On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:59:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


I blame computer games for some of the ADD/ADHD issues. Computer games have the kids
minds going at warp speed. They get used to it. Then they have to face a math
teacher, or English, or whatever, who is moving at normal speed. The rest of life is
moving at normal speed. If they spend hours a day, literally, with warp speed games,
how can they be expected to appreciate the slooooooness of daily life.

My two cents. I did deal with a lot of kids though!


Makes sense to me. For the most part people are what they are
conditioned to be. I think an added problem is the graphic nature
of some of the games that serves to desensitize young people to blood,
guts and death. Some of them are horrific, IMO, depicting a guy's head
being blown off with blood splattering everywhere. If young kids are
sitting around playing these games or interacting with someone by
texting on a cell phone and artificially replacing body language with
"emoticons", it's no wonder they have a hard time relating to being normal.

But, it's great business for shrinks.



A lot of the ADD in kids is just a kid who is too smart for the dumbed
down school system. When they are bored, they get diagnosed as ADD and
the school system wants them to be drugged into stupidity so they fit
in.
Another problem is a lack of physical activity in kids. In that regard
John may be right on with the video game thing. If kids are not out
running around they end up with a lot of pent up energy.
It is not as much the game but what they are not doing with their
body.
Do they really even have "recess" anymore? I am sure the nanny state
has taken out all of the actual exercise equipment like the monkey
bars and the horizontal ladders.

This is another case where my idea of a video game connected to a real
exercise machine might end up being the best of both worlds. I am not
talking about that stupid WII where you are just waving your arm
around, I mean something like a bow flex, a ramp adjusting treadmill
or a real rowing machine.

On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 10:55:23 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
wrote:

And what's the difference between someone who
thinks the neighbor's dog told them to do something and an invisible being
in the sky?

The invisible being in the sky doesn't tell you to shoot people ...
unless you are a muslim.

On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:59:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 10/8/2015 11:23 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 09:56:34 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 10/8/2015 9:07 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 07:53:17 -0400, John H.
wrote:

"There are no tests to identify the mental psychopathy which would cause the
behavior. Furthermore, young people are very good at hiding facts about themselves.
For example, look at how many parents are surprised when their sons or daughters
'come out of the closet'." (Or words to that effect.)

That would take the wind out of the sails (boating related) of those wanting 'mental
tests' for a gun permit.

===

It's a difficult problem with no easy answers. There's clearly a
mental health issue with all of these shooters. The problem, as you
point out, is trying to identify the warning signals in advance.

It's interesting to note the paralells between the Connecticut shooter
and the Oregon shooter. Both had mothers with serious gun
collections. Both mothers knew their sons had emotional issues but
let them have access to guns anyway and encouraged their interest.
Perhaps it's time to hold parents accountable in some of these
situations. It's easy to argue that they've suffered enough already
but there has to be some penalty for this kind of irresponsible
parenting.

On the parents' side, my younger daughter had 'emotional issues' after her mother
died and she had to come live with me. She wanted to live with her older sister. We
went through some troubling times, but she grew out of it. Like I used to tell
parents when I was teaching, "Adolescent behavior is rough to live with, but the kids
do outgrow it...about the time they're 26 years old." I kept the guns locked up when
the daughter was here as a kid, but I'd trust her with the key to the safe now.

I would guess more than half (maybe *many* more than half) the adolescents have
'emotional issues' of one kind or another. A large portion are ADD or ADHD. For
parents to be able to identify a disorder that might lead to shooting behavior, given
that shrinks admit they themselves can't do it, would seem a near impossibility.



We have had some very troubling events in the past 2 weeks, one related
to these issues.

First, my older son's daughter's boyfriend committed suicide Sept 30th
by shooting himself in the head with a gun. They were both JR's in high
school in SC and had been dating for several months. My granddaugher
was admitted to a mental health facility to get help
with this. Apparently her boyfriend had been depressed or had some
issues and she had been trying to help him overcome them. The
authorities sought and recovered all their text messages on their
respective cell phones.

Then, on Oct 3, in a unrelated event, my son's father-in-law passed away
from lung cancer. (He was a non-smoker, BTW.) He was diagnosed about 8
months ago and his condition deteriorated rapidly. Very hard on my
daughter-in law and on my granddaughter as they had been very close.

The mental health facility released her so she can attend her (other)
grandfather's funeral Friday. They all flew up last night and we'll
be seeing them all later today.

I don't understand how so many young kids today are being diagnosed
with depression, ADD or ADHD. Seems like that's all you hear about.
I can't help but to think that there are other social issues that
are influencing young people today. The rights of parents to deal with
them are being taken away and the shrinks are filling the kids full of
pills to combat the problems.

Old fashioned, but I don't remember any of these things being a big
issue in the days before electronic social media and cell phones that
have, in many cases, replaced real, human to human interaction. It
seems to me that young people have become numb to real emotions and
dealings with others. Plus, parents in my generation were allowed to be
parents without the constant pressure of shrinks and "experts" telling
them their kid's are all screwed up.

