On 8/9/2017 1:33 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 8/9/2017 10:35 AM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/8/2017 9:12 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 8/8/2017 4:13 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

An elderly friend has a 2013 Keystone Cougar fifth wheel that he and his
wife snowbird to Florida in during the winter. When he came back this
year the main control panel that controls slides, lights, displays
fresh, grey and black water levels, etc. stopped working. Doesn't even
light up like it's supposed to. He asked me if I had any ideas and,
being the friendly, helpful sort I offered to see if I could find the
problem.

Not that simple. For a couple of years Keystone made these panels using
a membrane type switch panel that transmits wirelessly to a "brain" in
one of the forward compartments. Worse, there are no manuals, wiring
diagrams or schematics for the system. Worse yet, they had so many
problems with this system that they no longer make it or support it.
Checked a few places on the Internet in hopes of finding some kind of
documentation and all I found was horror story after horror story of
people with this system. Some failed shortly after they bought the
fifth wheel and never worked again.

I realized it was wireless while checking some voltages. When I checked
in the area of the "brain" my digital meter would initially read
12.something volts but then start slowly climbing to as high as 18
volts. I thought the meter was bad but when checking voltages at the
other end of the fifth wheel where the control panel is, the readings
were rock solid. Then I noticed a strange wire going nowhere that came
out of the "brain" and realized it was an antenna. The whole system
operates wirelessly and my meter was being affected by the RF noise.

The manufacturer of the wireless system is of no help either. No
diagrams available, no schematics, no replacement PC boards (everything
is surface mount). They basically have disowned anything to do with
this system.

My friend contacted a third party supplier who said they can send a
"kit" to replace the main control panel - no wireing diagrams though and
but will not guarantee it will work and no returns. The kit is $500.

I wish I never offered to help him. Now I own the damn problem.

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Googled
it and came up with dead battery in remote. Also says it
wont work if you stray from front of 5th wheel.
There seems to be a lot of buzz about this problem on the internet.


Yeah, I found the thing about the batteries in the remote and how to
reset the whole system. Put new batteries in it and did the reset
procedure. No luck. Still no power on the control panel. I pulled the
panel out and checked the input voltage. It comes in on four pairs of
terminals and they all read 12.4 volts. There's a PC board in the panel
with a bunch of relays, logic chips and diodes on it. Everything is
double surface mount, so not designed to be worked on ... only replace
the whole board (which isn't made anymore).

The slides work with the remote, so that's most important as well as
some of the interior lights. There's a few more lights and the
redundant slide controls plus the input sensors from the three tanks so
the panel not working doesn't prevent them from using the rig.

Without any wiring diagrams, schematics or documentation of any kind
it's really Easter Egging as far as trying to troubleshoot.


In that case encourage them to trade it or sell it outright


That's my plan. I am going to give it one more try at trying to
determine if anything other than what's on the PC board is preventing
the panel from even turning on. If no luck with that I will recommend
as you suggested. He already bought another camper that mounts in the
bed of his truck. He's been saying that his days of hauling a big fifth
wheel are coming to an end anyway. I'll suggest that he sell the
Cougar disclosing the control panel problem and adjust the selling price
accordingly. A new owner may be willing to invest more into it in terms
of getting it fixed. If the problem was simple that's one thing. But,
unless I stumble on something today, the problem isn't simple, as
evidenced by the experiences of others who have had this system and it's
problems.


The motors for the slides have to be similar to John's or anybody else's
these days. Just the control panel different. Could probably just replace
the panel with a modern one with switches. Tracing the wires might be a
pain, but a $30 tracer from Lowes, etc. should do the job.


He can operate the slides with the remote control. It's just some
lights, maybe a roof fan and the displays for the three tanks that don't
work.




Lights may be burned out. Fan might have a blown fuse. Mmight be
broken wire/s on tank sensors. I f you are going to work this out
choose one problem at a
time to solve. But you know that.
;-)



All the fuses are good (pulled every single one of them and even checked
for continuity with a meter). Overhead fan works if you turn it on
manually at the fan. If I could get the control panel to light up at
least I'd have a start.