"There are no tests to identify the mental psychopathy which would cause the
behavior. Furthermore, young people are very good at hiding facts about themselves.
For example, look at how many parents are surprised when their sons or daughters
'come out of the closet'." (Or words to that effect.)

That would take the wind out of the sails (boating related) of those wanting 'mental
tests' for a gun permit.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 07:53:17 -0400, John H.
wrote:

"There are no tests to identify the mental psychopathy which would cause the
behavior. Furthermore, young people are very good at hiding facts about themselves.
For example, look at how many parents are surprised when their sons or daughters
'come out of the closet'." (Or words to that effect.)

That would take the wind out of the sails (boating related) of those wanting 'mental
tests' for a gun permit.

===

It's a difficult problem with no easy answers. There's clearly a
mental health issue with all of these shooters. The problem, as you
point out, is trying to identify the warning signals in advance.

It's interesting to note the paralells between the Connecticut shooter
and the Oregon shooter. Both had mothers with serious gun
collections. Both mothers knew their sons had emotional issues but
let them have access to guns anyway and encouraged their interest.
Perhaps it's time to hold parents accountable in some of these
situations. It's easy to argue that they've suffered enough already
but there has to be some penalty for this kind of irresponsible
parenting.

On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 07:53:17 -0400, John H.
wrote:

"There are no tests to identify the mental psychopathy which would cause the
behavior. Furthermore, young people are very good at hiding facts about themselves.
For example, look at how many parents are surprised when their sons or daughters
'come out of the closet'." (Or words to that effect.)

That would take the wind out of the sails (boating related) of those wanting 'mental
tests' for a gun permit.

===

It's a difficult problem with no easy answers. There's clearly a
mental health issue with all of these shooters. The problem, as you
point out, is trying to identify the warning signals in advance.

It's interesting to note the paralells between the Connecticut shooter
and the Oregon shooter. Both had mothers with serious gun
collections. Both mothers knew their sons had emotional issues but
let them have access to guns anyway and encouraged their interest.
Perhaps it's time to hold parents accountable in some of these
situations. It's easy to argue that they've suffered enough already
but there has to be some penalty for this kind of irresponsible
parenting.

On the parents' side, my younger daughter had 'emotional issues' after her mother
died and she had to come live with me. She wanted to live with her older sister. We
went through some troubling times, but she grew out of it. Like I used to tell
parents when I was teaching, "Adolescent behavior is rough to live with, but the kids
do outgrow it...about the time they're 26 years old." I kept the guns locked up when
the daughter was here as a kid, but I'd trust her with the key to the safe now.

I would guess more than half (maybe *many* more than half) the adolescents have
'emotional issues' of one kind or another. A large portion are ADD or ADHD. For
parents to be able to identify a disorder that might lead to shooting behavior, given
that shrinks admit they themselves can't do it, would seem a near impossibility.

--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On 10/8/2015 9:07 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 07:53:17 -0400, John H.
wrote:

"There are no tests to identify the mental psychopathy which would cause the
behavior. Furthermore, young people are very good at hiding facts about themselves.
For example, look at how many parents are surprised when their sons or daughters
'come out of the closet'." (Or words to that effect.)

That would take the wind out of the sails (boating related) of those wanting 'mental
tests' for a gun permit.

===

It's a difficult problem with no easy answers. There's clearly a
mental health issue with all of these shooters. The problem, as you
point out, is trying to identify the warning signals in advance.

It's interesting to note the paralells between the Connecticut shooter
and the Oregon shooter. Both had mothers with serious gun
collections. Both mothers knew their sons had emotional issues but
let them have access to guns anyway and encouraged their interest.
Perhaps it's time to hold parents accountable in some of these
situations. It's easy to argue that they've suffered enough already
but there has to be some penalty for this kind of irresponsible
parenting.

On the parents' side, my younger daughter had 'emotional issues' after her mother
died and she had to come live with me. She wanted to live with her older sister. We
went through some troubling times, but she grew out of it. Like I used to tell
parents when I was teaching, "Adolescent behavior is rough to live with, but the kids
do outgrow it...about the time they're 26 years old." I kept the guns locked up when
the daughter was here as a kid, but I'd trust her with the key to the safe now.

I would guess more than half (maybe *many* more than half) the adolescents have
'emotional issues' of one kind or another. A large portion are ADD or ADHD. For
parents to be able to identify a disorder that might lead to shooting behavior, given
that shrinks admit they themselves can't do it, would seem a near impossibility.



