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#2
posted to rec.boats
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Gulf Coast...
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 19:49:40 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 17:27:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/10/2018 1:58 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/10/18 1:54 PM, wrote: On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:44:43 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/10/18 12:38 PM, wrote: On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:08:51 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: ...being slammed by a result of global warming, a concept denied by the ignorant, intellectually lazy, coal baron wannabe in the White House. Yeah, we never had hurricanes before 1/20/2017, That *******! No surprise you and your fellow Trumpsters are ignoring what the climate scientists are saying. Perhaps we should be looking at what the economists and political science people are saying. There are 4-5 billion people in the 3d world who all want electricity, heat in the winter, A/C in the summer and a car. No matter what we do, increased energy demand is coming. Global warming is caused by population growth and upward mobility. Do you think either will stop? Of course it might. I worry a lot more about nuclear winter than I do global warming. As you are not a climate scientist and have absolutely no serious scientific credentials in that field or any other scientific field, I'll believe the climate scientists and other scientists. And what the latter are doing includes trying to force us to develop and implement fossil fuel alternatives and to cut back on the use of fossil fuels. You are not a climate scientist either and have absolutely no serious scientific credentials in that field. There are many scientist *with* the proper credentials who argue that climate change is a naturally occurring phenomena and mankind, as important as we may thing we are, has very little to do with it. As non-scientists we all have the right to believe what makes logical sense to us. You just happen to believe anything anybody tells you if it fits with your general political views. === There is clear and convincing evidence that the planet is indeed getting warmer. There is also a great deal of evidence that warm cycles have occurred many times in the past, as well as cold cycles, aka, the ice age. There have been serious scientific attempts, through the study of core samples in ancient ice, to see if past warming and cooling episodes correlated to levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide. Apparently there is some evidence for that also. The jury is still out on what caused these past fluctuations in CO2 but it's fairly certain that it wasn't caused by the burning of fossil fuels. There's a lot that is still unknown, that much is for sure. Reducing our dependence on fossil fuels for energy production seems like a good long term plan for many reasons however. Europe is way ahead of us in harnessing wind power, and we are somewhat behind in exploiting solar energy. But there are some encouraging signs that we're making progress. For anyone who doubts that the planet is getting warmer, I'd encourage them to watch a documentary on Netflix called "Chasing Ice". It is very well done, and watching huge glaciers disappear before your eyes on time lapse photography will make a believer out of you. It is totally apolitical and non-judgemental. The problem for greenhouse gases is not what the 1st world does. It is what the 3d world does and they have about 3/4ths of the world population. If they keep burning rain forests, clearing grasslands for agriculture or development and chasing the 1st world dream by using exponentially more "dirty" energy, it really doesn't matter if we throw a few Hummers into the volcano and put a solar panel on our roof. |
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#3
posted to rec.boats
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Gulf Coast...
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#4
posted to rec.boats
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Gulf Coast...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 20:32:10 -0400, wrote: it really doesn't matter if we throw a few Hummers into the volcano and put a solar panel on our roof. === I agree but it's probably a step in the right direction. If nothing else, it helps change our mindset and nudges technology along in the right direction. Look at what's happening with electric cars. In less than 10 years they have advanced from geek toys to very respectable vehicles that will blow the doors off a 'vette at the drag strip. But do they actually save energy? I drive a 2014 Volt around town. About 2 miles per kilowatt hour. So if I charge in the middle of the night when I get a really time of use rate of $0.123 a KWh. Remember this is California with very high utility rates, $0.423 peak rate KWh. Comes out to a buck a gallon for gas. Nice for me, thank the others for the subsidy. I get about 33 mpg on gas. Lots of non hybrids get 45-50 mpg. Am I really saving natural resources? Like a Tesla that states zero emissions vehicle. How did that electricity get generated to charge the car, plus all the rare earths mined to make the battery? I do have solar on the roof. Still a wash to me if it will pay for itself. California, probably. We have high electric rates and they keep climbing. East coast with 4 moths of snow, may not be financial prudent without subsidized costs. And will it save energy overall? |
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#5
posted to rec.boats
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Gulf Coast...
