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  #41   Report Post  
Old March 25th 20, 06:03 PM posted to rec.boats
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,337
Default How do we compare?

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/25/2020 12:55 PM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/25/2020 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 08:34:31 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 23:06:44 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 15:02:07 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 3/24/20 2:47 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 08:35:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/24/2020 7:49 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 01:13:09 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 13:43:13 -0400, Adorable Deplorable
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 12:41:49 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 07:39:21 -0400, Adorable Deplorable
wrote:

The site below lists by country the number of cases per million population.
Comparing us, at 106/1M, to some of those countries with the 'superb'
medical
systems make ours look pretty good. Trump did the right thing, and seems to
be
continuing.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...IIsE#countries

Country Cases/1M Pop

USA 106
Sweden 191
Denmark 250
France 252
Switzerland 951
Netherlands 245
Germany 313

They did have a head start and they do have a higher population
density. New York will be a good test of the population density thing.
Those people in Manhattan have less than 400 square feet each to live
their whole lives. (based on pop density) My garage is bigger than
that.

I think Luddite shot some of that out of the water. We have just as high a
density in our population centers as those countries do.

Not if you take the US as a whole ... by a long shot. I agree the
density of Europe is like the I95 or I5 corridor but as soon as you
turn inward the density falls off fast. Even so except for Norway
Finland and Denmark most of europe is dark orange or red on this map
https://www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/512popdn.pdf

You are a math whiz. A Sq/mi is ~2.6 sq/km
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_a...pean_countries

I said 'in our population centers'! Jeees.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



This thread has become confused. The comment I made earlier had
nothing to do with population density. It had to do with
one of Harry's assertions that the corvid-19 virus established
itself in countries in Europe *before* it was first confirmed
in the USA. He was trying to make the case that *that* is the
reason for their higher death rate per million population.

I presented dates of the first confirmed cases for several
countries including those that Harry routinely
likes to compare their superior health care systems to
that of the USA.

Bottom line ... the Corvid-19 virus was confirmed in the
USA weeks or in one case at least a month before it
was confirmed in his favorite countries in Europe.

Unfortunately the first cases in Washington State were in a nursing
home where the death rate was staggering but not unusual for a nursing
home. Those people don't expect to come out of there alive in the
first place.


Seeing the charts where most of the cases are in the elderly, does not seem
correct. I think the disease should be more evenly distributed.
Therefore there has to be a lot of undiagnosed cases. They will be mild,
so the younger are thinking it is something else and not getting checked.



You are correct...there are lots of undiagnosed cases.



And how do you know this? Now a medical expert?


I was agreeing with you. For the most part, access to the tests has been
restricted to relatively few of those with the severest symptoms and
hardly at all to those with mild symptoms. Ergo, there are a lot of
undiagnosed cases.

I still am not sure what the value of the test is if you are not
getting tested at least once a week and then what. You could get
infected coming home from the test. Fauci says we should all act like
we know we have it.

It's a shame the liberals can't, or won't, understand that. Every day we're told
in the briefings that only those with symptoms should be tested. Yet they keep
whining that there are not enough test kits for the whole population.

It's an 'anti-Trump' thing.

I am not even sure what that testing accomplishes other than just
maintaining the stats. Fauci says anyone with symptoms should just
assume they have it and act accordingly. Even in the hospital, the
treatment is just controlling the symptoms for the most part. At a
certain point the test we will need is for the antibodies to see if
you actually had it, once this thing has infected a certain percentage
of the population, to see who is left at risk.
It will be similar to chicken pox or one of those other diseases that
is controlled but there are still people who need to be careful
because they never had it.



There is no evidence yet that having been infected with this virus
means you are immune to it in the future.




There are precedents. With SARS, MERS and some Monkey testing.



A coronavirus is of the same general family that causes the
common cold. This novel covid-19 version is of the same family.

You don't become immune to getting a cold just because you've
had one in the past.


We do get immunity to colds from my earlier research. Problem is most
colds are a Rhinovirus are 150 versions. So each cold gives immunity to
that virus, but still a bunch. One of the reasons older people get less
colds. Until lately, never heard of Coronavirus caused colds. But seems
as if we only have 19 versions of Coronavirus.


