DSK wrote:



Personally, I don't think it's wise to "decriminalize" DSQs. I'd be more
in favor of going the other way... maybe kneecapping...

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Not sure I agree. DSQs can be the result of honest misunderstanding of
the rules. Not the same as the fair play rules.

Andy

Andy Champ wrote:
Not sure I agree. DSQs can be the result of honest misunderstanding of
the rules. Not the same as the fair play rules.

That's what 720s are for. A DSQ is well earned by somebody who gets into
an incident and *thinks* he is totally in the right. Not allowing it to
be discarded would provide incentive to actually learn the rules, and
would increase the level of sportsmanship IMHO.

DSK

DSK wrote:
Andy Champ wrote:

Not sure I agree. DSQs can be the result of honest misunderstanding
of the rules. Not the same as the fair play rules.


That's what 720s are for. A DSQ is well earned by somebody who gets into
an incident and *thinks* he is totally in the right. Not allowing it to
be discarded would provide incentive to actually learn the rules, and
would increase the level of sportsmanship IMHO.

DSK

Again, not sure I agree. There's a sliding scale here between
misjudging something, no impact, but the stand-on boat has to take
evasive action; (2 turns) the case where you honestly think you are
right, but aren't (usually protest & DSQ) and the case I've had where
the port side boat in an ordinary P&S just doesn't give way, despite
hails and all.

A DSQ does concentrate the mind for most people.

Andy

Andy Champ wrote:
Again, not sure I agree. There's a sliding scale here between
misjudging something, no impact, but the stand-on boat has to take
evasive action;

But if the give-way boat doesn't do a 720, and the stand-on boat has had
to take evasive action, then the give-way boat has gained an advantage.
If it is an honest mistake then the skipper should be willing to do a
720. Otherwise it is cheating, basically.

The reason the 720 was brought in is so that small errors in judgement
don't result in a DSQ... the sportsmanlike action used to be to withdraw
from a race if one knew one had fouled a competitor. How many people do
you think would do that nowadays?


... (2 turns) the case where you honestly think you are
right, but aren't (usually protest & DSQ) and the case I've had where
the port side boat in an ordinary P&S just doesn't give way, despite
hails and all.

A DSQ does concentrate the mind for most people.

Agreed.

Shucks, if I'm going to protest somebody I almost always do a 720 just
for CYA. Protest committees do some wierd things, I've seen them ignore
clear cut infractions, hand DSQs to stand-on boats, but so far I haven't
had one hand me a DSQ after a 720.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:

Shucks, if I'm going to protest somebody I almost always do a 720 just
for CYA. Protest committees do some wierd things, I've seen them ignore
clear cut infractions, hand DSQs to stand-on boats, but so far I haven't
had one hand me a DSQ after a 720.


My memory could be playing tricks, but aren't there cases where by
taking a 720 you are admitting blame, and it prevents you from winning a
protest against the other party?

Andy

In article ,
says...
DSK wrote:

Shucks, if I'm going to protest somebody I almost always do a 720 just
for CYA. Protest committees do some wierd things, I've seen them ignore
clear cut infractions, hand DSQs to stand-on boats, but so far I haven't
had one hand me a DSQ after a 720.


My memory could be playing tricks, but aren't there cases where by
taking a 720 you are admitting blame, and it prevents you from winning a
protest against the other party?

Don't see how sailing around in a couple of pointless circles "admits"
anything (some light days I see several boats doing this several times in
one race g). OTOH, if you're in Scoring Penalty land, flying a yellow
flag indicates that you "take" the penalty (RRs 44.3).

John

Andy Champ wrote:
My memory could be playing tricks, but aren't there cases where by
taking a 720 you are admitting blame, and it prevents you from winning a
protest against the other party?

Not as far as i know. There used to be least two IIRC cites in the case
book where a decision along those lines was overturned on appeal. Doing
a 720 is *not* an admission of guilt, although at the moment I can't
point to a specific case for proof.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King