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  #51   Report Post  
posted to rec.boats
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jul 2007
Posts: 36,387
Default A proposal

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:08:42 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful.
I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them,
and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence,
you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop?
When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are
bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands
tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and
dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at
record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get
behind your proposal that puts them at real risk.

I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with
the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will
go on about their day.
However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like
for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security.
If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn
bad. Don't do the crime
if you can't do the time.



The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor
traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for
something else.

My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done?




We have all been stopped for minor offense, like no brake lights, broken
tail light, failure to,signal, etc. They always run the license plate
first, to see if the car is known from a crime to be stolen or dangerous.
Same with the drivers license. Is it legal, suspended, etc. So, you are
just going to have a cop walk to a car without knowing anything about what
they are stopping? Maybe, if black lives mattered, the black community
would make,sure the kids finished school, and did not shoot each other with
so much frequency. How can Chuvin bee guilty of murder when trying to
restrain a violent person, but the Federal Government says there is no
evidence of a crime if a Federal officer shoots a unarmed fat white lady?


I was stopped for speding a couple weeks ago and the cop knew all
about me before he got out of his car.
I handed him my license and started to get my insurance card and
registration when he just said "Are you still with USAA Mr Fretwell"?
Then he asked me if I had a firearm. My CCW popped on his computer
too.
I was polite, called him sir, in spite of being twice his age and got
away with a warning for 23 over ;-)
I am sure if I tried, I could have been shot.

  #52   Report Post  
posted to rec.boats
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jan 2017
Posts: 4,553
Default A proposal

True North wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 20:53:04 UTC-3, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 11:09:22 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem
to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very
useful.

I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

It very well could be.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in
searching
the law enforcement's data base for warrants.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now.

That was not the point of my "proposal".

I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because
they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt
because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding
warrant.

If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine,
arrest the person.

If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or
inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be
guilty of and receive a ticket.

I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common
sense. But the ability of the police to arrest
you for something else in your record that had nothing
to do with the reason for stopping the person in the
first place, will result in these
shootings and killings to continue.

Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony.
Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony.
Failure to pay child support is not a death
penalty crime.

If someone is guilty of the above, they should be
located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding
warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems
too often escalates into a shooting.

I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a
screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just
trying to think of ways to keep people alive.




Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring,
and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they
operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently,
and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the
public or the police is obvious and imminent.

George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding
him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely.
Period.

George Floyd could have said he gives up and he will get in the car at
any time. It would have ended then. He chose to continue to resist and
refused to get in the car.



Appears the jury didn't agree with you.


The jury was not considering his refusal to get in the car. They were
judging if the cop overreacted to the refusal. He did. The other cops
standing there should also be charged with something. None moved to stop
the kneeling. Same as all the cops standing around when Rodney King was
being kicked by the cops while on the ground, should have been fired and
charged with accessory to assault.

  #53   Report Post  
posted to rec.boats
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,981
Default A proposal

On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.


If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful.


I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.


Just have the cop yell, "Taser, taser, taser," then shoot him with a
gun. Seems logical.
--
Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet?


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html
  #54   Report Post  
posted to rec.boats
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jul 2007
Posts: 36,387
Default A proposal

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:45 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:52:54 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 4/21/21 6:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/21/2021 11:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that
seem to be
constantly in the news.Â* The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions
that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that
result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID.Â* That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person.Â* If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that
caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever.Â* It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be
very useful.

I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

It very well could be.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal
in searching
the law enforcement's data base for warrants.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now.

That was not the point of my "proposal".

I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because
they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt
because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding
warrant.

If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine,
arrest the person.

If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or
inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be
guilty of and receive a ticket.

I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common
sense.Â* But the ability of the police to arrest
you for something else in your record that had nothing
to do with the reason for stopping the person in the
first place, will result in these
shootings and killings to continue.

Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony.
Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony.
Failure to pay child support is not a death
penalty crime.

If someone is guilty of the above, they should be
located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding
warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems
too often escalates into a shooting.

I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a
screwed-up screaming liberal like some.Â* Just
trying to think of ways to keep people alive.




Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring,
and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they
operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently,
and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the
public or the police is obvious and imminent.

George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops
surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be
moved safely. Period.