  #42   Report Post  
Old March 25th 20, 06:39 PM posted to rec.boats
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,337
Default How do we compare?

On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 18:03:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/25/2020 12:55 PM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/25/2020 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 08:34:31 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 23:06:44 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 15:02:07 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 3/24/20 2:47 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 08:35:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/24/2020 7:49 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 01:13:09 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 13:43:13 -0400, Adorable Deplorable
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 12:41:49 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 07:39:21 -0400, Adorable Deplorable
wrote:

The site below lists by country the number of cases per million population.
Comparing us, at 106/1M, to some of those countries with the 'superb'
medical
systems make ours look pretty good. Trump did the right thing, and seems to
be
continuing.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...IIsE#countries

Country Cases/1M Pop

USA 106
Sweden 191
Denmark 250
France 252
Switzerland 951
Netherlands 245
Germany 313

They did have a head start and they do have a higher population
density. New York will be a good test of the population density thing.
Those people in Manhattan have less than 400 square feet each to live
their whole lives. (based on pop density) My garage is bigger than
that.

I think Luddite shot some of that out of the water. We have just as high a
density in our population centers as those countries do.

Not if you take the US as a whole ... by a long shot. I agree the
density of Europe is like the I95 or I5 corridor but as soon as you
turn inward the density falls off fast. Even so except for Norway
Finland and Denmark most of europe is dark orange or red on this map
https://www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/512popdn.pdf

You are a math whiz. A Sq/mi is ~2.6 sq/km
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_a...pean_countries

I said 'in our population centers'! Jeees.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



This thread has become confused. The comment I made earlier had
nothing to do with population density. It had to do with
one of Harry's assertions that the corvid-19 virus established
itself in countries in Europe *before* it was first confirmed
in the USA. He was trying to make the case that *that* is the
reason for their higher death rate per million population.

I presented dates of the first confirmed cases for several
countries including those that Harry routinely
likes to compare their superior health care systems to
that of the USA.

Bottom line ... the Corvid-19 virus was confirmed in the
USA weeks or in one case at least a month before it
was confirmed in his favorite countries in Europe.

Unfortunately the first cases in Washington State were in a nursing
home where the death rate was staggering but not unusual for a nursing
home. Those people don't expect to come out of there alive in the
first place.


Seeing the charts where most of the cases are in the elderly, does not seem
correct. I think the disease should be more evenly distributed.
Therefore there has to be a lot of undiagnosed cases. They will be mild,
so the younger are thinking it is something else and not getting checked.



You are correct...there are lots of undiagnosed cases.



And how do you know this? Now a medical expert?


I was agreeing with you. For the most part, access to the tests has been
restricted to relatively few of those with the severest symptoms and
hardly at all to those with mild symptoms. Ergo, there are a lot of
undiagnosed cases.

I still am not sure what the value of the test is if you are not
getting tested at least once a week and then what. You could get
infected coming home from the test. Fauci says we should all act like
we know we have it.

It's a shame the liberals can't, or won't, understand that. Every day we're told
in the briefings that only those with symptoms should be tested. Yet they keep
whining that there are not enough test kits for the whole population.

It's an 'anti-Trump' thing.

I am not even sure what that testing accomplishes other than just
maintaining the stats. Fauci says anyone with symptoms should just
assume they have it and act accordingly. Even in the hospital, the
treatment is just controlling the symptoms for the most part. At a
certain point the test we will need is for the antibodies to see if
you actually had it, once this thing has infected a certain percentage
of the population, to see who is left at risk.
It will be similar to chicken pox or one of those other diseases that
is controlled but there are still people who need to be careful
because they never had it.



There is no evidence yet that having been infected with this virus
means you are immune to it in the future.




There are precedents. With SARS, MERS and some Monkey testing.



A coronavirus is of the same general family that causes the
common cold. This novel covid-19 version is of the same family.

You don't become immune to getting a cold just because you've
had one in the past.


We do get immunity to colds from my earlier research. Problem is most
colds are a Rhinovirus are 150 versions. So each cold gives immunity to
that virus, but still a bunch. One of the reasons older people get less
colds. Until lately, never heard of Coronavirus caused colds. But seems
as if we only have 19 versions of Coronavirus.


