On 12/20/2017 4:44 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/20/17 4:35 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/20/2017 3:14 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/20/17 1:49 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/20/2017 1:48 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 12/20/2017 1:14 PM, wrote:

He does use some misleading DNC talking points like "13 million lose
health care" instead of the truth that 13 million can choose not to
buy it but he does make some valid points and he is a very good
spokesman for the DNC party line. It makes you wonder why they tried
so hard to stop him in 2016.


What amazes me is how the Republicans and their pundits are
proclaiming
that 80 percent or more of the population will benefit from a tax cut
due to the Tax Cut and Jobs Act while at the same time the
Democrats and
their pundits are proclaiming that 80 percent of the population will
receive a tax hike.





Which party has a history of lying the most?



I'd say Hillary.

Nope. Trump is far, far worse.


Trump lies about the size of his rallies.Â* Hillary lies about top
secret emails on a private server.

Take your pick.


Here's a vid on Trump's lies...

https://is.gd/Jnxm3v

And here's the list:


Many Americans have become accustomed to President Trump’s lies. But as
regular as they have become, the country should not allow itself to
become numb to them. So we have catalogued nearly every outright lie he
has told publicly since taking the oath of office. Updated: The
president is still lying, so we've added to this list, taking it through
Nov. 11, and provided links to the facts in each case.

(stupid list snipped)

Has Trump lied about sending/receiving top secret, government emails on
a private server?

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 13:29:15 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 4:17:16 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 11:56:46 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 2:50:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 13:38:07 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/20/2017 1:14 PM, wrote:

He does use some misleading DNC talking points like "13 million lose
health care" instead of the truth that 13 million can choose not to
buy it but he does make some valid points and he is a very good
spokesman for the DNC party line. It makes you wonder why they tried
so hard to stop him in 2016.


What amazes me is how the Republicans and their pundits are proclaiming
that 80 percent or more of the population will benefit from a tax cut
due to the Tax Cut and Jobs Act while at the same time the Democrats and
their pundits are proclaiming that 80 percent of the population will
receive a tax hike.



The reality is the number who will pay no income taxes at all will go
up, maybe to over 50%. It is hard to reconcile how this raises taxes
for the 80%the democrats talk about.
As I said in my "middle" thread, the people being hurt by the SALT
thing will be the top 3 or 4 % in blue states. They even pushed the
mortgage limit up to 3 quarter million.
If you have a $750k mortgage, you are not in the middle of anything.

Tell NBC that. A week or two ago, they ran a story about the tax plan and used a couple in NJ as their "average Americans", interviewing them on how the plan would hurt them. They were living in a $750k house.


===

For northern NJ that is probably average or below. You have a similar
situation in southern NY and south western CT. It's a very expensive
area to live, exacerbated by very high state and local taxes.

Oh I realize that, but that's not average. Probably for that immediate area, but not for America. This was on NBC national news.

My point was that NBC picked a couple living in a very expensive area then posed them and their situation as average. Seems like it was Greg that pointed out that these coastal "elites" live in a bubble and don't seem to have a clue what it's like across this country for normal people.


===

I spent most of my adult years working and living in that area, and I
since I grew up in an economically depressed region, I was very aware
of the rest of the country. Many people from all over the world
migrate to the NY metro area because of the career opportunities and
most of them are aware also. Salaries are higher than average,
sometimes much higher, but a great deal of that gets eaten up by taxes
and the high cost of housing. I would posit that successful small
town businessmen and professionals enjoy a much higher overall
standard of living on average.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

On 12/20/17 4:49 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/20/2017 4:44 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/20/17 4:35 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/20/2017 3:14 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/20/17 1:49 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/20/2017 1:48 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 12/20/2017 1:14 PM, wrote:

He does use some misleading DNC talking points like "13 million
lose
health care" instead of the truth that 13 million can choose not to
buy it but he does make some valid points and he is a very good
spokesman for the DNC party line. It makes you wonder why they
tried
so hard to stop him in 2016.


What amazes me is how the Republicans and their pundits are
proclaiming
that 80 percent or more of the population will benefit from a tax
cut
due to the Tax Cut and Jobs Act while at the same time the
Democrats and
their pundits are proclaiming that 80 percent of the population will
receive a tax hike.





Which party has a history of lying the most?



I'd say Hillary.

Nope. Trump is far, far worse.


Trump lies about the size of his rallies.Â* Hillary lies about top
secret emails on a private server.

Take your pick.