The jury's verdict was completely justified.

My "proposal" obviously makes little sense if one stays in the
thinking that they have been accustom to.Â* I was simply trying
to think outside the box a little to address racial profiling
that I am 100 percent convinced occurs on a regular basis.

Did you hear or read about the Maryland state cop that shot and
killed a teenage white female a couple of weeks ago?

Very little to no media coverage about it.Â* Why?

No, but I did read of a state trooper here who shot a kit who pointed an
"airsoft" pistol at him.


If one of these were pointed at me, I'd shoot also.

https://eu.novritsch.com/product/nov...irsoft-pistol/


I found myself looking at airsoft guns the other day and if you are
willing to spend over $100 for a CO2 version, they get damned
realistic, right down to the operating controls. People use them to
drill for their real firearm.
OTOH I ended up with a couple of cheap plastic ones in an auction lot
and they look pretty real too if you don't get close.
  #55   Report Post  
posted to rec.boats
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jul 2007
Posts: 36,387
Default A proposal

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:58:51 -0700 (PDT), True North
wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 20:53:04 UTC-3, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 11:09:22 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem
to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very
useful.

I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

It very well could be.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in
searching
the law enforcement's data base for warrants.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now.

That was not the point of my "proposal".

I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because
they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt
because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding
warrant.

If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine,
arrest the person.

If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or
inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be
guilty of and receive a ticket.

I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common
sense. But the ability of the police to arrest
you for something else in your record that had nothing
to do with the reason for stopping the person in the
first place, will result in these
shootings and killings to continue.

Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony.
Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony.
Failure to pay child support is not a death
penalty crime.

If someone is guilty of the above, they should be
located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding
warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems
too often escalates into a shooting.

I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a
screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just
trying to think of ways to keep people alive.




Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring,
and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they
operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently,
and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the
public or the police is obvious and imminent.

George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding
him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely.
Period.

George Floyd could have said he gives up and he will get in the car at
any time. It would have ended then. He chose to continue to resist and
refused to get in the car.



Appears the jury didn't agree with you.


The question of whether Floyd was still resisting getting in the car
never came up. It really didn't matter tho because there was so much
pressure on that jury to convict, the outcome was predetermined. That
is why I expect the appeal to succeed.
That will be a year or two away and everyone will have forgotten about
the late lamented Mr Floyd and nobody will notice what happens to
Chauvin.


  #56   Report Post  
posted to rec.boats
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,257
Default A proposal

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 02:29:13 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:45 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:52:54 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 4/21/21 6:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/21/2021 11:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that
seem to be
constantly in the news.* The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions
that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that
result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID.* That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person.* If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that
caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever.* It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be
very useful.

I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

It very well could be.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal
in searching
the law enforcement's data base for warrants.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now.

That was not the point of my "proposal".

I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because
they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt
because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding
warrant.

If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine,
arrest the person.

If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or
inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be
guilty of and receive a ticket.

I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common
sense.* But the ability of the police to arrest
you for something else in your record that had nothing
to do with the reason for stopping the person in the
first place, will result in these
shootings and killings to continue.

Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony.
Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony.
Failure to pay child support is not a death
penalty crime.

If someone is guilty of the above, they should be
located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding
warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems
too often escalates into a shooting.

I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a
screwed-up screaming liberal like some.* Just
trying to think of ways to keep people alive.




Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring,
and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they
operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently,
and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the
public or the police is obvious and imminent.

George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops
surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be
moved safely. Period.



The jury's verdict was completely justified.

My "proposal" obviously makes little sense if one stays in the
thinking that they have been accustom to.* I was simply trying
to think outside the box a little to address racial profiling
that I am 100 percent convinced occurs on a regular basis.

Did you hear or read about the Maryland state cop that shot and
killed a teenage white female a couple of weeks ago?

Very little to no media coverage about it.* Why?

No, but I did read of a state trooper here who shot a kit who pointed an
"airsoft" pistol at him.


If one of these were pointed at me, I'd shoot also.

https://eu.novritsch.com/product/nov...irsoft-pistol/

I found myself looking at airsoft guns the other day and if you are
willing to spend over $100 for a CO2 version, they get damned
realistic, right down to the operating controls. People use them to
drill for their real firearm.
OTOH I ended up with a couple of cheap plastic ones in an auction lot
and they look pretty real too if you don't get close.


