Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.

On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 12:23:07 PM UTC-4, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

NYC? Haha... that has to be the most tightly union controlled place on the planet. When we shipped equipment into the city, we had to have it off-loaded outside the city to a union driven truck for it to be accepted for delivery at the site. I had to point at connection points in a wiring frame so a union guy could connect the test equipment. Then he'd hand it to me so I could run the test, then I'd hand it back to him with instructions on where to connect it next, just because I wasn't allowed to touch the wiring frame. All because "they'd worked hard to secure their jobs, and they were going to protect them", or some such BS. The guy couldn't do my job, but it took him, the steward overlooking us, and me to do what I could do by myself.

I do have to say the guys ran the wiring very neatly. Too bad it was full of wiring errors I had to identify and tell them how to correct.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 10:46:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote:


NYC? Haha... that has to be the most tightly union controlled place on the planet. When we shipped equipment into the city, we had to have it off-loaded outside the city to a union driven truck for it to be accepted for delivery at the site. I had to point at connection points in a wiring frame so a union guy could connect the test equipment. Then he'd hand it to me so I could run the test, then I'd hand it back to him with instructions on where to connect it next, just because I wasn't allowed to touch the wiring frame. All because "they'd worked hard to secure their jobs, and they were going to protect them", or some such BS. The guy couldn't do my job, but it took him, the steward overlooking us, and me to do what I could do by myself.

I do have to say the guys ran the wiring very neatly. Too bad it was full of wiring errors I had to identify and tell them how to correct.

No, Chicago has New York beat. The IBEW managed to totally ban non
metallic wiring methods for 70 years. You even had to run wire in
metal pipe in 1 and 2 family. They have backed off a little but it is
still very restrictive.
When I was in the Ed Center in Chicago as a temp instructor we wanted
to move some machines around. I just started pulling floor tiles and
dropping cables. The ed center manager freaked out. We needed to call
in a few IBEW members to watch. They sat there drinking $25 an hour
coffee (in the early 80s) while we did all the work but they had to be
there. There is no way we would actually let them under our covers.
They used to let them pull the cables but they broke too many so we
needed as many feather bedders as we had people doing the work. If
someone just came over and touched a cable, we needed to bring in
another electrician. When I asked "why even let them know we did it",
they told me the union cleaners or other maintenance people would rat
them out and they would strike the whole building.
Maybe that idiocy helped to form my negative image of unions. Bear in
mind I grew up in the shadow of the Teamsters international.

On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 2:12:47 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 10:46:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote:


NYC? Haha... that has to be the most tightly union controlled place on the planet. When we shipped equipment into the city, we had to have it off-loaded outside the city to a union driven truck for it to be accepted for delivery at the site. I had to point at connection points in a wiring frame so a union guy could connect the test equipment. Then he'd hand it to me so I could run the test, then I'd hand it back to him with instructions on where to connect it next, just because I wasn't allowed to touch the wiring frame. All because "they'd worked hard to secure their jobs, and they were going to protect them", or some such BS. The guy couldn't do my job, but it took him, the steward overlooking us, and me to do what I could do by myself.

I do have to say the guys ran the wiring very neatly. Too bad it was full of wiring errors I had to identify and tell them how to correct.

No, Chicago has New York beat. The IBEW managed to totally ban non
metallic wiring methods for 70 years. You even had to run wire in
metal pipe in 1 and 2 family. They have backed off a little but it is
still very restrictive.
When I was in the Ed Center in Chicago as a temp instructor we wanted
to move some machines around. I just started pulling floor tiles and
dropping cables. The ed center manager freaked out. We needed to call
in a few IBEW members to watch. They sat there drinking $25 an hour
coffee (in the early 80s) while we did all the work but they had to be
there. There is no way we would actually let them under our covers.
They used to let them pull the cables but they broke too many so we
needed as many feather bedders as we had people doing the work. If
someone just came over and touched a cable, we needed to bring in
another electrician. When I asked "why even let them know we did it",
they told me the union cleaners or other maintenance people would rat
them out and they would strike the whole building.
Maybe that idiocy helped to form my negative image of unions. Bear in
mind I grew up in the shadow of the Teamsters international.

A friend I worked with lived in a suburb of Chicago for a while. Says that PVC water pipes are not allowed up there, so when you had an issue you had to call a union plumber to sweat the copper.. Also told me about the house wiring having to be in conduit.

What a crock.

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.

On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?



Hire a drunk union carpenter to fall.

On 9/12/16 10:50 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?



Hire a drunk union carpenter to fall.


Well, the first part of your statement might explain why you fell off
that roof...you were drunk.

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 10:50 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 8:26 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/12/16 12:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/11/16 8:00 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:42:19 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


You mean the ones who have gone through three to four years of serious
apprenticeship training and on the job training? Absolutely in
comparison to those who haven't.

I am having a hard time thinking of a trade that takes 4 years to
learn. This is more about limiting the number of people who can get
into the trades.
There may have been a time when trades were arts but technology has
made the most intricate skills obsolete. Nobody is packing oakum in
cast iron pipe and filling it with molten lead.


Your experience on jobsites that are more than stick built houses and
tilt up strip malls obviously is limited. Try laying out and building a
one wythe serpentine wall 100' feet long, building a 12 story
loadbearing office building, doing the pipe welding for a nuclear
facility or the iron work on a 60-story building and get back to me with
your two weeks of training. Your arrogance about the lack of skills of
construction craftworkers never ceases to astonish.


4 years? My brother was a welder on a nuclear facility. He was a welder
on the nuke plant they built in the Antarctic. He did not spend 4 years
learning to weld pipe. Building a 12 story, or a 50 story building, takes
engineering talent, and lots of training. To bolt, rivet or weld that
frame does not take 4 years to learn. I went to school for 36 weeks to
learn to fix mainframe computer systems for NCR. I got a 4 year degree in
Electronic engineering. That did not require 4 years of 40 hour weeks.



Try reading for content. Apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades
typically run three to four years of classroom and practical training.
I love the attempts here to minimize the skills necessary to build large
or complex structures. Hell, man, you fell off the roof of a house, right?

Here, go argue with the owners of this site:

http://www.constructionskills.org/pages/at.html

Apprentices who enter the construction industry through Construction
Skills attend classes paid for by unions and contractors, while
simultaneously being employed on projects in their craft throughout New
York City.*

As part of a registered apprenticeship program, apprentices receive a
minimum of 144 hours of annual classroom instruction covering the
theory, principles and technical knowledge required to do the job. They
also receive on-the-job training while employed at wages which increase
as their skills progress.

At the successful conclusion of apprenticeship training, which typically
lasts 3-5 years depending on the trade, apprentices graduate to journey
workers. Journey workers are recognized as the most qualified members of
their craft and are paid top wages and benefits.

Apprenticeship is the process of learning a skilled occupation through:

On-the-job training (practical, paid experience)

Classroom training (related, technical education)

All training is afforded to you free-of-charge as a union member
(similar to a scholarship)
Apprentices earn approximately $15–20 per hour plus benefits
Journey workers earn approximately $30–40 per hour plus benefits

The length of training varies from two to five years, depending on the
trade.**


* and ** It's pretty much the same for union apprenticeships throughout
the U.S. and Canada.


So, once again, in your long history of doing so, you have ejaculated
nonsense and ignorance.


Does not take 4 years. Fact is with an engineering degree, I can get a
general contractors license with one year of experience.


And build what? Roofs to fall off of?



Hire a drunk union carpenter to fall.


Well, the first part of your statement might explain why you fell off
that roof...you were drunk.


Might, but have not been drunk for over 40 years. Group went out after a
class.