On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful.
I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them,
and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence,
you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop?
When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are
bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands
tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and
dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at
record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get
behind your proposal that puts them at real risk.

I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with
the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day.
However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like
for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security.
If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime
if you can't do the time.



The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor
traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for
something else.

My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done?



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On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 9:30:51 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful.
I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them,
and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence,
you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop?
When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are
bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands
tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and
dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at
record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get
behind your proposal that puts them at real risk.

I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with
the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day.
However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like
for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security.
If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime
if you can't do the time.

The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor
traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for
something else.

I guess I misread this?

"The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue."

We can't expect police to stop a vehicle for some traffic violation,
then just walk up to the driver's window without running the plate.
If that's what you are proposing, then expect a lot more dead cops.
Plenty have died doing just that even with running the plates first.

And if a cop pulls someone over and discovers they have an outstanding
warrant for burglary and assault, are you really wanting them to ignore that?
I don't. What if the burglary and assault were at your son's or daughter's house?
Feel differently about that?

My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done?

About racial profiling? It has been deemed unconstitutional for years and there
are various laws against doing it.
"Federal and state laws prohibit racial discrimination or profiling by police in various
ways. The U.S. Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law and protects
individuals from unreasonable search and seizure. The federal Civil Rights Act and
many states civil or human rights acts make it illegal for a government actor
(like the police) to discriminate against someone on the basis of race, color,
or national origin. And a number of states' laws also specifically prohibit officers from
engaging in racial profiling in the performance of their duties."

So are there some bad cops who profile. Likely.
Are there some bad people who falsely accuse cops of profiling them? Likely as well.
One thing is for sure... neutering or defunding the police (which is a bit of what you are
suggesting and what many in today's society want to do) is certainly not the answer. I don't
want to live in a third-world kind of country where the bad guys rule the streets and the police
are powerless to do anything about it. Do you?

On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 09:30:50 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful.
I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them,
and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence,
you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop?
When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are
bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands
tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and
dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at
record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get
behind your proposal that puts them at real risk.

I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with
the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day.
However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like
for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security.
If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime
if you can't do the time.



The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor
traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for
something else.

My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done?

Dante Wright was driving with bad tags. That is not a minor offense.
In states that are serious about taxes (probably yours) the BEST you
can hope for is a ticket and a cab ride home because they will tow
your car. I know that is how it works in Md. It is the same with
insurance, which Mr Wright did not have. The cop probably knew that
too. I know insurance status pops up as soon as the cop runs your tag
in Florida.
Once they impound the car, they will "inventory" the contents "for
your protection" but if they find anything illegal, you get charged
for that too. They can already search the parts of the car "for
weapons" accessible to the occupants. Again in that "weapons search"
if they turn up anything illegal, off you go.

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 4:59:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 09:30:50 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful.
I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them,
and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence,
you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop?
When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are
bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands
tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and
dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at
record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get
behind your proposal that puts them at real risk.

I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with
the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day.
However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like
for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security.
If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime
if you can't do the time.



The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor
traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for
something else.

My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done?
Dante Wright was driving with bad tags. That is not a minor offense.
In states that are serious about taxes (probably yours) the BEST you
can hope for is a ticket and a cab ride home because they will tow
your car. I know that is how it works in Md. It is the same with
insurance, which Mr Wright did not have. The cop probably knew that
too. I know insurance status pops up as soon as the cop runs your tag
in Florida.
Once they impound the car, they will "inventory" the contents "for
your protection" but if they find anything illegal, you get charged
for that too. They can already search the parts of the car "for
weapons" accessible to the occupants. Again in that "weapons search"
if they turn up anything illegal, off you go.

