5 days ago Chuck proposed we make some reasonable changes in rec.boats.

I have found a kinder and gentler rec.boats to be a vast improvement from
where we were. If we are going to attract more regulars to discuss boating
issues, we need to make sure we don't chase them away after one visit.
Chuck's proposal is a start in the right direction.

I would like to propose we extend the challenge for the next 30 days.

As Chuck said:

During this period of time, I propose that the group of worst
offenders, self included, take the lead in this challenge by doing the
following things.

1. Refrain from launching any sort of political or religious thread.
2. Resist name calling and put personal feuds aside.
3. Resist the temptation to respond to any political threads trolled
through the NG
4. Launch a minimum of two boating-related threads (not required of
non-boaters)

Why do we have to keep proposing a deadline at all?

Let's just keep it going the way it is now.


"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
...
5 days ago Chuck proposed we make some reasonable changes in rec.boats.

I have found a kinder and gentler rec.boats to be a vast improvement from
where we were. If we are going to attract more regulars to discuss
boating issues, we need to make sure we don't chase them away after one
visit. Chuck's proposal is a start in the right direction.

I would like to propose we extend the challenge for the next 30 days.

As Chuck said:

During this period of time, I propose that the group of worst
offenders, self included, take the lead in this challenge by doing the
following things.

1. Refrain from launching any sort of political or religious thread.
2. Resist name calling and put personal feuds aside.
3. Resist the temptation to respond to any political threads trolled
through the NG
4. Launch a minimum of two boating-related threads (not required of
non-boaters)

JimH,
that is a very reasonable proposal.


" JimH" wrote in message
...
Why do we have to keep proposing a deadline at all?

Let's just keep it going the way it is now.


"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
...
5 days ago Chuck proposed we make some reasonable changes in rec.boats.

I have found a kinder and gentler rec.boats to be a vast improvement from
where we were. If we are going to attract more regulars to discuss
boating issues, we need to make sure we don't chase them away after one
visit. Chuck's proposal is a start in the right direction.

I would like to propose we extend the challenge for the next 30 days.

As Chuck said:

During this period of time, I propose that the group of worst
offenders, self included, take the lead in this challenge by doing the
following things.

1. Refrain from launching any sort of political or religious thread.
2. Resist name calling and put personal feuds aside.
3. Resist the temptation to respond to any political threads trolled
through the NG
4. Launch a minimum of two boating-related threads (not required of
non-boaters)

I sorta agree. The reason why I started posting political stuff here
is cuz others would not refrain from it, a lame excuse I know.
Furthermore, political sites are so overcrowded that ones ideas get
lost. I'll go along with this embargo of politics.

JimH wrote:
Why do we have to keep proposing a deadline at all?

Let's just keep it going the way it is now.


"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
...
5 days ago Chuck proposed we make some reasonable changes in rec.boats.

I have found a kinder and gentler rec.boats to be a vast improvement from
where we were. If we are going to attract more regulars to discuss
boating issues, we need to make sure we don't chase them away after one
visit. Chuck's proposal is a start in the right direction.

I would like to propose we extend the challenge for the next 30 days.

As Chuck said:

During this period of time, I propose that the group of worst
offenders, self included, take the lead in this challenge by doing the
following things.

1. Refrain from launching any sort of political or religious thread.
2. Resist name calling and put personal feuds aside.
3. Resist the temptation to respond to any political threads trolled
through the NG
4. Launch a minimum of two boating-related threads (not required of
non-boaters)



The 5-day program is and or was important. Changing behavior (which is
what is involved here- changing the behavior of a group we all belong
to) is tough enough, and when one adds "change behavior forever....."
to the equation the task seems so daunting that it is relegated to the
status of "impossible dream". The 5-day task provides a little bite.

Of course, if we can keep the peace for one day we can keep it for two.
If for two, we can keep it for four, and if for four why not a week? If
for a week, then for a fortnight. If for a fortnight, perhaps a month,
a season, a year....................

Certainly the worst traditional offenders *have* taken the lead in
reducing the amount of political garbage and flame throwing here. As a
group, the worst traditional offenders (self included) can be slightly
gratified by the improvement. An unforseen result is that a group of
previously consistent but (relatively) low-level rabble rousers are now
as obvious as $20 hookers at a high school prom. This too may pass if
we can continue avoiding the temptation to respond to threads with
titles along the lines of, "George Bush is Adolph Hitler", "Liberals
are Satan", and try to stay on topic.