We have had some very troubling events in the past 2 weeks, one related
to these issues.

First, my older son's daughter's boyfriend committed suicide Sept 30th
by shooting himself in the head with a gun. They were both JR's in high
school in SC and had been dating for several months. My granddaugher
was admitted to a mental health facility to get help
with this. Apparently her boyfriend had been depressed or had some
issues and she had been trying to help him overcome them. The
authorities sought and recovered all their text messages on their
respective cell phones.

Then, on Oct 3, in a unrelated event, my son's father-in-law passed away
from lung cancer. (He was a non-smoker, BTW.) He was diagnosed about 8
months ago and his condition deteriorated rapidly. Very hard on my
daughter-in law and on my granddaughter as they had been very close.

The mental health facility released her so she can attend her (other)
grandfather's funeral Friday. They all flew up last night and we'll
be seeing them all later today.

I don't understand how so many young kids today are being diagnosed
with depression, ADD or ADHD. Seems like that's all you hear about.
I can't help but to think that there are other social issues that
are influencing young people today. The rights of parents to deal with
them are being taken away and the shrinks are filling the kids full of
pills to combat the problems.

Old fashioned, but I don't remember any of these things being a big
issue in the days before electronic social media and cell phones that
have, in many cases, replaced real, human to human interaction. It
seems to me that young people have become numb to real emotions and
dealings with others. Plus, parents in my generation were allowed to be
parents without the constant pressure of shrinks and "experts" telling
them their kid's are all screwed up.

Sucks.

On 10/8/15 9:56 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/8/2015 9:07 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400,

First, my older son's daughter's boyfriend committed suicide Sept 30th
by shooting himself in the head with a gun. They were both JR's in high
school in SC and had been dating for several months. My granddaugher
was admitted to a mental health facility to get help
with this. Apparently her boyfriend had been depressed or had some
issues and she had been trying to help him overcome them. The
authorities sought and recovered all their text messages on their
respective cell phones.


Were the young man's parents "helping" him find ways to deal with his
depression? Was he in counseling? Who diagnosed him as being
"depressed"? Was the firearm he used in the possession of his parents?
If so, why wasn't it kept locked up, especially if the family had a kid
suffering from depression?

On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 10:10:53 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 10/8/15 9:56 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/8/2015 9:07 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400,

First, my older son's daughter's boyfriend committed suicide Sept 30th
by shooting himself in the head with a gun. They were both JR's in high
school in SC and had been dating for several months. My granddaugher
was admitted to a mental health facility to get help
with this. Apparently her boyfriend had been depressed or had some
issues and she had been trying to help him overcome them. The
authorities sought and recovered all their text messages on their
respective cell phones.


Were the young man's parents "helping" him find ways to deal with his
depression? Was he in counseling? Who diagnosed him as being
"depressed"? Was the firearm he used in the possession of his parents?
If so, why wasn't it kept locked up, especially if the family had a kid
suffering from depression?


My nephew was suffering from depression and the family went out of
their way to rid the house of anything dangerous that they could think
of. He hanged himself from a tree.,

On 10/8/2015 9:10 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/8/15 9:56 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/8/2015 9:07 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400,

First, my older son's daughter's boyfriend committed suicide Sept 30th
by shooting himself in the head with a gun. They were both JR's in high
school in SC and had been dating for several months. My granddaugher
was admitted to a mental health facility to get help
with this. Apparently her boyfriend had been depressed or had some
issues and she had been trying to help him overcome them. The
authorities sought and recovered all their text messages on their
respective cell phones.


Were the young man's parents "helping" him find ways to deal with his
depression? Was he in counseling? Who diagnosed him as being
"depressed"? Was the firearm he used in the possession of his parents?
If so, why wasn't it kept locked up, especially if the family had a kid
suffering from depression?


What insight. Especially since WAFA never experienced the joy of
bringing up his children.

On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 10:10:53 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 10/8/15 9:56 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/8/2015 9:07 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400,

First, my older son's daughter's boyfriend committed suicide Sept 30th
by shooting himself in the head with a gun. They were both JR's in high
school in SC and had been dating for several months. My granddaugher
was admitted to a mental health facility to get help
with this. Apparently her boyfriend had been depressed or had some
issues and she had been trying to help him overcome them. The
authorities sought and recovered all their text messages on their
respective cell phones.


