On 10/8/2015 10:28 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/8/15 11:16 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 10:10:53 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 10/8/15 9:56 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/8/2015 9:07 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400,

First, my older son's daughter's boyfriend committed suicide Sept 30th
by shooting himself in the head with a gun. They were both JR's in
high
school in SC and had been dating for several months. My granddaugher
was admitted to a mental health facility to get help
with this. Apparently her boyfriend had been depressed or had some
issues and she had been trying to help him overcome them. The
authorities sought and recovered all their text messages on their
respective cell phones.


Were the young man's parents "helping" him find ways to deal with his
depression? Was he in counseling? Who diagnosed him as being
"depressed"? Was the firearm he used in the possession of his parents?
If so, why wasn't it kept locked up, especially if the family had a kid
suffering from depression?


Typical judgemental bull**** from our chronic liar. Learn to overcome
your problem
before passing judgment.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!


D'oh. Those are the sorts of questions that need to be asked and
answered, **** for brains. There's nothing in the original post to
indicate the boy who committed suicide was getting "help" from anyone
other than his girlfriend. "...depressed or had some issues..." is a tad
amorphous.

Stick to what you know...you know, resolving issues with Windoze.

The biggest asset you gave your kids was divorcing them and their mother.

On 10/8/2015 10:39 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 10:10:53 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 10/8/15 9:56 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/8/2015 9:07 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400,

First, my older son's daughter's boyfriend committed suicide Sept 30th
by shooting himself in the head with a gun. They were both JR's in high
school in SC and had been dating for several months. My granddaugher
was admitted to a mental health facility to get help
with this. Apparently her boyfriend had been depressed or had some
issues and she had been trying to help him overcome them. The
authorities sought and recovered all their text messages on their
respective cell phones.


Were the young man's parents "helping" him find ways to deal with his
depression? Was he in counseling? Who diagnosed him as being
"depressed"? Was the firearm he used in the possession of his parents?
If so, why wasn't it kept locked up, especially if the family had a kid
suffering from depression?


My nephew was suffering from depression and the family went out of
their way to rid the house of anything dangerous that they could think
of. He hanged himself from a tree.,



I have some very strong feelings and opinions about what is going on
now-a-days related to so called "mental health" issues and other
influences on young people today. Probably better that I keep them to
myself rather than start a freakin' newsgroup battle.


For Harry:

I don't know the answers to your questions. I don't know the poor kid
or his family.

That said, his story and many like it are becoming far too familiar.
Almost "faddish" in a way. Something is seriously missing in many homes
and family relationships today. Pills and "counseling" seem to be
replacing common sense parenting. Sad and frustrating.

On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 10:10:53 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 10/8/15 9:56 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/8/2015 9:07 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400,

First, my older son's daughter's boyfriend committed suicide Sept 30th
by shooting himself in the head with a gun. They were both JR's in high
school in SC and had been dating for several months. My granddaugher
was admitted to a mental health facility to get help
with this. Apparently her boyfriend had been depressed or had some
issues and she had been trying to help him overcome them. The
authorities sought and recovered all their text messages on their
respective cell phones.


Were the young man's parents "helping" him find ways to deal with his
depression? Was he in counseling? Who diagnosed him as being
"depressed"? Was the firearm he used in the possession of his parents?
If so, why wasn't it kept locked up, especially if the family had a kid
suffering from depression?


Typical judgemental bull**** from our chronic liar. Learn to overcome your problem
before passing judgment.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 09:56:34 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 10/8/2015 9:07 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 07:53:17 -0400, John H.
wrote:

"There are no tests to identify the mental psychopathy which would cause the
behavior. Furthermore, young people are very good at hiding facts about themselves.
For example, look at how many parents are surprised when their sons or daughters
'come out of the closet'." (Or words to that effect.)

That would take the wind out of the sails (boating related) of those wanting 'mental
tests' for a gun permit.

===

It's a difficult problem with no easy answers. There's clearly a
mental health issue with all of these shooters. The problem, as you
point out, is trying to identify the warning signals in advance.