There are thousands of places to discuss the evils of the Republican
party, Democratic debauchery, the shame of American Imperialism, and
our glorious struggle to defend America in Iraq. Rec.boats doesn't have
to be one of them.

Skipper suggested we need a moderator. Nah, all we really need is some
self control- and a group effort to exercise some during the last
several days has made a startling improvement in the tone and content
of this group.

The trick will be to keep it up going forward.

Statistically, the tough benchmarks are the 21st and 28th days. If
we're still relatively civil, respectful, and on-topic the 3rd week of
January there's a good chance the fix will stick.
We should all continue to do our parts. It only takes a few adults to
break the cycle- and it only takes a few to put us back in the toilet.

We still need more boating content, but I have noticed a few new names
with some boating related questions the last few days. Maybe we're not
scaring away potential
participants as badly as we were.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I sorta agree. The reason why I started posting political stuff here
is cuz others would not refrain from it, a lame excuse I know.
Furthermore, political sites are so overcrowded that ones ideas get
lost. I'll go along with this embargo of politics.


At least here, the audience is somewhat finite. If the discussions didn't
descend into obnoxious bull****, some were actually interesting. Look at
some of the longer ones, and if you can, imagine what they would've been
like if 80% of the messages didn't involve some ****** complaining about a
boat that Harry may or may not have owned. Or, Scupper dropping anti-semitic
remarks.

See comments below

wrote in message
oups.com...
The 5-day program is and or was important. Changing behavior (which is
what is involved here- changing the behavior of a group we all belong
to) is tough enough, and when one adds "change behavior forever....."
to the equation the task seems so daunting that it is relegated to the
status of "impossible dream". The 5-day task provides a little bite.

It is the reason why AA says "Just take it one day at a time". Rec.boats
was out of control, and I was as guilty as anyone.

Of course, if we can keep the peace for one day we can keep it for two.
If for two, we can keep it for four, and if for four why not a week? If
for a week, then for a fortnight. If for a fortnight, perhaps a month,
a season, a year....................

I want to turn it into a "Movement" (from Arlo Guther's song)



Certainly the worst traditional offenders *have* taken the lead in
reducing the amount of political garbage and flame throwing here. As a
group, the worst traditional offenders (self included) can be slightly
gratified by the improvement. An unforseen result is that a group of
previously consistent but (relatively) low-level rabble rousers are now
as obvious as $20 hookers at a high school prom. This too may pass if
we can continue avoiding the temptation to respond to threads with
titles along the lines of, "George Bush is Adolph Hitler", "Liberals
are Satan", and try to stay on topic.

There are thousands of places to discuss the evils of the Republican
party, Democratic debauchery, the shame of American Imperialism, and
our glorious struggle to defend America in Iraq. Rec.boats doesn't have
to be one of them.

Skipper suggested we need a moderator. Nah, all we really need is some
self control- and a group effort to exercise some during the last
several days has made a startling improvement in the tone and content
of this group.

The trick will be to keep it up going forward.

Statistically, the tough benchmarks are the 21st and 28th days. If
we're still relatively civil, respectful, and on-topic the 3rd week of
January there's a good chance the fix will stick.
We should all continue to do our parts. It only takes a few adults to
break the cycle- and it only takes a few to put us back in the toilet.

We still need more boating content, but I have noticed a few new names
with some boating related questions the last few days. Maybe we're not
scaring away potential
participants as badly as we were.

In my opinion, this is the reason why OT Political Threads are so
detrimental to rec.boats. It chases away any and all new participants from
rec.boats. Then we are left with 10 old farts, who are posting very few
boating related threads.

Harry Krause wrote:
Doug Kanter wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
I sorta agree. The reason why I started posting political stuff here
is cuz others would not refrain from it, a lame excuse I know.
Furthermore, political sites are so overcrowded that ones ideas get
lost. I'll go along with this embargo of politics.


At least here, the audience is somewhat finite. If the discussions didn't
descend into obnoxious bull****, some were actually interesting. Look at
some of the longer ones, and if you can, imagine what they would've been
like if 80% of the messages didn't involve some ****** complaining about a
boat that Harry may or may not have owned. Or, Scupper dropping anti-semitic
remarks.




Frankly. I find this place vapid now. I don't miss the strife, but
without real discussions about issues, what's the point of having a
discussion group? I mean, how many times do *you* want to discuss
battery chargers?