Sucks.


Wow. When it rains it pours. Very sorry to hear about the whole mess.

I blame computer games for some of the ADD/ADHD issues. Computer games have the kids
minds going at warp speed. They get used to it. Then they have to face a math
teacher, or English, or whatever, who is moving at normal speed. The rest of life is
moving at normal speed. If they spend hours a day, literally, with warp speed games,
how can they be expected to appreciate the slooooooness of daily life.

My two cents. I did deal with a lot of kids though!


Makes sense to me. For the most part people are what they are
conditioned to be. I think an added problem is the graphic nature
of some of the games that serves to desensitize young people to blood,
guts and death. Some of them are horrific, IMO, depicting a guy's head
being blown off with blood splattering everywhere. If young kids are
sitting around playing these games or interacting with someone by
texting on a cell phone and artificially replacing body language with
"emoticons", it's no wonder they have a hard time relating to being normal.

But, it's great business for shrinks.


--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:59:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 10/8/2015 11:23 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 09:56:34 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 10/8/2015 9:07 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 07:53:17 -0400, John H.
wrote:

"There are no tests to identify the mental psychopathy which would cause the
behavior. Furthermore, young people are very good at hiding facts about themselves.
For example, look at how many parents are surprised when their sons or daughters
'come out of the closet'." (Or words to that effect.)

That would take the wind out of the sails (boating related) of those wanting 'mental
tests' for a gun permit.

===

It's a difficult problem with no easy answers. There's clearly a
mental health issue with all of these shooters. The problem, as you
point out, is trying to identify the warning signals in advance.

It's interesting to note the paralells between the Connecticut shooter
and the Oregon shooter. Both had mothers with serious gun
collections. Both mothers knew their sons had emotional issues but
let them have access to guns anyway and encouraged their interest.
Perhaps it's time to hold parents accountable in some of these
situations. It's easy to argue that they've suffered enough already
but there has to be some penalty for this kind of irresponsible
parenting.

On the parents' side, my younger daughter had 'emotional issues' after her mother
died and she had to come live with me. She wanted to live with her older sister. We
went through some troubling times, but she grew out of it. Like I used to tell
parents when I was teaching, "Adolescent behavior is rough to live with, but the kids
do outgrow it...about the time they're 26 years old." I kept the guns locked up when
the daughter was here as a kid, but I'd trust her with the key to the safe now.

I would guess more than half (maybe *many* more than half) the adolescents have
'emotional issues' of one kind or another. A large portion are ADD or ADHD. For
parents to be able to identify a disorder that might lead to shooting behavior, given
that shrinks admit they themselves can't do it, would seem a near impossibility.



We have had some very troubling events in the past 2 weeks, one related
to these issues.

First, my older son's daughter's boyfriend committed suicide Sept 30th
by shooting himself in the head with a gun. They were both JR's in high
school in SC and had been dating for several months. My granddaugher
was admitted to a mental health facility to get help
with this. Apparently her boyfriend had been depressed or had some
issues and she had been trying to help him overcome them. The
authorities sought and recovered all their text messages on their
respective cell phones.

Then, on Oct 3, in a unrelated event, my son's father-in-law passed away
from lung cancer. (He was a non-smoker, BTW.) He was diagnosed about 8
months ago and his condition deteriorated rapidly. Very hard on my
daughter-in law and on my granddaughter as they had been very close.

The mental health facility released her so she can attend her (other)
grandfather's funeral Friday. They all flew up last night and we'll
be seeing them all later today.

I don't understand how so many young kids today are being diagnosed
with depression, ADD or ADHD. Seems like that's all you hear about.
I can't help but to think that there are other social issues that
are influencing young people today. The rights of parents to deal with
them are being taken away and the shrinks are filling the kids full of
pills to combat the problems.

Old fashioned, but I don't remember any of these things being a big
issue in the days before electronic social media and cell phones that
have, in many cases, replaced real, human to human interaction. It
seems to me that young people have become numb to real emotions and
dealings with others. Plus, parents in my generation were allowed to be
parents without the constant pressure of shrinks and "experts" telling
them their kid's are all screwed up.

Sucks.


Wow. When it rains it pours. Very sorry to hear about the whole mess.

I blame computer games for some of the ADD/ADHD issues. Computer games have the kids
minds going at warp speed. They get used to it. Then they have to face a math
teacher, or English, or whatever, who is moving at normal speed. The rest of life is
moving at normal speed. If they spend hours a day, literally, with warp speed games,
how can they be expected to appreciate the slooooooness of daily life.

My two cents. I did deal with a lot of kids though!


Makes sense to me. For the most part people are what they are
conditioned to be. I think an added problem is the graphic nature
of some of the games that serves to desensitize young people to blood,
guts and death. Some of them are horrific, IMO, depicting a guy's head
being blown off with blood splattering everywhere. If young kids are
sitting around playing these games or interacting with someone by
texting on a cell phone and artificially replacing body language with
"emoticons", it's no wonder they have a hard time relating to being normal.

But, it's great business for shrinks.