Were the young man's parents "helping" him find ways to deal with his
depression? Was he in counseling? Who diagnosed him as being
"depressed"? Was the firearm he used in the possession of his parents?
If so, why wasn't it kept locked up, especially if the family had a kid
suffering from depression?


Typical judgemental bull**** from our chronic liar. Learn to overcome your problem
before passing judgment.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 09:56:34 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/8/2015 9:07 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 07:53:17 -0400, John H.
wrote:

"There are no tests to identify the mental psychopathy which would cause the
behavior. Furthermore, young people are very good at hiding facts about themselves.
For example, look at how many parents are surprised when their sons or daughters
'come out of the closet'." (Or words to that effect.)

That would take the wind out of the sails (boating related) of those wanting 'mental
tests' for a gun permit.

===

It's a difficult problem with no easy answers. There's clearly a
mental health issue with all of these shooters. The problem, as you
point out, is trying to identify the warning signals in advance.

It's interesting to note the paralells between the Connecticut shooter
and the Oregon shooter. Both had mothers with serious gun
collections. Both mothers knew their sons had emotional issues but
let them have access to guns anyway and encouraged their interest.
Perhaps it's time to hold parents accountable in some of these
situations. It's easy to argue that they've suffered enough already
but there has to be some penalty for this kind of irresponsible
parenting.

On the parents' side, my younger daughter had 'emotional issues' after her mother
died and she had to come live with me. She wanted to live with her older sister. We
went through some troubling times, but she grew out of it. Like I used to tell
parents when I was teaching, "Adolescent behavior is rough to live with, but the kids
do outgrow it...about the time they're 26 years old." I kept the guns locked up when
the daughter was here as a kid, but I'd trust her with the key to the safe now.

I would guess more than half (maybe *many* more than half) the adolescents have
'emotional issues' of one kind or another. A large portion are ADD or ADHD. For
parents to be able to identify a disorder that might lead to shooting behavior, given
that shrinks admit they themselves can't do it, would seem a near impossibility.



We have had some very troubling events in the past 2 weeks, one related
to these issues.

First, my older son's daughter's boyfriend committed suicide Sept 30th
by shooting himself in the head with a gun. They were both JR's in high
school in SC and had been dating for several months. My granddaugher
was admitted to a mental health facility to get help
with this. Apparently her boyfriend had been depressed or had some
issues and she had been trying to help him overcome them. The
authorities sought and recovered all their text messages on their
respective cell phones.

Then, on Oct 3, in a unrelated event, my son's father-in-law passed away
from lung cancer. (He was a non-smoker, BTW.) He was diagnosed about 8
months ago and his condition deteriorated rapidly. Very hard on my
daughter-in law and on my granddaughter as they had been very close.

The mental health facility released her so she can attend her (other)
grandfather's funeral Friday. They all flew up last night and we'll
be seeing them all later today.

I don't understand how so many young kids today are being diagnosed
with depression, ADD or ADHD. Seems like that's all you hear about.
I can't help but to think that there are other social issues that
are influencing young people today. The rights of parents to deal with
them are being taken away and the shrinks are filling the kids full of
pills to combat the problems.

Old fashioned, but I don't remember any of these things being a big
issue in the days before electronic social media and cell phones that
have, in many cases, replaced real, human to human interaction. It
seems to me that young people have become numb to real emotions and
dealings with others. Plus, parents in my generation were allowed to be
parents without the constant pressure of shrinks and "experts" telling
them their kid's are all screwed up.

Sucks.


===

Wow, you have certainly had more than your share. These things are
very tough on all concerned. Tragic loss is something that everyone
has to deal with from time to time but that doesn't make it easier.
Hopefully your family will eventually get through all of it and go on
with their lives.

On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 09:56:34 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I don't understand how so many young kids today are being diagnosed
with depression, ADD or ADHD. Seems like that's all you hear about.
I can't help but to think that there are other social issues that
are influencing young people today. The rights of parents to deal with
them are being taken away and the shrinks are filling the kids full of
pills to combat the problems.

Old fashioned, but I don't remember any of these things being a big
issue in the days before electronic social media and cell phones that
have, in many cases, replaced real, human to human interaction. It
seems to me that young people have become numb to real emotions and
dealings with others. Plus, parents in my generation were allowed to be
parents without the constant pressure of shrinks and "experts" telling
them their kid's are all screwed up.

I think you answered your own question.