior to signing my friend and I up for this trip was - research on the rafting companies available. I should have done more research on whitewater rafting in general, and on the Gauley River in particular. This was my GRAVE mistake.

At any rate, we were off on our adventure!

And, Brad DID go over all of the preliminaries on the bus ride over. My friend and I both asked him to repeat some things over, and he did. We listened, asked questions, and had it all down......

Our "mishap" happened on Heaven Help Me/Us, right before Heaven's Gate.

Up to this point, we had finally begun to paddle "together" (We were both sitting in front, as per the Chuck's instructions, and Charlene was sitting in the middle location, in front of Chuck - and we made it just fine across what were terrifying Class III, IV, and close to Class V waves. We were getting the hang of it. But, yet, NEITHER of us wanted to "go swimming". THAT thought terrified us both. We both realized, before we ever got to Heaven Help Me/Us - Heaven's Gate - that we were in over our heads.

And the next several items are what now concern us both the most:

1.)

Several comments had been made that - Chuck, our guide, had just gotten out from spending a year in prison. One of these comments was made before the bus even left for the take out, and another while we were stopped for lunch. Jokes??? I don't know. Brad did warn us that our guides would be making jokes all day, and that we should learn how to differentiate jokes from the truth.

2.)

Both Chuck, our guide, and Charlene, his assistant - REPEATEDLY told us that they had no recent experience on the Gauley - that neither of them had even been on it in over a year. They BOTH kept repeating it - and acted like it was a "badge of honor". Chuck reassured us, however, that he knew how to "read" the water......

3.)

I looked back several times, right before a huge set of waves - and Chuck, our guide, was STANDING UP, yelling "Yoo hoo!" Please tell me - is STANDING UP OK? Is this customarily done by guides?? If so, then I won't feel so bad - but, quite frankly, it scared me absolutely to death.

4.)

Chuck spent so much time talking and conversing with Charlene - that my friend and I had terrific problems determining what were paddling commands - and what were conversations with Charlene. THIS was not acceptable. We both listened very carefully to everything he said - and attempted to follow precisely what he said to do. But, it was hard.......

None of would have mattered, probably, in the end, if both my friend and I had not come so close to death between Heaven Help Me/Us - Heaven's Gate.....

Just FYI, I have researched it - and I believe that Chuck's skills in navigating those particular waves was CORRECT. He did navigate left of center.

But as soon as we got left of center, both my friend and I were thrown completely out of the raft, into the air.

I can't speak for her, but she did go UNDER a rock - and was rescued by another ABC Rafting boat rafting with us, guided by Brad. There are parts that she doesn't remember - just like me.

But what happened to me, in the order that I remember them, is this:

1.) Being way in front of the boat, with our guide, Chuck, reaching out the T-grip end of the paddle to me. But I was being swept, rapidly, down stream. Trying to catch the T-Grip, but being too far away - and being swept away. I just knew that this was it. I was a complete goner.

2.) Then, a period that I don't remember - until I slammed into a rock. I, just for a second, remember Chuck in the boat, pointing for me to go away from the rock, to the left. (The rock was, going downstream, feet first, face up, on the left.)

3.) Then, a period that I don't remember. Just going under, trying to get back up.

4.) Finally, Chuck trying to grab me up by my life jacket into the boat - but I couldn't breath - as the life jacket had slid up - and was blocking all air.

Finally, I, by whatever miracle, was placed back into the boat. I asked about my friend, and she had been rescused by Brad into his boat.

I don't care what sort of errors, or misconduct, that I had thought that Chuck had done up to this point - HE SAVED MY LIFE. And he saved the life of someone who should never have been on that river to begin with. This man saved my life - absolutely - and I will forever be grateful to him.

Needless to say, both my friend and I were terrified for the remainder of the trip.

One thing that I do want to mention: My friend and I had asked Chuck, after lunch, but before Heaven Help Me/Us - Heaven's Gate, if anyone had ever died rafting on the Lower Gauley. Granted, this was an extremelly stupid question. It was stupid because I should have done the research before I ever signed my friend and I up for the trip. But, Chuck shouldn't have lied either. He told us that, NO, no one had ever died rafting on the Lower Gauley.......

We remained completely terrified - and I even asked Chuck about the possibilities of getting a helicopter in there and getting out. Neither my friend or I wanted to continue the trip.

But Chuck told us that this was not possible - that the only way to the end - was by means of the raft.

OK. My friend and I had made a huge mistake by signing up for this trip. But I don't want other people to be allowed to make the same mistkae and live through the terror that we lived through.

We both just constantly prayed all the way from Heaven Help Me/Us - Heaven's Gate - to the final last 3-1/2 miles of flat water.

Neither of us have ever been through so much terror - and we would never want anyone else to experience this either, unnecessarily.