Here's a vid on Trump's lies...

https://is.gd/Jnxm3v

And here's the list:


Many Americans have become accustomed to President Trump’s lies. But
as regular as they have become, the country should not allow itself to
become numb to them. So we have catalogued nearly every outright lie
he has told publicly since taking the oath of office. Updated: The
president is still lying, so we've added to this list, taking it
through Nov. 11, and provided links to the facts in each case.

(stupid list snipped)

Has Trump lied about sending/receiving top secret, government emails on
a private server?

He and his family and staff do it face to face while they launder the
money they get from the Russians and Turks.

Its Me wrote:
On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 4:17:16 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 11:56:46 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 2:50:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 13:38:07 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/20/2017 1:14 PM, wrote:

He does use some misleading DNC talking points like "13 million lose
health care" instead of the truth that 13 million can choose not to
buy it but he does make some valid points and he is a very good
spokesman for the DNC party line. It makes you wonder why they tried
so hard to stop him in 2016.


What amazes me is how the Republicans and their pundits are proclaiming
that 80 percent or more of the population will benefit from a tax cut
due to the Tax Cut and Jobs Act while at the same time the Democrats and
their pundits are proclaiming that 80 percent of the population will
receive a tax hike.



The reality is the number who will pay no income taxes at all will go
up, maybe to over 50%. It is hard to reconcile how this raises taxes
for the 80%the democrats talk about.
As I said in my "middle" thread, the people being hurt by the SALT
thing will be the top 3 or 4 % in blue states. They even pushed the
mortgage limit up to 3 quarter million.
If you have a $750k mortgage, you are not in the middle of anything.

Tell NBC that. A week or two ago, they ran a story about the tax plan
and used a couple in NJ as their "average Americans", interviewing them
on how the plan would hurt them. They were living in a $750k house.


==
For northern NJ that is probably average or below. You have a similar
situation in southern NY and south western CT. It's a very expensive
area to live, exacerbated by very high state and local taxes.

Oh I realize that, but that's not average. Probably for that immediate
area, but not for America. This was on NBC national news.

My point was that NBC picked a couple living in a very expensive area
then posed them and their situation as average. Seems like it was Greg
that pointed out that these coastal "elites" live in a bubble and don't
seem to have a clue what it's like across this country for normal people.


My city is considered middle class. Somehow. Has 4th highest average
income for a city it’s size in the USA. My house I bought in 1979 for
$138,5k is now a $1.3million abode. Thanks to. Lint on policies making
housing unaffordable in lots of the country. But, we are not really middle
class for most country. We are in the upper 7-10% group. Which is a
long ways from real middle.

Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
Funny. Hillary and the DNC went out of their way to eliminate him in 2016.
——

Exactly! That turned me and several others away.

Most that I knew of went Gary. I voted a write-in even though Harry thinks that Trump is “my boy�. Lol!

On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 5:42:32 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 13:29:15 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 4:17:16 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 11:56:46 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 2:50:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 13:38:07 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/20/2017 1:14 PM, wrote:

He does use some misleading DNC talking points like "13 million lose
health care" instead of the truth that 13 million can choose not to
buy it but he does make some valid points and he is a very good
spokesman for the DNC party line. It makes you wonder why they tried
so hard to stop him in 2016.


What amazes me is how the Republicans and their pundits are proclaiming
that 80 percent or more of the population will benefit from a tax cut
due to the Tax Cut and Jobs Act while at the same time the Democrats and
their pundits are proclaiming that 80 percent of the population will
receive a tax hike.



The reality is the number who will pay no income taxes at all will go
up, maybe to over 50%. It is hard to reconcile how this raises taxes
for the 80%the democrats talk about.
As I said in my "middle" thread, the people being hurt by the SALT
thing will be the top 3 or 4 % in blue states. They even pushed the
mortgage limit up to 3 quarter million.
If you have a $750k mortgage, you are not in the middle of anything..

Tell NBC that. A week or two ago, they ran a story about the tax plan and used a couple in NJ as their "average Americans", interviewing them on how the plan would hurt them. They were living in a $750k house.


===

For northern NJ that is probably average or below. You have a similar
situation in southern NY and south western CT. It's a very expensive
area to live, exacerbated by very high state and local taxes.

Oh I realize that, but that's not average. Probably for that immediate area, but not for America. This was on NBC national news.

My point was that NBC picked a couple living in a very expensive area then posed them and their situation as average. Seems like it was Greg that pointed out that these coastal "elites" live in a bubble and don't seem to have a clue what it's like across this country for normal people.