It's certainly possible to have discussions without the pig-piling and
personal insults. I don't see why anyone here should take it personally
if I refer to a certain national political figure as a lying,
intellectually lazy, worthless piece of crap, or I think that huge,
heavy sports cars are a contradiction in terms.


Harry, the theme of the group is supposed to be the discussion of
things related to boating. If you find the discusssions "vapid", then
perhaps you might consider either contributing some boating related
content or spending more time on one of the thousands of political feud
and flaming groups that proliferate on the internet. The fact that the
majority of people on rec.boats are voluntarily refraining from posting
inflammatory crap
means that the majority of people would prefer not to see it here. If
you're looking for
a daily political brawl, there are plenty of them elsewhere to choose
from.

Describing a "certain national political figure" as you just did is one
reasonably certain way to restart the name calling and the pig piling.
Give it a rest, please. This group doesn't exist solely for the
personal entertainment of 2 or 3 people, and none of us should treat it
as if it does.

Harry,
Here are some lively newsgroups you may want to check out:
http://www.politicalnewsgroups.com/



"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
I sorta agree. The reason why I started posting political stuff here
is cuz others would not refrain from it, a lame excuse I know.
Furthermore, political sites are so overcrowded that ones ideas get
lost. I'll go along with this embargo of politics.


At least here, the audience is somewhat finite. If the discussions didn't
descend into obnoxious bull****, some were actually interesting. Look at
some of the longer ones, and if you can, imagine what they would've been
like if 80% of the messages didn't involve some ****** complaining about
a boat that Harry may or may not have owned. Or, Scupper dropping
anti-semitic remarks.


Frankly. I find this place vapid now. I don't miss the strife, but without
real discussions about issues, what's the point of having a discussion
group? I mean, how many times do *you* want to discuss battery chargers?

It's certainly possible to have discussions without the pig-piling and
personal insults. I don't see why anyone here should take it personally if
I refer to a certain national political figure as a lying, intellectually
lazy, worthless piece of crap, or I think that huge, heavy sports cars are
a contradiction in terms.

"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
news
See comments below

wrote in message
oups.com...
The 5-day program is and or was important. Changing behavior (which is
what is involved here- changing the behavior of a group we all belong
to) is tough enough, and when one adds "change behavior forever....."
to the equation the task seems so daunting that it is relegated to the
status of "impossible dream". The 5-day task provides a little bite.

It is the reason why AA says "Just take it one day at a time".
Rec.boats
was out of control, and I was as guilty as anyone.

Of course, if we can keep the peace for one day we can keep it for two.
If for two, we can keep it for four, and if for four why not a week? If
for a week, then for a fortnight. If for a fortnight, perhaps a month,
a season, a year....................

I want to turn it into a "Movement" (from Arlo Guther's song)



Certainly the worst traditional offenders *have* taken the lead in
reducing the amount of political garbage and flame throwing here. As a
group, the worst traditional offenders (self included) can be slightly
gratified by the improvement. An unforseen result is that a group of
previously consistent but (relatively) low-level rabble rousers are now
as obvious as $20 hookers at a high school prom. This too may pass if
we can continue avoiding the temptation to respond to threads with
titles along the lines of, "George Bush is Adolph Hitler", "Liberals
are Satan", and try to stay on topic.

There are thousands of places to discuss the evils of the Republican
party, Democratic debauchery, the shame of American Imperialism, and
our glorious struggle to defend America in Iraq. Rec.boats doesn't have
to be one of them.

Skipper suggested we need a moderator. Nah, all we really need is some
self control- and a group effort to exercise some during the last
several days has made a startling improvement in the tone and content
of this group.

The trick will be to keep it up going forward.

Statistically, the tough benchmarks are the 21st and 28th days. If
we're still relatively civil, respectful, and on-topic the 3rd week of
January there's a good chance the fix will stick.
We should all continue to do our parts. It only takes a few adults to
break the cycle- and it only takes a few to put us back in the toilet.

We still need more boating content, but I have noticed a few new names
with some boating related questions the last few days. Maybe we're not
scaring away potential
participants as badly as we were.

In my opinion, this is the reason why OT Political Threads are so
detrimental to rec.boats. It chases away any and all new participants
from
rec.boats. Then we are left with 10 old farts, who are posting very few
boating related threads.

Unfortunately, it seems to be a trend in a several other NGs to go
political as well