Even though we shouldn't have been on that trip, do you think that the guide was OK??? Even after we were both back in the boat, and in definite trauma - he JUST KEPT TALKING about how this was his and Charlene's first time on this river in over a year!!! He did absolutely nothing to make us feel any better. It was almost as if he was trying to "push the envelope" as hard as he could.

Does anyone have any comments about this scenario at all????

Many thanks in advance.

Celia Oblinger wrote:

Oh, and one other thing: Chuck told my friend and I that ALL FOUR
OF US were thrown from the boat.

If that was the case, then you must know how long my friend were
in danger - because the first time that I again saw Chuck - he was
in the boat, holding the T-Grip out to me......

How did HE get back in the boat???

Experienced rafters, a group in which most guides are included,
can climb back into a raft by grabbing onto the side handles or
rope-line, kicking the feet for acceleration, and doing a pull-up.
When a raft flips upside-down, the situation is similar but worse.

Before I answer all your questions, if someone else doesn't
answer them to your satisfaction, let me ask you for more details.

During the ABC Company's safety talk, did they mention what to do
if you fell out of the raft? Did they give you pointers in how to
stay in the raft by putting weight on your feet, as if you're skiing,
or holding onto some handle?

Yes, the rafting company gave us good instructions on how to place our feet
to stay in the raft, and, I knew this, too, from having previously done
Ocoee. But they never mentioned about holding on to a handle or other
similar device.... I did anyway, when I could.

And, they did tell us what to do if we fell out of the raft. And, actually,
what they had told us to do - really helped my girlfriend with her
situation. However, the first that I remember, after flying out of the raft,
was being on my stomach, facing Chuck (in the boat) as he was trying to
extend the T-Grip end of a paddle to me. This, on my part, was TOTALLY
wrong. I should have been on my back, feet first, going downstream - NOT
face down swimming UPstream to try to get to Chuck's paddle.

That's a good explanation for how he got back in the boat - and I thank you
for giving it.

As I said earlier, no matter what else may or may not have happened, Chuck
did save my life - and I am now still alive to tell about it. But, at the
time, I really did feel as though I was spending my last moments.....

But I have decided that I don't want to die among rocks in a river - all for
the thrill of whitewater waves (And they ARE thrilling - when all is going
as it should!).

Three years ago, I spent a week and a half trekking from 8000 ft. to 18000
ft. - to Mt. Everest Base Camp from Lukla. At the time, it was the hardest
thing that I have ever done. Not so anymore. The Lower Gauley now has that
definite distinction.

Thanks to everyone for all of this comments and help!

"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message
...
Celia Oblinger wrote:

Oh, and one other thing: Chuck told my friend and I that ALL FOUR
OF US were thrown from the boat.

If that was the case, then you must know how long my friend were
in danger - because the first time that I again saw Chuck - he was
in the boat, holding the T-Grip out to me......

How did HE get back in the boat???

Experienced rafters, a group in which most guides are included,
can climb back into a raft by grabbing onto the side handles or
rope-line, kicking the feet for acceleration, and doing a pull-up.
When a raft flips upside-down, the situation is similar but worse.

Before I answer all your questions, if someone else doesn't
answer them to your satisfaction, let me ask you for more details.

During the ABC Company's safety talk, did they mention what to do
if you fell out of the raft? Did they give you pointers in how to
stay in the raft by putting weight on your feet, as if you're skiing,
or holding onto some handle?

Been boating (kayak) the Gauley (Upper and lower)for 'bout ten years
now. I'm 55.
I would agree that the guides (all of 'em as far as I can tell) do
exaggerate the difficulty of the rapids and rivers. This makes the
trip more fun and significant. Of course, sometimes it's a good idea
to put the fear into the customers so they will take it seriously. I
also believe that a lot of whitewater rivers are treated as an
amusement park ride. If not by commercial outfitters and guides,
certianly by the paying public.
Of course, one persons class III is anothers class V. I recall that
Nantahala falls (a very popular rapid on a very popular river in
western NC, USA) used to be rated a V. Most would agree that it is a
III. (As the late Mr Nealy said, "It hasn't gotten easier, we've
gotten better.") It has also claimed several lives in recent years.
The lower G has some bad spots, all rivers do, but I would agree with
most respondents that it is not a class V river. Even at high levels.
Any body of moving water can be dangerous. If you get on it, you are
definately taking your life into your own, or someone elses', hand. It
is _your_ responsibility to make sure that those hands are up to the
task.
Enough rambling. Here is a good rating scale.

International System for Rating Rapids
This section © 2002 by David Petterson of Calgary Paddlers.


Class I, Easy. Fast moving water with riffles and small waves.
Swimming is pleasant, shore easily reached. A nice break from
paddling. Almost all gear and equipment is recovered.
Boat is just slightly scratched.