===

Yes, 150 variations of the common cold virus. That's the current
thinking.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

  #43   Report Post  
Old March 25th 20, 06:43 PM posted to rec.boats
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,663
Default How do we compare?

On 3/25/2020 2:03 PM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/25/2020 12:55 PM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/25/2020 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 08:34:31 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 23:06:44 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 15:02:07 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 3/24/20 2:47 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 08:35:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/24/2020 7:49 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 01:13:09 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 13:43:13 -0400, Adorable Deplorable
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 12:41:49 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 07:39:21 -0400, Adorable Deplorable
wrote:

The site below lists by country the number of cases per million population.
Comparing us, at 106/1M, to some of those countries with the 'superb'
medical
systems make ours look pretty good. Trump did the right thing, and seems to
be
continuing.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...IIsE#countries

Country Cases/1M Pop

USA 106
Sweden 191
Denmark 250
France 252
Switzerland 951
Netherlands 245
Germany 313

They did have a head start and they do have a higher population
density. New York will be a good test of the population density thing.
Those people in Manhattan have less than 400 square feet each to live
their whole lives. (based on pop density) My garage is bigger than
that.

I think Luddite shot some of that out of the water. We have just as high a
density in our population centers as those countries do.

Not if you take the US as a whole ... by a long shot. I agree the
density of Europe is like the I95 or I5 corridor but as soon as you
turn inward the density falls off fast. Even so except for Norway
Finland and Denmark most of europe is dark orange or red on this map
https://www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/512popdn.pdf

You are a math whiz. A Sq/mi is ~2.6 sq/km
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_a...pean_countries

I said 'in our population centers'! Jeees.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



This thread has become confused. The comment I made earlier had
nothing to do with population density. It had to do with
one of Harry's assertions that the corvid-19 virus established
itself in countries in Europe *before* it was first confirmed
in the USA. He was trying to make the case that *that* is the
reason for their higher death rate per million population.

I presented dates of the first confirmed cases for several
countries including those that Harry routinely
likes to compare their superior health care systems to
that of the USA.

Bottom line ... the Corvid-19 virus was confirmed in the
USA weeks or in one case at least a month before it
was confirmed in his favorite countries in Europe.

Unfortunately the first cases in Washington State were in a nursing
home where the death rate was staggering but not unusual for a nursing
home. Those people don't expect to come out of there alive in the
first place.


Seeing the charts where most of the cases are in the elderly, does not seem
correct. I think the disease should be more evenly distributed.
Therefore there has to be a lot of undiagnosed cases. They will be mild,
so the younger are thinking it is something else and not getting checked.



You are correct...there are lots of undiagnosed cases.



And how do you know this? Now a medical expert?


I was agreeing with you. For the most part, access to the tests has been
restricted to relatively few of those with the severest symptoms and
hardly at all to those with mild symptoms. Ergo, there are a lot of
undiagnosed cases.

I still am not sure what the value of the test is if you are not
getting tested at least once a week and then what. You could get
infected coming home from the test. Fauci says we should all act like
we know we have it.

It's a shame the liberals can't, or won't, understand that. Every day we're told
in the briefings that only those with symptoms should be tested. Yet they keep
whining that there are not enough test kits for the whole population.

It's an 'anti-Trump' thing.

I am not even sure what that testing accomplishes other than just
maintaining the stats. Fauci says anyone with symptoms should just
assume they have it and act accordingly. Even in the hospital, the
treatment is just controlling the symptoms for the most part. At a
certain point the test we will need is for the antibodies to see if
you actually had it, once this thing has infected a certain percentage
of the population, to see who is left at risk.
It will be similar to chicken pox or one of those other diseases that
is controlled but there are still people who need to be careful
because they never had it.



There is no evidence yet that having been infected with this virus
means you are immune to it in the future.




There are precedents. With SARS, MERS and some Monkey testing.



A coronavirus is of the same general family that causes the
common cold. This novel covid-19 version is of the same family.

You don't become immune to getting a cold just because you've
had one in the past.


We do get immunity to colds from my earlier research. Problem is most
colds are a Rhinovirus are 150 versions. So each cold gives immunity to
that virus, but still a bunch. One of the reasons older people get less
colds. Until lately, never heard of Coronavirus caused colds. But seems
as if we only have 19 versions of Coronavirus.