Yeah, they probably own stock in the "Killer Zombies" game companies.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 10:55:23 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote:

John H. wrote:

"There are no tests to identify the mental psychopathy which would cause the
(shooter) behavior."

Are you certain about that? Any such testing could run afoul of our precious
First Amendment rights. When does freedom of eccentric speech qualify one
for a hold on gun purchases? And what's the difference between someone who
thinks the neighbor's dog told them to do something and an invisible being
in the sky?

The complete post was a quote from CNN, interviewing a psychiatrist.

Am I certain? No. But he seemed a knowledgeable sort, wasn't bashing Republicans, had
a 'Doctor' title, and was quite believable.

I added the rest of the sentence to your 'quote' for clarity.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 14:23:37 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:59:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


I blame computer games for some of the ADD/ADHD issues. Computer games have the kids
minds going at warp speed. They get used to it. Then they have to face a math
teacher, or English, or whatever, who is moving at normal speed. The rest of life is
moving at normal speed. If they spend hours a day, literally, with warp speed games,
how can they be expected to appreciate the slooooooness of daily life.

My two cents. I did deal with a lot of kids though!


Makes sense to me. For the most part people are what they are
conditioned to be. I think an added problem is the graphic nature
of some of the games that serves to desensitize young people to blood,
guts and death. Some of them are horrific, IMO, depicting a guy's head
being blown off with blood splattering everywhere. If young kids are
sitting around playing these games or interacting with someone by
texting on a cell phone and artificially replacing body language with
"emoticons", it's no wonder they have a hard time relating to being normal.

But, it's great business for shrinks.



A lot of the ADD in kids is just a kid who is too smart for the dumbed
down school system. When they are bored, they get diagnosed as ADD and
the school system wants them to be drugged into stupidity so they fit
in.
Another problem is a lack of physical activity in kids. In that regard
John may be right on with the video game thing. If kids are not out
running around they end up with a lot of pent up energy.
It is not as much the game but what they are not doing with their
body.
Do they really even have "recess" anymore? I am sure the nanny state
has taken out all of the actual exercise equipment like the monkey
bars and the horizontal ladders.

This is another case where my idea of a video game connected to a real
exercise machine might end up being the best of both worlds. I am not
talking about that stupid WII where you are just waving your arm
around, I mean something like a bow flex, a ramp adjusting treadmill
or a real rowing machine.


*That* is a good idea. The kid wants a video game he must maintain a pace on a
treadmill. Treadmill slows down or stops, the video shuts off. I like it.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 15:26:48 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 14:23:37 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:59:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


I blame computer games for some of the ADD/ADHD issues. Computer games have the kids
minds going at warp speed. They get used to it. Then they have to face a math
teacher, or English, or whatever, who is moving at normal speed. The rest of life is
moving at normal speed. If they spend hours a day, literally, with warp speed games,
how can they be expected to appreciate the slooooooness of daily life.

My two cents. I did deal with a lot of kids though!


Makes sense to me. For the most part people are what they are
conditioned to be. I think an added problem is the graphic nature
of some of the games that serves to desensitize young people to blood,
guts and death. Some of them are horrific, IMO, depicting a guy's head
being blown off with blood splattering everywhere. If young kids are
sitting around playing these games or interacting with someone by
texting on a cell phone and artificially replacing body language with
"emoticons", it's no wonder they have a hard time relating to being normal.

But, it's great business for shrinks.



A lot of the ADD in kids is just a kid who is too smart for the dumbed
down school system. When they are bored, they get diagnosed as ADD and
the school system wants them to be drugged into stupidity so they fit
in.
Another problem is a lack of physical activity in kids. In that regard
John may be right on with the video game thing. If kids are not out
running around they end up with a lot of pent up energy.
It is not as much the game but what they are not doing with their
body.
Do they really even have "recess" anymore? I am sure the nanny state
has taken out all of the actual exercise equipment like the monkey
bars and the horizontal ladders.

This is another case where my idea of a video game connected to a real
exercise machine might end up being the best of both worlds. I am not
talking about that stupid WII where you are just waving your arm
around, I mean something like a bow flex, a ramp adjusting treadmill
or a real rowing machine.


*That* is a good idea. The kid wants a video game he must maintain a pace on a
treadmill. Treadmill slows down or stops, the video shuts off. I like it.

The first time I saw a Bowflex, the first thing that impressed me was
how easy it would be to put a slotted wheel emitter on the 2 main
pullets and connect them to a ball mouse card.

I screwed up because the guy who had it was using it for a laundry
rack and I could have had it for hauling it away. I would have loved
to play with that idea.
You could get a pretty good workout, just playing solitaire or reading
your mail.
Any game that you can play with a mouse would work but obviously if
you had games written for the application they would be better.

On 10/8/15 2:24 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 10:55:23 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
wrote:

And what's the difference between someone who
thinks the neighbor's dog told them to do something and an invisible being
in the sky?

The invisible being in the sky doesn't tell you to shoot people ...
unless you are a muslim.


Obviously you are not a student of history.