Class II, Novice. Straightforward rapids with wide, clear channels
which are evident without scouting. Swimming to eddies requires
moderate effort. Climbing out of river may involve
slippery rocks and shrub-induced lacerations. Paddle travels great
distance downstream
requiring lengthy walk. Something unimportant is missing. Boat hits
submerged rock leaving visible dent on frame or new gash in plastic.

Class III, Intermediate. Rapids with moderate, irregular waves which
may be difficult to avoid. Water is swallowed. Legs are ground
repeatedly against sharp, pointy rocks. Several eddies
are missed while swimming. Difficult decision to stay with boat
results in moment of terror when swimmer realizes they are downstream
of boat. Paddle is recirculated in small hole way upstream. All
personal possessions are removed from boat and floated in different
directions. Paddling partners run along river bank shouting helpful
instructions. Boat is munched against large boulder hard enough to
leave series of deep gouges. Sunglasses fall off.

Class IV, Advanced. Water is generally lots colder than Class III.
Intense, powerful but predictable rapids requiring precise swimming in
turbulent water. Swimming may require `must' moves above dangerous
hazards. Must moves are downgraded to `strongly recommended' after
they are missed. Sensation of disbelief experienced while about to
swim large drops. Frantic swimming towards shore is alternated with
frantic swimming away from shore to avoid strainers. Rocks are clung
to with death grip. Paddle is completely forgotten. One shoe is
removed. Hydraulic pressure permanently removes waterproof box with
all the really important stuff. Paddle partners running along stream
look genuinely concerned while lofting throw ropes 20 feet behind
swimmer. Paddle partners stare slack-jawed and point in amazement at
boat which is finally pinned by major feature. Climbing up river bank
involves inverted tree. One of those spring loaded pins that attaches
watch to wristband is missing. Contact lenses are
moved to rear of eyeballs.

Class V, Expert. The water in this rapid is usually under 42 degrees
F. Most gear is destroyed on rocks within minutes if not seconds. If
the boat survives, it is need of about three days of
repair. There is no swimming, only frantic movements to keep from
becoming one with
the rocks and to get a breath from time to time. Terror and panic set
in as you realize your paddle partners don't have a chance in heck of
reaching you. You come to a true understanding of the terms maytagging
and pinballing. That hole that looked like nothing when
scouted, has a hydraulic that holds you under the water until your
lungs are close to bursting. You come out only to realize you still
have 75% of the rapid left to swim. Swim to the eddy?
What #%^&*#* eddy!? This rapid usually lasts a mile or more. Hydraulic
pressure within the first few seconds removes everything that can come
off your body. This includes gloves, shoes, neoprene socks,
sunglasses, hats, and clothing. The rocks take care of your
fingers, toes, and ears. That $900.00 dry suit, well it might hold up
to the rocks. Your
paddle is trash. If there is a strainer, well, just hope it is old and
rotten so it breaks. Paddle partners on shore are frantically trying
to run and keep up with you. Their horror is
reflected in their faces as they stare at how you are being tossed
around! They are hoping to remember how to do CPR. They also really
hope the cooler with the beer is still intact. They are going to need
a cold one by the time you get out! Climbing out of this happens after
the
rapid is over. You will probably need the help of a backboard,
cervical collar and Z-rig. Even though you have broken bones,
lacerations, puncture wounds, missing digits & ears,
and a concussion, you won't feel much pain because you will have
severe hypothermia. Enjoy your stay in the hospital: with the time you
take recovering, you won't get another vacation for 3 years.

Class VI, World Class. Not recommended for swimming.

Ahhh, the thrill of being ejected from a raft on the Lower Gauley! Same
thing happened to me, once upon a time. Sounds like a pretty typical
rafting trip to me ;-)

sounds about right ,our guide cleared the boat,because none of our group had
swam in two days of paddling.

I'm learning, apparently, that what I experienced was "pretty normal".

I guess it would be normal to real whitewater rafters - but that, I am not.
It scared me to totally near death.

I am not one of those who will return for more heightened thrills, or even a
repeat of the ones that I experienced on the Lower Gauley.

But it WAS an experience that I will NEVER forget!

Thanks for your comments!

"Felsenmeer" wrote in message
...
Ahhh, the thrill of being ejected from a raft on the Lower Gauley! Same
thing happened to me, once upon a time. Sounds like a pretty typical
rafting trip to me ;-)

I'm learning, apparently, that what I experienced was "pretty normal".

I guess it would be normal to real whitewater rafters - but that, I am
not.
It scared me to totally near death.

I am not one of those who will return for more heightened thrills, or even
a
repeat of the ones that I experienced on the Lower Gauley.

But it WAS an experience that I will NEVER forget!

Thanks for your comments!


Personally, I think you should confront your fears, to use a little
psychobabble :-) Do it again! I bet you'll have a blast. In fact, you
might even be tempted to try the UPPER Gauley :-) You'll see- whitewater is
addictive!!!

That's why I paddle whitewater, in a canoe.
I wish I were 52...... again.