It's interesting to note the paralells between the Connecticut shooter
and the Oregon shooter. Both had mothers with serious gun
collections. Both mothers knew their sons had emotional issues but
let them have access to guns anyway and encouraged their interest.
Perhaps it's time to hold parents accountable in some of these
situations. It's easy to argue that they've suffered enough already
but there has to be some penalty for this kind of irresponsible
parenting.

On the parents' side, my younger daughter had 'emotional issues' after her mother
died and she had to come live with me. She wanted to live with her older sister. We
went through some troubling times, but she grew out of it. Like I used to tell
parents when I was teaching, "Adolescent behavior is rough to live with, but the kids
do outgrow it...about the time they're 26 years old." I kept the guns locked up when
the daughter was here as a kid, but I'd trust her with the key to the safe now.

I would guess more than half (maybe *many* more than half) the adolescents have
'emotional issues' of one kind or another. A large portion are ADD or ADHD. For
parents to be able to identify a disorder that might lead to shooting behavior, given
that shrinks admit they themselves can't do it, would seem a near impossibility.



We have had some very troubling events in the past 2 weeks, one related
to these issues.

First, my older son's daughter's boyfriend committed suicide Sept 30th
by shooting himself in the head with a gun. They were both JR's in high
school in SC and had been dating for several months. My granddaugher
was admitted to a mental health facility to get help
with this. Apparently her boyfriend had been depressed or had some
issues and she had been trying to help him overcome them. The
authorities sought and recovered all their text messages on their
respective cell phones.

Then, on Oct 3, in a unrelated event, my son's father-in-law passed away
from lung cancer. (He was a non-smoker, BTW.) He was diagnosed about 8
months ago and his condition deteriorated rapidly. Very hard on my
daughter-in law and on my granddaughter as they had been very close.

The mental health facility released her so she can attend her (other)
grandfather's funeral Friday. They all flew up last night and we'll
be seeing them all later today.

I don't understand how so many young kids today are being diagnosed
with depression, ADD or ADHD. Seems like that's all you hear about.
I can't help but to think that there are other social issues that
are influencing young people today. The rights of parents to deal with
them are being taken away and the shrinks are filling the kids full of
pills to combat the problems.

Old fashioned, but I don't remember any of these things being a big
issue in the days before electronic social media and cell phones that
have, in many cases, replaced real, human to human interaction. It
seems to me that young people have become numb to real emotions and
dealings with others. Plus, parents in my generation were allowed to be
parents without the constant pressure of shrinks and "experts" telling
them their kid's are all screwed up.

Sucks.


Wow. When it rains it pours. Very sorry to hear about the whole mess.

I blame computer games for some of the ADD/ADHD issues. Computer games have the kids
minds going at warp speed. They get used to it. Then they have to face a math
teacher, or English, or whatever, who is moving at normal speed. The rest of life is
moving at normal speed. If they spend hours a day, literally, with warp speed games,
how can they be expected to appreciate the slooooooness of daily life.

My two cents. I did deal with a lot of kids though!
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On 10/8/15 11:16 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 10:10:53 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 10/8/15 9:56 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/8/2015 9:07 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400,

First, my older son's daughter's boyfriend committed suicide Sept 30th
by shooting himself in the head with a gun. They were both JR's in high
school in SC and had been dating for several months. My granddaugher
was admitted to a mental health facility to get help
with this. Apparently her boyfriend had been depressed or had some
issues and she had been trying to help him overcome them. The
authorities sought and recovered all their text messages on their
respective cell phones.


Were the young man's parents "helping" him find ways to deal with his
depression? Was he in counseling? Who diagnosed him as being
"depressed"? Was the firearm he used in the possession of his parents?
If so, why wasn't it kept locked up, especially if the family had a kid
suffering from depression?


Typical judgemental bull**** from our chronic liar. Learn to overcome your problem
before passing judgment.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!