The technology has been around for many years for a police car to simply
cruise a parking lot or drive down a road and get hits from tags. They have
cameras facing all four sides, and the cameras look at the tags, reads them
and sends the info back to a database to run them for issues. I saw a
demonstration of this, and it only took a 1/4 second "glimpse" of the tag
to read it and get the info. A positive hit results in an apprehension, or at
least a stop to investigate. I'm all for it. I have nothing to hide.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem
to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that
result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that
caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very
useful.
I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not
engage them,
and let them go so things don't get violent?Â* If the person has a
history of violence,
Â* you don't think the officer should know about that when making a
legal stop?
When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are
bringing into your company everyday.Â* But police officers should have
their hands
tied and not know who they are dealing with?Â* They are doing a very
valuable and
dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving
their jobs at
record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately.Â*
I just can't get
behind your proposal that puts them at real risk.

I have an idea.Â* If the person being stopped could act properly and
treat the officer with
the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone
will go on about their day.
However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for
their arrest, I'd like
for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's
safety and security.
If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too
damn bad.Â* Don't do the crime
if you can't do the time.



The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor
traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for
something else.

My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done?




These are two different issues.Â* Stopping someone because they are black
is just wrong.Â* Stopping someone for a legitimate infraction and finding
out they have a warrant is grounds for detaining them. There are plenty
of non-black people with warrants.Â* The LEO should have that information
so they can respond accordingly.Â* What they do from there is a matter of
training and the law.

On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 19:57:24 -0400, Alex wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem
to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that
result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that
caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very
useful.
I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not
engage them,
and let them go so things don't get violent?Â* If the person has a
history of violence,
Â* you don't think the officer should know about that when making a
legal stop?
When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are
bringing into your company everyday.Â* But police officers should have
their hands
tied and not know who they are dealing with?Â* They are doing a very
valuable and
dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving
their jobs at
record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately.Â*
I just can't get
behind your proposal that puts them at real risk.

I have an idea.Â* If the person being stopped could act properly and
treat the officer with
the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone
will go on about their day.
However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for
their arrest, I'd like
for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's
safety and security.
If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too
damn bad.Â* Don't do the crime
if you can't do the time.



The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor
traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for
something else.

My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done?




These are two different issues.Â* Stopping someone because they are black
is just wrong.Â* Stopping someone for a legitimate infraction and finding
out they have a warrant is grounds for detaining them. There are plenty
of non-black people with warrants.Â* The LEO should have that information
so they can respond accordingly.Â* What they do from there is a matter of
training and the law.

My DC cop buddy (High school friend I still talk to) explained it
another way. When he sees a car with bad tags and equipment violations
he assumes if this guy is not maintaining his vehicle or his
registration, there is a good chance he doesn't have insurance and
there may be other legal things he has not attended to, like a warrant
for failure to appear.
Is that profiling or just reasonable suspicion?
No matter what he know he has a bad tag charge.


Dante wasn't even that innocent. He had a felony warrant for violating
the terms of his bail. He was going to be held without bond until his
trial for armed robbery. The stop was botched from the beginning and
the other officer is as negligent as Potter who shot him. They should
have never lost control of the subject. Wright should have been
behind the car with both hands on the trunk and the cop should have
been able to cuff him in seconds, not fumble around like he did.
The whole damned thing looked like a training film of what not to do.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful.
I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them,
and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence,
you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop?
When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are
bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands
tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and
dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at
record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get
behind your proposal that puts them at real risk.

I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with
the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will
go on about their day.
However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like
for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security.
If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn
bad. Don't do the crime
if you can't do the time.



The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor
traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for
something else.

My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done?




We have all been stopped for minor offense, like no brake lights, broken
tail light, failure to,signal, etc. They always run the license plate
first, to see if the car is known from a crime to be stolen or dangerous.
Same with the drivers license. Is it legal, suspended, etc. So, you are
just going to have a cop walk to a car without knowing anything about what
they are stopping? Maybe, if black lives mattered, the black community
would make,sure the kids finished school, and did not shoot each other with
so much frequency. How can Chuvin bee guilty of murder when trying to
restrain a violent person, but the Federal Government says there is no
evidence of a crime if a Federal officer shoots a unarmed fat white lady?