Didn't mean to mislead. I did not infer that the covid-19 virus
causes the common cold. My understanding is that the term "coronavirus"
applies to a number of virus types that include those that cause the
common cold.

The covid-19 is of the same general family but is a novel virus meaning
it's never been seen before. It's affects are being studied and learned.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

  #45   Report Post  
Old March 25th 20, 10:04 PM posted to rec.boats
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jul 2007
Posts: 34,150
Default How do we compare?

On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 09:52:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/25/2020 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 08:34:31 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 23:06:44 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 15:02:07 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 3/24/20 2:47 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 08:35:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/24/2020 7:49 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 01:13:09 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 13:43:13 -0400, Adorable Deplorable
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 12:41:49 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 07:39:21 -0400, Adorable Deplorable
wrote:

The site below lists by country the number of cases per million population.
Comparing us, at 106/1M, to some of those countries with the 'superb' medical
systems make ours look pretty good. Trump did the right thing, and seems to be
continuing.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...IIsE#countries

Country Cases/1M Pop

USA 106
Sweden 191
Denmark 250
France 252
Switzerland 951
Netherlands 245
Germany 313

They did have a head start and they do have a higher population
density. New York will be a good test of the population density thing.
Those people in Manhattan have less than 400 square feet each to live
their whole lives. (based on pop density) My garage is bigger than
that.

I think Luddite shot some of that out of the water. We have just as high a
density in our population centers as those countries do.

Not if you take the US as a whole ... by a long shot. I agree the
density of Europe is like the I95 or I5 corridor but as soon as you
turn inward the density falls off fast. Even so except for Norway
Finland and Denmark most of europe is dark orange or red on this map
https://www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/512popdn.pdf

You are a math whiz. A Sq/mi is ~2.6 sq/km
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_a...pean_countries

I said 'in our population centers'! Jeees.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



This thread has become confused. The comment I made earlier had
nothing to do with population density. It had to do with
one of Harry's assertions that the corvid-19 virus established
itself in countries in Europe *before* it was first confirmed
in the USA. He was trying to make the case that *that* is the
reason for their higher death rate per million population.

I presented dates of the first confirmed cases for several
countries including those that Harry routinely
likes to compare their superior health care systems to
that of the USA.

Bottom line ... the Corvid-19 virus was confirmed in the
USA weeks or in one case at least a month before it
was confirmed in his favorite countries in Europe.

Unfortunately the first cases in Washington State were in a nursing
home where the death rate was staggering but not unusual for a nursing
home. Those people don't expect to come out of there alive in the
first place.


Seeing the charts where most of the cases are in the elderly, does not seem
correct. I think the disease should be more evenly distributed.
Therefore there has to be a lot of undiagnosed cases. They will be mild,
so the younger are thinking it is something else and not getting checked.



You are correct...there are lots of undiagnosed cases.



And how do you know this? Now a medical expert?


I was agreeing with you. For the most part, access to the tests has been
restricted to relatively few of those with the severest symptoms and
hardly at all to those with mild symptoms. Ergo, there are a lot of
undiagnosed cases.

I still am not sure what the value of the test is if you are not
getting tested at least once a week and then what. You could get
infected coming home from the test. Fauci says we should all act like
we know we have it.

It's a shame the liberals can't, or won't, understand that. Every day we're told
in the briefings that only those with symptoms should be tested. Yet they keep
whining that there are not enough test kits for the whole population.

It's an 'anti-Trump' thing.


I am not even sure what that testing accomplishes other than just
maintaining the stats. Fauci says anyone with symptoms should just
assume they have it and act accordingly. Even in the hospital, the
treatment is just controlling the symptoms for the most part. At a
certain point the test we will need is for the antibodies to see if
you actually had it, once this thing has infected a certain percentage
of the population, to see who is left at risk.
It will be similar to chicken pox or one of those other diseases that
is controlled but there are still people who need to be careful
because they never had it.



There is no evidence yet that having been infected with this virus
means you are immune to it in the future.


I suppose we could argue about the theory of immunology but I defer to
the government doctors who assume the blood of a survivor would put
antibodies in a victim but they might be wrong. We will know pretty
soon because they are doing it

BTW this was the first use of vaccines long before they knew about
germs at all.