===

I spent most of my adult years working and living in that area, and I
since I grew up in an economically depressed region, I was very aware
of the rest of the country. Many people from all over the world
migrate to the NY metro area because of the career opportunities and
most of them are aware also. Salaries are higher than average,
sometimes much higher, but a great deal of that gets eaten up by taxes
and the high cost of housing. I would posit that successful small
town businessmen and professionals enjoy a much higher overall
standard of living on average.

I absolutely agree with that last sentence. I wouldn't live in one of those hellholes.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/20/2017 1:14 PM, wrote:

He does use some misleading DNC talking points like "13 million lose
health care" instead of the truth that 13 million can choose not to
buy it but he does make some valid points and he is a very good
spokesman for the DNC party line. It makes you wonder why they tried
so hard to stop him in 2016.


What amazes me is how the Republicans and their pundits are
proclaiming that 80 percent or more of the population will benefit
from a tax cut
due to the Tax Cut and Jobs Act while at the same time the Democrats
and their pundits are proclaiming that 80 percent of the population
will receive a tax hike.




Even CNN has this tool to see what you will save. I tried a variety of
scenarios and *all* resolved in a cut. Mine is far less than the middle
class as it's defined...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/13/politi...ill/index.html

wrote:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 13:38:07 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/20/2017 1:14 PM, wrote:

He does use some misleading DNC talking points like "13 million lose
health care" instead of the truth that 13 million can choose not to
buy it but he does make some valid points and he is a very good
spokesman for the DNC party line. It makes you wonder why they tried
so hard to stop him in 2016.

What amazes me is how the Republicans and their pundits are proclaiming
that 80 percent or more of the population will benefit from a tax cut
due to the Tax Cut and Jobs Act while at the same time the Democrats and
their pundits are proclaiming that 80 percent of the population will
receive a tax hike.


The reality is the number who will pay no income taxes at all will go
up, maybe to over 50%. It is hard to reconcile how this raises taxes
for the 80%the democrats talk about.
As I said in my "middle" thread, the people being hurt by the SALT
thing will be the top 3 or 4 % in blue states. They even pushed the
mortgage limit up to 3 quarter million.
If you have a $750k mortgage, you are not in the middle of anything.


What's a mortgage?

Alex wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/20/2017 1:14 PM, wrote:

He does use some misleading DNC talking points like "13 million lose
health care" instead of the truth that 13 million can choose not to
buy it but he does make some valid points and he is a very good
spokesman for the DNC party line. It makes you wonder why they tried
so hard to stop him in 2016.


What amazes me is how the Republicans and their pundits are
proclaiming that 80 percent or more of the population will benefit
from a tax cut
due to the Tax Cut and Jobs Act while at the same time the Democrats
and their pundits are proclaiming that 80 percent of the population
will receive a tax hike.




Even CNN has this tool to see what you will save. I tried a variety of
scenarios and *all* resolved in a cut. Mine is far less than the middle
class as it's defined...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/13/politi...ill/index.html


Looks like I save 3.1%

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 11:56:46 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 2:50:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 13:38:07 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/20/2017 1:14 PM, wrote:

He does use some misleading DNC talking points like "13 million lose
health care" instead of the truth that 13 million can choose not to
buy it but he does make some valid points and he is a very good
spokesman for the DNC party line. It makes you wonder why they tried
so hard to stop him in 2016.


What amazes me is how the Republicans and their pundits are proclaiming
that 80 percent or more of the population will benefit from a tax cut
due to the Tax Cut and Jobs Act while at the same time the Democrats and
their pundits are proclaiming that 80 percent of the population will
receive a tax hike.



The reality is the number who will pay no income taxes at all will go
up, maybe to over 50%. It is hard to reconcile how this raises taxes
for the 80%the democrats talk about.
As I said in my "middle" thread, the people being hurt by the SALT
thing will be the top 3 or 4 % in blue states. They even pushed the
mortgage limit up to 3 quarter million.
If you have a $750k mortgage, you are not in the middle of anything.

Tell NBC that. A week or two ago, they ran a story about the tax plan and used a couple in NJ as their "average Americans", interviewing them on how the plan would hurt them. They were living in a $750k house.

That is just the rarified air that coastal democrats live in. The
median price of a home in the US is $188,900.
You know, the people who elected Trump.
Millionaire talking heads on TV are not talking about the average
anything no matter what they say. They choose to forget the little
town they came from when they get to the network.