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 20:49:36 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 20:32:10 -0400, wrote: it really doesn't matter if we throw a few Hummers into the volcano and put a solar panel on our roof. === I agree but it's probably a step in the right direction. If nothing else, it helps change our mindset and nudges technology along in the right direction. Look at what's happening with electric cars. In less than 10 years they have advanced from geek toys to very respectable vehicles that will blow the doors off a 'vette at the drag strip. If you are getting the electricity from a coal fired plant, you haven't gained anything. The gain is even questionable with gas fired plants. For the most part, the economic viability is back loaded on the tax payer in a fairly regressive manner. They have moved from being souped up golf carts for geeks to rich people's toys with the subsidies being paid by people who can't afford one. Solar power is much the same. People rich enough to put $40,000-50,000 on their roof get subsidized by those who aren't. |
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#6
posted to rec.boats
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Gulf Coast...
On 10/10/18 11:30 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 20:49:36 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 20:32:10 -0400, wrote: it really doesn't matter if we throw a few Hummers into the volcano and put a solar panel on our roof. === I agree but it's probably a step in the right direction. If nothing else, it helps change our mindset and nudges technology along in the right direction. Look at what's happening with electric cars. In less than 10 years they have advanced from geek toys to very respectable vehicles that will blow the doors off a 'vette at the drag strip. If you are getting the electricity from a coal fired plant, you haven't gained anything. The gain is even questionable with gas fired plants. For the most part, the economic viability is back loaded on the tax payer in a fairly regressive manner. They have moved from being souped up golf carts for geeks to rich people's toys with the subsidies being paid by people who can't afford one. Solar power is much the same. People rich enough to put $40,000-50,000 on their roof get subsidized by those who aren't. So, let's not do anything. Got it. |
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#7
posted to rec.boats
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Gulf Coast...
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 08:23:43 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote: On 10/10/18 11:30 PM, wrote: On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 20:49:36 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 20:32:10 -0400, wrote: it really doesn't matter if we throw a few Hummers into the volcano and put a solar panel on our roof. === I agree but it's probably a step in the right direction. If nothing else, it helps change our mindset and nudges technology along in the right direction. Look at what's happening with electric cars. In less than 10 years they have advanced from geek toys to very respectable vehicles that will blow the doors off a 'vette at the drag strip. If you are getting the electricity from a coal fired plant, you haven't gained anything. The gain is even questionable with gas fired plants. For the most part, the economic viability is back loaded on the tax payer in a fairly regressive manner. They have moved from being souped up golf carts for geeks to rich people's toys with the subsidies being paid by people who can't afford one. Solar power is much the same. People rich enough to put $40,000-50,000 on their roof get subsidized by those who aren't. So, let's not do anything. Got it. Do you have solar on your roof or drive an electric car? What exactly are you "doing" except trolling on the internet? Bill is doing far more than you and you only give him ridicule. (I also have collectors on my roof) |
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#8
posted to rec.boats
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Gulf Coast...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 17:27:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/10/2018 1:58 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/10/18 1:54 PM, wrote: On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:44:43 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/10/18 12:38 PM, wrote: On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:08:51 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: ...being slammed by a result of global warming, a concept denied by the ignorant, intellectually lazy, coal baron wannabe in the White House. Yeah, we never had hurricanes before 1/20/2017, That *******! No surprise you and your fellow Trumpsters are ignoring what the climate scientists are saying. Perhaps we should be looking at what the economists and political science people are saying. There are 4-5 billion people in the 3d world who all want electricity, heat in the winter, A/C in the summer and a car. No matter what we do, increased energy demand is coming. Global warming is caused by population growth and upward mobility. Do you think either will stop? Of course it might. I worry a lot more about nuclear winter than I do global warming. As you are not a climate scientist and have absolutely no serious scientific credentials in that field or any other scientific field, I'll believe the climate scientists and other scientists. And what the latter are doing includes trying to force us to develop and implement fossil fuel alternatives and to cut back on the use of fossil fuels. You are not a climate scientist either and have