  #46   Report Post  
Old March 26th 20, 12:23 AM posted to rec.boats
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,663
Default How do we compare?

On 3/25/2020 6:04 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 09:52:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/25/2020 9:10 AM,
wrote:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 08:34:31 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 23:06:44 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 15:02:07 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 3/24/20 2:47 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 08:35:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/24/2020 7:49 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 01:13:09 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 13:43:13 -0400, Adorable Deplorable
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 12:41:49 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 07:39:21 -0400, Adorable Deplorable
wrote:

The site below lists by country the number of cases per million population.
Comparing us, at 106/1M, to some of those countries with the 'superb' medical
systems make ours look pretty good. Trump did the right thing, and seems to be
continuing.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...IIsE#countries

Country Cases/1M Pop

USA 106
Sweden 191
Denmark 250
France 252
Switzerland 951
Netherlands 245
Germany 313

They did have a head start and they do have a higher population
density. New York will be a good test of the population density thing.
Those people in Manhattan have less than 400 square feet each to live
their whole lives. (based on pop density) My garage is bigger than
that.

I think Luddite shot some of that out of the water. We have just as high a
density in our population centers as those countries do.

Not if you take the US as a whole ... by a long shot. I agree the
density of Europe is like the I95 or I5 corridor but as soon as you
turn inward the density falls off fast. Even so except for Norway
Finland and Denmark most of europe is dark orange or red on this map
https://www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/512popdn.pdf

You are a math whiz. A Sq/mi is ~2.6 sq/km
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_a...pean_countries

I said 'in our population centers'! Jeees.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



This thread has become confused. The comment I made earlier had
nothing to do with population density. It had to do with
one of Harry's assertions that the corvid-19 virus established
itself in countries in Europe *before* it was first confirmed
in the USA. He was trying to make the case that *that* is the
reason for their higher death rate per million population.

I presented dates of the first confirmed cases for several
countries including those that Harry routinely
likes to compare their superior health care systems to
that of the USA.

Bottom line ... the Corvid-19 virus was confirmed in the
USA weeks or in one case at least a month before it
was confirmed in his favorite countries in Europe.

Unfortunately the first cases in Washington State were in a nursing
home where the death rate was staggering but not unusual for a nursing
home. Those people don't expect to come out of there alive in the
first place.


Seeing the charts where most of the cases are in the elderly, does not seem
correct. I think the disease should be more evenly distributed.
Therefore there has to be a lot of undiagnosed cases. They will be mild,
so the younger are thinking it is something else and not getting checked.



You are correct...there are lots of undiagnosed cases.



And how do you know this? Now a medical expert?


I was agreeing with you. For the most part, access to the tests has been
restricted to relatively few of those with the severest symptoms and
hardly at all to those with mild symptoms. Ergo, there are a lot of
undiagnosed cases.

I still am not sure what the value of the test is if you are not
getting tested at least once a week and then what. You could get
infected coming home from the test. Fauci says we should all act like
we know we have it.

It's a shame the liberals can't, or won't, understand that. Every day we're told
in the briefings that only those with symptoms should be tested. Yet they keep
whining that there are not enough test kits for the whole population.

It's an 'anti-Trump' thing.

I am not even sure what that testing accomplishes other than just
maintaining the stats. Fauci says anyone with symptoms should just
assume they have it and act accordingly. Even in the hospital, the
treatment is just controlling the symptoms for the most part. At a
certain point the test we will need is for the antibodies to see if
you actually had it, once this thing has infected a certain percentage
of the population, to see who is left at risk.
It will be similar to chicken pox or one of those other diseases that
is controlled but there are still people who need to be careful
because they never had it.



There is no evidence yet that having been infected with this virus
means you are immune to it in the future.


I suppose we could argue about the theory of immunology but I defer to
the government doctors who assume the blood of a survivor would put
antibodies in a victim but they might be wrong. We will know pretty
soon because they are doing it

BTW this was the first use of vaccines long before they knew about
germs at all.



I think the theory is that the antibodies will boost the immune system
and help those who are sick recover.

They also have said the effect is temporary and does not impart
immunity.



--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

  #47   Report Post  
Old March 26th 20, 01:41 AM posted to rec.boats
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jul 2007
Posts: 34,150
Default How do we compare?

