On 8/20/17 1:40 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/20/17 10:38 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 17:34:54 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 8/19/17 4:36 PM, Tim wrote:
On Saturday, August 19, 2017 at 9:15:29 AM UTC-5, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/19/17 10:06 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 15:04:46 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:


Many historians consider Truman in the top 10 of presidents.

Many historians consider Robert E Lee a great general and an honorable
man but you think he is just a traitor.


I wouldn't dispute Lee's military prowess. An honorable man wouldn't
have taken up arms against the United States.

He didn't. He took up arms to answer the call of his beloved state of Virginia.

"With all my devotion to the Union and the feeling of loyalty and duty
of an American citizen, I have not been able to make up my mind to
raise my hand against my relatives, my children, my home. I have
therefore resigned my commission in the Army, and save in defense of
my native State, with the sincere hope that my poor
services may never be needed, I hope I may never be called on to draw my sword..." Lee


I've seen the quote before...it's just another rationalization. An
honorable soldier might have resigned a commission and stayed home. He
wouldn't have quit one side to take up arms with the enemy. And what was

he defending his native state from, the abolition of slavery? That's
some honorable position.

You miss the point that the State of Virginia was of more concern to
him than a bunch of politicians in another state. This was a time when
most people lived their whole lives within a 100 mile radius of where
they were born and they more closely identified with their state than
the federal government. Bear in mind the only federal office they
actually voted on was their house members and there was very little
the federal government controlled in their lives. The state government
was the government.


No doubt that was why the country was called the *United* States of
America. Lee was a traitor and seditionist. You haven't anything that
would convince anyone otherwise.


Yup. states were a major part of the name. Sort of like the European
Union. Separate governments combing for a specific purpose.


The countries making up the European Union are free to vote themselves
out of it, ala Brexit. The states in the United States are not free to
vote themselves out of the American union, much as I joke about
California, et al, moving on.

On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 11:47:46 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You miss the point that the State of Virginia was of more concern to
him than a bunch of politicians in another state. This was a time when
most people lived their whole lives within a 100 mile radius of where
they were born and they more closely identified with their state than
the federal government. Bear in mind the only federal office they
actually voted on was their house members and there was very little
the federal government controlled in their lives. The state government
was the government.


No doubt that was why the country was called the *United* States of
America. Lee was a traitor and seditionist. You haven't anything that
would convince anyone otherwise.

That assumes you think wanting to secede is the same as being a
traitor. If so California is full of traitors right now. Should we be
invading them?

On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 14:53:16 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

Yup. states were a major part of the name. Sort of like the European
Union. Separate governments combing for a specific purpose.


The countries making up the European Union are free to vote themselves
out of it, ala Brexit. The states in the United States are not free to
vote themselves out of the American union, much as I joke about
California, et al, moving on.


Just exactly where is that defined in the Constitution?
They talk about how you get in but they are silent about how or even
if you can leave.

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/20/17 1:40 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/20/17 10:38 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 17:34:54 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 8/19/17 4:36 PM, Tim wrote:
On Saturday, August 19, 2017 at 9:15:29 AM UTC-5, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/19/17 10:06 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 15:04:46 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:


Many historians consider Truman in the top 10 of presidents.

Many historians consider Robert E Lee a great general and an honorable
man but you think he is just a traitor.


I wouldn't dispute Lee's military prowess. An honorable man wouldn't
have taken up arms against the United States.

He didn't. He took up arms to answer the call of his beloved state of Virginia.

"With all my devotion to the Union and the feeling of loyalty and duty
of an American citizen, I have not been able to make up my mind to
raise my hand against my relatives, my children, my home. I have
therefore resigned my commission in the Army, and save in defense of
my native State, with the sincere hope that my poor
services may never be needed, I hope I may never be called on to draw my sword..." Lee


I've seen the quote before...it's just another rationalization. An
honorable soldier might have resigned a commission and stayed home. He
wouldn't have quit one side to take up arms with the enemy. And what was

he defending his native state from, the abolition of slavery? That's
some honorable position.

You miss the point that the State of Virginia was of more concern to
him than a bunch of politicians in another state. This was a time when
most people lived their whole lives within a 100 mile radius of where
they were born and they more closely identified with their state than
the federal government. Bear in mind the only federal office they
actually voted on was their house members and there was very little
the federal government controlled in their lives. The state government
was the government.


No doubt that was why the country was called the *United* States of
America. Lee was a traitor and seditionist. You haven't anything that
would convince anyone otherwise.


Yup. states were a major part of the name. Sort of like the European
Union. Separate governments combing for a specific purpose.


The countries making up the European Union are free to vote themselves
out of it, ala Brexit. The states in the United States are not free to
vote themselves out of the American union, much as I joke about
California, et al, moving on.





Where is or which the law that is preventing seceding?