I suppose Harry's state trooper was supposed to wait until the kid fired the
weapon before taking any action.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!
  #57   Report Post  
posted to rec.boats
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,507
Default A proposal

On 4/22/21 2:29 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:45 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:52:54 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 4/21/21 6:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/21/2021 11:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that
seem to be
constantly in the news.Â* The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions
that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that
result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID.Â* That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person.Â* If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that
caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever.Â* It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be
very useful.

I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

It very well could be.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal
in searching
the law enforcement's data base for warrants.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now.

That was not the point of my "proposal".

I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because
they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt
because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding
warrant.

If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine,
arrest the person.

If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or
inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be
guilty of and receive a ticket.

I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common
sense.Â* But the ability of the police to arrest
you for something else in your record that had nothing
to do with the reason for stopping the person in the
first place, will result in these
shootings and killings to continue.

Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony.
Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony.
Failure to pay child support is not a death
penalty crime.

If someone is guilty of the above, they should be
located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding
warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems
too often escalates into a shooting.

I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a
screwed-up screaming liberal like some.Â* Just
trying to think of ways to keep people alive.




Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring,
and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they
operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently,
and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the
public or the police is obvious and imminent.

George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops
surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be
moved safely. Period.



The jury's verdict was completely justified.

My "proposal" obviously makes little sense if one stays in the
thinking that they have been accustom to.Â* I was simply trying
to think outside the box a little to address racial profiling
that I am 100 percent convinced occurs on a regular basis.

Did you hear or read about the Maryland state cop that shot and
killed a teenage white female a couple of weeks ago?

Very little to no media coverage about it.Â* Why?

No, but I did read of a state trooper here who shot a kit who pointed an
"airsoft" pistol at him.


If one of these were pointed at me, I'd shoot also.

https://eu.novritsch.com/product/nov...irsoft-pistol/

I found myself looking at airsoft guns the other day and if you are
willing to spend over $100 for a CO2 version, they get damned
realistic, right down to the operating controls. People use them to
drill for their real firearm.
OTOH I ended up with a couple of cheap plastic ones in an auction lot
and they look pretty real too if you don't get close.


If you point a gun at a cop, even a toy gun that looks realistic, you
deserve what you get. I've only seen a couple of "Airsoft" pistols, and
they look like the real deal. If your wallet, comb, cellphone, et
cetera, in your hand, however, you do not deserve to be shot by a cop.
Part of the job of a cop is to be damned sure of what you are doing in
regard to using deadly force. It is part of the risk of the job.

--
* Lock up Trump and his family of grifters. *
  #58   Report Post  
posted to rec.boats
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,507
Default A proposal

On 4/22/21 2:33 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:58:51 -0700 (PDT), True North
wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 20:53:04 UTC-3, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 11:09:22 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem
to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very
useful.

I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

It very well could be.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in
searching
the law enforcement's data base for warrants.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now.

That was not the point of my "proposal".

I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because
they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt
because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding
warrant.

If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine,
arrest the person.

If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or
inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be
guilty of and receive a ticket.

I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common
sense. But the ability of the police to arrest
you for something else in your record that had nothing
to do with the reason for stopping the person in the
first place, will result in these
shootings and killings to continue.

Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony.
Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony.
Failure to pay child support is not a death
penalty crime.

If someone is guilty of the above, they should be
located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding
warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems
too often escalates into a shooting.

I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a
screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just
trying to think of ways to keep people alive.




Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring,
and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they
operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently,
and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the
public or the police is obvious and imminent.

George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding
him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely.
Period.
George Floyd could have said he gives up and he will get in the car at
any time. It would have ended then. He chose to continue to resist and
refused to get in the car.



Appears the jury didn't agree with you.


The question of whether Floyd was still resisting getting in the car
never came up. It really didn't matter tho because there was so much
pressure on that jury to convict, the outcome was predetermined. That
is why I expect the appeal to succeed.
That will be a year or two away and everyone will have forgotten about
the late lamented Mr Floyd and nobody will notice what happens to
Chauvin.


Apparently you have not watched the nine minute video of Chauvin
crushing the life out of Floyd, who was handcuffed on the pavement.