On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 16:08:43 UTC-3, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful.
I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them,
and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence,
you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop?
When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are
bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands
tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and
dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at
record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get
behind your proposal that puts them at real risk.

I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with
the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will
go on about their day.
However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like
for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security.
If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn
bad. Don't do the crime
if you can't do the time.



The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor
traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for
something else.

My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done?



We have all been stopped for minor offense, like no brake lights, broken
tail light, failure to,signal, etc. They always run the license plate
first, to see if the car is known from a crime to be stolen or dangerous.
Same with the drivers license. Is it legal, suspended, etc. So, you are
just going to have a cop walk to a car without knowing anything about what
they are stopping? Maybe, if black lives mattered, the black community
would make,sure the kids finished school, and did not shoot each other with
so much frequency. How can Chuvin bee guilty of murder when trying to
restrain a violent person, but the Federal Government says there is no
evidence of a crime if a Federal officer shoots a unarmed fat white lady?


No...we haven't.
I can't remember the last time I was stopped by a cop, maybe in the early 80s.
I keep everything working on my Highlander, obey all traffic signals etc and rarely exceed the posted speed limit.

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:17:51 -0700 (PDT), True North
wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 16:08:43 UTC-3, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful.
I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them,
and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence,
you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop?
When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are
bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands
tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and
dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at
record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get
behind your proposal that puts them at real risk.

I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with
the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will
go on about their day.
However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like
for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security.
If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn
bad. Don't do the crime
if you can't do the time.



The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor
traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for
something else.

My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done?



We have all been stopped for minor offense, like no brake lights, broken
tail light, failure to,signal, etc. They always run the license plate
first, to see if the car is known from a crime to be stolen or dangerous.
Same with the drivers license. Is it legal, suspended, etc. So, you are
just going to have a cop walk to a car without knowing anything about what
they are stopping? Maybe, if black lives mattered, the black community
would make,sure the kids finished school, and did not shoot each other with
so much frequency. How can Chuvin bee guilty of murder when trying to
restrain a violent person, but the Federal Government says there is no
evidence of a crime if a Federal officer shoots a unarmed fat white lady?


No...we haven't.
I can't remember the last time I was stopped by a cop, maybe in the early 80s.
I keep everything working on my Highlander, obey all traffic signals etc and rarely exceed the posted speed limit.

On the one hand you say, "No...we haven't." Then you contradict yourself with
your stop by a cop 'in the early 80's'.

Just how f'ing stupid are you?
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

John wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:17:51 -0700 (PDT), True North
wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 16:08:43 UTC-3, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.
If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful.
I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.
So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them,
and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence,
you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop?
When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are
bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands
tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and
dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at
record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get
behind your proposal that puts them at real risk.

I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with
the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will
go on about their day.
However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like
for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security.
If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn
bad. Don't do the crime
if you can't do the time.


The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor
traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for
something else.

My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done?



We have all been stopped for minor offense, like no brake lights, broken
tail light, failure to,signal, etc. They always run the license plate
first, to see if the car is known from a crime to be stolen or dangerous.
Same with the drivers license. Is it legal, suspended, etc. So, you are
just going to have a cop walk to a car without knowing anything about what
they are stopping? Maybe, if black lives mattered, the black community
would make,sure the kids finished school, and did not shoot each other with
so much frequency. How can Chuvin bee guilty of murder when trying to
restrain a violent person, but the Federal Government says there is no
evidence of a crime if a Federal officer shoots a unarmed fat white lady?

No...we haven't.
I can't remember the last time I was stopped by a cop, maybe in the early 80s.
I keep everything working on my Highlander, obey all traffic signals etc and rarely exceed the posted speed limit.
On the one hand you say, "No...we haven't." Then you contradict yourself with
your stop by a cop 'in the early 80's'.

Just how f'ing stupid are you?
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

Very