absolutely no serious scientific credentials in that field. There are many scientist *with* the proper credentials who argue that climate change is a naturally occurring phenomena and mankind, as important as we may thing we are, has very little to do with it. As non-scientists we all have the right to believe what makes logical sense to us. You just happen to believe anything anybody tells you if it fits with your general political views. === There is clear and convincing evidence that the planet is indeed getting warmer. There is also a great deal of evidence that warm cycles have occurred many times in the past, as well as cold cycles, aka, the ice age. There have been serious scientific attempts, through the study of core samples in ancient ice, to see if past warming and cooling episodes correlated to levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide. Apparently there is some evidence for that also. The jury is still out on what caused these past fluctuations in CO2 but it's fairly certain that it wasn't caused by the burning of fossil fuels. There's a lot that is still unknown, that much is for sure. Reducing our dependence on fossil fuels for energy production seems like a good long term plan for many reasons however. Europe is way ahead of us in harnessing wind power, and we are somewhat behind in exploiting solar energy. But there are some encouraging signs that we're making progress. For anyone who doubts that the planet is getting warmer, I'd encourage them to watch a documentary on Netflix called "Chasing Ice". It is very well done, and watching huge glaciers disappear before your eyes on time lapse photography will make a believer out of you. It is totally apolitical and non-judgemental. 10,000 years ago, Yosemite valley was a mile deep in ice. Been somewhat warming since then. Interesting when we were in Waterton Park, the guide on the cruise boat told us the glaciers in both Waterton and Glacier National Park, that are disappearing were only from the 1800’s. Not ancient times. |
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#9
posted to rec.boats
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Gulf Coast...
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 19:49:40 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 17:27:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/10/2018 1:58 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/10/18 1:54 PM, wrote: On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:44:43 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/10/18 12:38 PM, wrote: On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:08:51 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: ...being slammed by a result of global warming, a concept denied by the ignorant, intellectually lazy, coal baron wannabe in the White House. Yeah, we never had hurricanes before 1/20/2017, That *******! No surprise you and your fellow Trumpsters are ignoring what the climate scientists are saying. Perhaps we should be looking at what the economists and political science people are saying. There are 4-5 billion people in the 3d world who all want electricity, heat in the winter, A/C in the summer and a car. No matter what we do, increased energy demand is coming. Global warming is caused by population growth and upward mobility. Do you think either will stop? Of course it might. I worry a lot more about nuclear winter than I do global warming. As you are not a climate scientist and have absolutely no serious scientific credentials in that field or any other scientific field, I'll believe the climate scientists and other scientists. And what the latter are doing includes trying to force us to develop and implement fossil fuel alternatives and to cut back on the use of fossil fuels. You are not a climate scientist either and have absolutely no serious scientific credentials in that field. There are many scientist *with* the proper credentials who argue that climate change is a naturally occurring phenomena and mankind, as important as we may thing we are, has very little to do with it. As non-scientists we all have the right to believe what makes logical sense to us. You just happen to believe anything anybody tells you if it fits with your general political views. === There is clear and convincing evidence that the planet is indeed getting warmer. There is also a great deal of evidence that warm cycles have occurred many times in the past, as well as cold cycles, aka, the ice age. There have been serious scientific attempts, through the study of core samples in ancient ice, to see if past warming and cooling episodes correlated to levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide. Apparently there is some evidence for that also. The jury is still out on what caused these past fluctuations in CO2 but it's fairly certain that it wasn't caused by the burning of fossil fuels. There's a lot that is still unknown, that much is for sure. Reducing our dependence on fossil fuels for energy production seems like a good long term plan for many reasons however. Europe is way ahead of us in harnessing wind power, and we are somewhat behind in exploiting solar energy. But there are some encouraging signs that we're making progress. For anyone who doubts that the planet is getting warmer, I'd encourage them to watch a documentary on Netflix called "Chasing Ice". It is very well done, and watching huge glaciers disappear before your eyes on time lapse photography will make a believer out of you. It is totally apolitical and non-judgemental. I agree with everything you said there. Don't even need a 'snerk'! The problem is that Democrats need 'global warming' as another round in their ammo pile. |
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