--
* Lock up Trump and his family of grifters. *
  #59   Report Post  
posted to rec.boats
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Oct 2020
Posts: 254
Default A proposal

On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 8:38:33 AM UTC-4, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 4/22/21 2:33 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:58:51 -0700 (PDT), True North
wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 20:53:04 UTC-3, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 11:09:22 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem
to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very
useful.

I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

It very well could be.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in
searching
the law enforcement's data base for warrants.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now.

That was not the point of my "proposal".

I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because
they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt
because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding
warrant.

If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine,
arrest the person.

If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or
inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be
guilty of and receive a ticket.

I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common
sense. But the ability of the police to arrest
you for something else in your record that had nothing
to do with the reason for stopping the person in the
first place, will result in these
shootings and killings to continue.

Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony.
Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony.
Failure to pay child support is not a death
penalty crime.

If someone is guilty of the above, they should be
located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding
warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems
too often escalates into a shooting.

I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a
screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just
trying to think of ways to keep people alive.




Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring,
and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they
operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently,
and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the
public or the police is obvious and imminent.

George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding
him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely.
Period.
George Floyd could have said he gives up and he will get in the car at
any time. It would have ended then. He chose to continue to resist and
refused to get in the car.


Appears the jury didn't agree with you.


The question of whether Floyd was still resisting getting in the car
never came up. It really didn't matter tho because there was so much
pressure on that jury to convict, the outcome was predetermined. That
is why I expect the appeal to succeed.
That will be a year or two away and everyone will have forgotten about
the late lamented Mr Floyd and nobody will notice what happens to
Chauvin.

Apparently you have not watched the nine minute video of Chauvin
crushing the life out of Floyd, who was handcuffed on the pavement.


We and the jury didn't get to see the extended period of time Floyd violently resisted arrest
(fighting off 2 cops) or details about how hopped up on drugs he was. The only independent
person who actually medically examined his body said he did not die of asphyxiation.

The trial was rigged. Chauvin will end up walking on appeal with time served. Maxine helped him.
  #60   Report Post  
posted to rec.boats
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,981
Default A proposal

Wrote in message:r
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:08:42 -0000 (UTC), wrote:Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 9:10 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. So the fix for stopping arrests of wanted criminals is to just not engage them, and let them go so things don't get violent? If the person has a history of violence, you don't think the officer should know about that when making a legal stop? When you hire someone you do a background check so you know who you are bringing into your company everyday. But police officers should have their hands tied and not know who they are dealing with? They are doing a very valuable and dangerous job, but their moral is at an all-time low and are leaving their jobs at record rates, at least according to some articles I've read lately. I just can't get behind your proposal that puts them at real risk. I have an idea. If the person being stopped could act properly and treat the officer with the respect they deserve, then there will be no issue and everyone will go on about their day. However, if the person being stopped has an outstanding warrant for their arrest, I'd like for the police to get them off the street ASAP to insure the public's safety and security. If the lawbreaker gets their feelings hurt in the process, well too damn bad. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The issue is racial profiling and stopping people for a minor traffic infraction just to see if they happen to be wanted for something else. My proposal isn't popular for sure but what else can be done? We have all been stopped for minor offense, like no brake lights, brokentail light, failure to,signal, etc. They always run the license platefirst, to see if the car is known from a crime to be stolen or dangerous. Same with the drivers license. Is it legal, suspended, etc. So, you arejust going to have a cop walk to a car without knowing anything about whatthey are stopping? Maybe, if black lives mattered, the black communitywould make,sure the kids finished school, and did not shoot each other withso much frequency. How can Chuvin bee guilty of murder when trying torestrain a violent person, but the Federal Government says there is noevidence of a crime if a Federal officer shoots a unarmed fat white lady?I was stopped for speding a couple weeks ago and the cop knew allabout me before he got out of his car. I handed him my license and started to get my insurance card andregistration when he just said "Are you still with USAA Mr Fretwell"?Then he asked me if I had a firearm. My CCW popped on his computertoo.I was polite, called him sir, in spite of being twice his age and gotaway with a warning for 23 over ;-)I am sure if I tried, I could have been shot.


Lucky You; or should I say smart you.:-)
--
Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet?


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