On 8/20/17 2:54 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 11:47:46 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You miss the point that the State of Virginia was of more concern to
him than a bunch of politicians in another state. This was a time when
most people lived their whole lives within a 100 mile radius of where
they were born and they more closely identified with their state than
the federal government. Bear in mind the only federal office they
actually voted on was their house members and there was very little
the federal government controlled in their lives. The state government
was the government.


No doubt that was why the country was called the *United* States of
America. Lee was a traitor and seditionist. You haven't anything that
would convince anyone otherwise.

That assumes you think wanting to secede is the same as being a
traitor. If so California is full of traitors right now. Should we be
invading them?



Wanting to secede? Lee and his seditious, traitorous buddies *did* secede.

On 8/20/17 3:56 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 14:53:16 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

Yup. states were a major part of the name. Sort of like the European
Union. Separate governments combing for a specific purpose.


The countries making up the European Union are free to vote themselves
out of it, ala Brexit. The states in the United States are not free to
vote themselves out of the American union, much as I joke about
California, et al, moving on.


Just exactly where is that defined in the Constitution?
They talk about how you get in but they are silent about how or even
if you can leave.


A number of states left...you recall what that got them?

On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 18:33:02 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 8/20/17 3:56 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 14:53:16 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

Yup. states were a major part of the name. Sort of like the European
Union. Separate governments combing for a specific purpose.


The countries making up the European Union are free to vote themselves
out of it, ala Brexit. The states in the United States are not free to
vote themselves out of the American union, much as I joke about
California, et al, moving on.


Just exactly where is that defined in the Constitution?
They talk about how you get in but they are silent about how or even
if you can leave.


A number of states left...you recall what that got them?

An aggressive and unconstitutional invasion from the North?

You still duck the question. Where, in the constitution, does it say
the states can't secede? Where does it say the president has the
authority to declare war on them for it?
Just as a sanity check I read the constitution carefully again today
and it is silent on the issue.
It is interesting that Lincoln recognized the secession when it was
convenient to do so while denying it was actually valid. (Specifically
Article IV Section 3(1) and West Virginia)

On 8/20/17 9:58 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 18:33:02 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 8/20/17 3:56 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 14:53:16 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

Yup. states were a major part of the name. Sort of like the European
Union. Separate governments combing for a specific purpose.


The countries making up the European Union are free to vote themselves
out of it, ala Brexit. The states in the United States are not free to
vote themselves out of the American union, much as I joke about
California, et al, moving on.


Just exactly where is that defined in the Constitution?
They talk about how you get in but they are silent about how or even
if you can leave.


A number of states left...you recall what that got them?

An aggressive and unconstitutional invasion from the North?

You still duck the question. Where, in the constitution, does it say
the states can't secede? Where does it say the president has the
authority to declare war on them for it?
Just as a sanity check I read the constitution carefully again today
and it is silent on the issue.
It is interesting that Lincoln recognized the secession when it was
convenient to do so while denying it was actually valid. (Specifically
Article IV Section 3(1) and West Virginia)


You're the best "snickers man" on here.

On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 22:01:27 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 8/20/17 9:58 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 18:33:02 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 8/20/17 3:56 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 14:53:16 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

Yup. states were a major part of the name. Sort of like the European
Union. Separate governments combing for a specific purpose.


The countries making up the European Union are free to vote themselves
out of it, ala Brexit. The states in the United States are not free to
vote themselves out of the American union, much as I joke about
California, et al, moving on.


Just exactly where is that defined in the Constitution?
They talk about how you get in but they are silent about how or even
if you can leave.


A number of states left...you recall what that got them?

An aggressive and unconstitutional invasion from the North?

You still duck the question. Where, in the constitution, does it say
the states can't secede? Where does it say the president has the
authority to declare war on them for it?
Just as a sanity check I read the constitution carefully again today
and it is silent on the issue.
It is interesting that Lincoln recognized the secession when it was
convenient to do so while denying it was actually valid. (Specifically
Article IV Section 3(1) and West Virginia)


You're the best "snickers man" on here.

You still have not told me where Lincoln got the constitutional
authority to invade the south.

On 8/20/2017 6:33 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/20/17 3:56 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 14:53:16 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

Yup.Â* states were a major part of the name.Â* Sort of like the European
Union.Â* Separate governments combing for a specific purpose.


The countries making up the European Union are free to vote themselves
out of it, ala Brexit. The states in the United States are not free to
vote themselves out of the American union, much as I joke about
California, et al, moving on.


Just exactly where is that defined in the Constitution?
They talk about how you get in but they are silent about how or even
if you can leave.


A number of states left...you recall what that got them?


It wasn't until *after* the Civil War that the Supreme Court ruled (in
1889) that states did not have the Constitutional right to unilaterally
secede.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White