On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:26:47 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/25/2020 12:55 PM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/25/2020 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 08:34:31 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 23:06:44 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 15:02:07 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 3/24/20 2:47 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 08:35:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/24/2020 7:49 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 01:13:09 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 13:43:13 -0400, Adorable Deplorable
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 12:41:49 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 07:39:21 -0400, Adorable Deplorable
wrote:

The site below lists by country the number of cases per million population.
Comparing us, at 106/1M, to some of those countries with the 'superb' medical
systems make ours look pretty good. Trump did the right thing, and seems to
be
continuing.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...IIsE#countries

Country Cases/1M Pop

USA 106
Sweden 191
Denmark 250
France 252
Switzerland 951
Netherlands 245
Germany 313

They did have a head start and they do have a higher population
density. New York will be a good test of the population density thing.
Those people in Manhattan have less than 400 square feet each to live
their whole lives. (based on pop density) My garage is bigger than
that.

I think Luddite shot some of that out of the water. We have just as high a
density in our population centers as those countries do.

Not if you take the US as a whole ... by a long shot. I agree the
density of Europe is like the I95 or I5 corridor but as soon as you
turn inward the density falls off fast. Even so except for Norway
Finland and Denmark most of europe is dark orange or red on this map
https://www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/512popdn.pdf

You are a math whiz. A Sq/mi is ~2.6 sq/km
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_a...pean_countries

I said 'in our population centers'! Jeees.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



This thread has become confused. The comment I made earlier had
nothing to do with population density. It had to do with
one of Harry's assertions that the corvid-19 virus established
itself in countries in Europe *before* it was first confirmed
in the USA. He was trying to make the case that *that* is the
reason for their higher death rate per million population.

I presented dates of the first confirmed cases for several
countries including those that Harry routinely
likes to compare their superior health care systems to
that of the USA.

Bottom line ... the Corvid-19 virus was confirmed in the
USA weeks or in one case at least a month before it
was confirmed in his favorite countries in Europe.

Unfortunately the first cases in Washington State were in a nursing
home where the death rate was staggering but not unusual for a nursing
home. Those people don't expect to come out of there alive in the
first place.


Seeing the charts where most of the cases are in the elderly, does not seem
correct. I think the disease should be more evenly distributed.
Therefore there has to be a lot of undiagnosed cases. They will be mild,
so the younger are thinking it is something else and not getting checked.



You are correct...there are lots of undiagnosed cases.



And how do you know this? Now a medical expert?


I was agreeing with you. For the most part, access to the tests has been
restricted to relatively few of those with the severest symptoms and
hardly at all to those with mild symptoms. Ergo, there are a lot of
undiagnosed cases.

I still am not sure what the value of the test is if you are not
getting tested at least once a week and then what. You could get
infected coming home from the test. Fauci says we should all act like
we know we have it.

It's a shame the liberals can't, or won't, understand that. Every day we're told
in the briefings that only those with symptoms should be tested. Yet they keep
whining that there are not enough test kits for the whole population.

It's an 'anti-Trump' thing.

I am not even sure what that testing accomplishes other than just
maintaining the stats. Fauci says anyone with symptoms should just
assume they have it and act accordingly. Even in the hospital, the
treatment is just controlling the symptoms for the most part. At a
certain point the test we will need is for the antibodies to see if
you actually had it, once this thing has infected a certain percentage
of the population, to see who is left at risk.
It will be similar to chicken pox or one of those other diseases that
is controlled but there are still people who need to be careful
because they never had it.



There is no evidence yet that having been infected with this virus
means you are immune to it in the future.




There are precedents. With SARS, MERS and some Monkey testing.



A coronavirus is of the same general family that causes the
common cold. This novel covid-19 version is of the same family.

You don't become immune to getting a cold just because you've
had one in the past.


They will tell you that you are immune to "that" cold but the cold
mutates every year and you may not be immune to the next one. You
might still have helpful antibodies that make it easier to beat. Same
with the flu.

It does make this far scarier than other viruses since we will all be
starting at zero (assuming that is right) and if we are chasing
another moving target, this might just be the new normal. We might be
getting Covid inoculations every year that are only 40-60% effective.
(like the flu shot)
  #48   Report Post  
Old March 26th 20, 04:12 AM posted to rec.boats
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,337
Default How do we compare?

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/25/2020 6:04 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 09:52:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/25/2020 9:10 AM,
wrote:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 08:34:31 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 23:06:44 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 15:02:07 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 3/24/20 2:47 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 08:35:57 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/24/2020 7:49 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 01:13:09 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 13:43:13 -0400, Adorable Deplorable
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 12:41:49 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 07:39:21 -0400, Adorable Deplorable
wrote:

The site below lists by country the number of cases per million population.
Comparing us, at 106/1M, to some of those countries with the 'superb'
medical
systems make ours look pretty good. Trump did the right thing, and seems to
be
continuing.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...IIsE#countries

Country Cases/1M Pop

USA 106
Sweden 191
Denmark 250
France 252
Switzerland 951
Netherlands 245
Germany 313

They did have a head start and they do have a higher population
density. New York will be a good test of the population density thing.
Those people in Manhattan have less than 400 square feet each to live
their whole lives. (based on pop density) My garage is bigger than
that.

I think Luddite shot some of that out of the water. We have just as high a
density in our population centers as those countries do.

Not if you take the US as a whole ... by a long shot. I agree the
density of Europe is like the I95 or I5 corridor but as soon as you
turn inward the density falls off fast. Even so except for Norway
Finland and Denmark most of europe is dark orange or red on this map
https://www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/512popdn.pdf

You are a math whiz. A Sq/mi is ~2.6 sq/km
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_a...pean_countries

I said 'in our population centers'! Jeees.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



This thread has become confused. The comment I made earlier had
nothing to do with population density. It had to do with
one of Harry's assertions that the corvid-19 virus established
itself in countries in Europe *before* it was first confirmed
in the USA. He was trying to make the case that *that* is the
reason for their higher death rate per million population.

I presented dates of the first confirmed cases for several
countries including those that Harry routinely
likes to compare their superior health care systems to
that of the USA.

Bottom line ... the Corvid-19 virus was confirmed in the
USA weeks or in one case at least a month before it
was confirmed in his favorite countries in Europe.

Unfortunately the first cases in Washington State were in a nursing
home where the death rate was staggering but not unusual for a nursing
home. Those people don't expect to come out of there alive in the
first place.


Seeing the charts where most of the cases are in the elderly, does not seem
correct. I think the disease should be more evenly distributed.
Therefore there has to be a lot of undiagnosed cases. They will be mild,
so the younger are thinking it is something else and not getting checked.



You are correct...there are lots of undiagnosed cases.



And how do you know this? Now a medical expert?


I was agreeing with you. For the most part, access to the tests has been
restricted to relatively few of those with the severest symptoms and
hardly at all to those with mild symptoms. Ergo, there are a lot of
undiagnosed cases.

I still am not sure what the value of the test is if you are not
getting tested at least once a week and then what. You could get
infected coming home from the test. Fauci says we should all act like
we know we have it.

It's a shame the liberals can't, or won't, understand that. Every day we're told
in the briefings that only those with symptoms should be tested. Yet they keep
whining that there are not enough test kits for the whole population.

It's an 'anti-Trump' thing.

I am not even sure what that testing accomplishes other than just
maintaining the stats. Fauci says anyone with symptoms should just
assume they have it and act accordingly. Even in the hospital, the
treatment is just controlling the symptoms for the most part. At a
certain point the test we will need is for the antibodies to see if
you actually had it, once this thing has infected a certain percentage
of the population, to see who is left at risk.
It will be similar to chicken pox or one of those other diseases that
is controlled but there are still people who need to be careful
because they never had it.



There is no evidence yet that having been infected with this virus
means you are immune to it in the future.


I suppose we could argue about the theory of immunology but I defer to
the government doctors who assume the blood of a survivor would put
antibodies in a victim but they might be wrong. We will know pretty
soon because they are doing it

BTW this was the first use of vaccines long before they knew about
germs at all.



I think the theory is that the antibodies will boost the immune system
and help those who are sick recover.

They also have said the effect is temporary and does not impart
immunity.




Part of the immunity may be the T-cells learning the virus is an invader.
Been some research on why certain diseases are ignored by the immune
system.



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