D'oh. Those are the sorts of questions that need to be asked and
answered, **** for brains. There's nothing in the original post to
indicate the boy who committed suicide was getting "help" from anyone
other than his girlfriend. "...depressed or had some issues..." is a tad
amorphous.

Stick to what you know...you know, resolving issues with Windoze.

On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 11:08:08 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/8/2015 10:39 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 10:10:53 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 10/8/15 9:56 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/8/2015 9:07 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400,

First, my older son's daughter's boyfriend committed suicide Sept 30th
by shooting himself in the head with a gun. They were both JR's in high
school in SC and had been dating for several months. My granddaugher
was admitted to a mental health facility to get help
with this. Apparently her boyfriend had been depressed or had some
issues and she had been trying to help him overcome them. The
authorities sought and recovered all their text messages on their
respective cell phones.


Were the young man's parents "helping" him find ways to deal with his
depression? Was he in counseling? Who diagnosed him as being
"depressed"? Was the firearm he used in the possession of his parents?
If so, why wasn't it kept locked up, especially if the family had a kid
suffering from depression?


My nephew was suffering from depression and the family went out of
their way to rid the house of anything dangerous that they could think
of. He hanged himself from a tree.,



I have some very strong feelings and opinions about what is going on
now-a-days related to so called "mental health" issues and other
influences on young people today. Probably better that I keep them to
myself rather than start a freakin' newsgroup battle.


For Harry:

I don't know the answers to your questions. I don't know the poor kid
or his family.

That said, his story and many like it are becoming far too familiar.
Almost "faddish" in a way. Something is seriously missing in many homes
and family relationships today. Pills and "counseling" seem to be
replacing common sense parenting. Sad and frustrating.


The current thinking seems to be that there is a pill for everything
and I agree that when you get the drug cocktail dialed in, people do
seem to be "better" but the operative word there is really "seem". It
is not a cure, it is simply masking the symptoms. They also have to
monitor and adjust the cocktail fairly regularly.
That usually means increasing the dose or switching to a stronger
drug. This is just an addiction at a certain point because it is worse
when the drugs are withdrawn than it was when they started.
Unfortunately the patient is usually the one who decides they don't
want the drugs anymore. They would rather be a little nutty than to be
drugged up all the time. The most common outcome is they end up
homeless, in prison or dead. A lot of times, all 3 in fairly short
order.
The ones who avoid professional help usually end up self medicating
with alcohol and street drugs.

I have seen estimates that far more than half of the chronically
homeless people in the us have serious mental issues.

On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 11:28:53 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 10/8/15 11:16 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 10:10:53 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 10/8/15 9:56 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/8/2015 9:07 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400,

First, my older son's daughter's boyfriend committed suicide Sept 30th
by shooting himself in the head with a gun. They were both JR's in high
school in SC and had been dating for several months. My granddaugher
was admitted to a mental health facility to get help
with this. Apparently her boyfriend had been depressed or had some
issues and she had been trying to help him overcome them. The
authorities sought and recovered all their text messages on their
respective cell phones.


Were the young man's parents "helping" him find ways to deal with his
depression? Was he in counseling? Who diagnosed him as being
"depressed"? Was the firearm he used in the possession of his parents?
If so, why wasn't it kept locked up, especially if the family had a kid
suffering from depression?


Typical judgemental bull**** from our chronic liar. Learn to overcome your problem
before passing judgment.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!


D'oh. Those are the sorts of questions that need to be asked and
answered, **** for brains. There's nothing in the original post to
indicate the boy who committed suicide was getting "help" from anyone
other than his girlfriend. "...depressed or had some issues..." is a tad
amorphous.

Stick to what you know...you know, resolving issues with Windoze.

Perhaps it's none of your ****ing business, just like your Vietnam 'soiree' is 'none
of mine'.

Liar.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 09:44:02 -0500, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 10/8/2015 10:28 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/8/15 11:16 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 10:10:53 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 10/8/15 9:56 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/8/2015 9:07 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400,

First, my older son's daughter's boyfriend committed suicide Sept 30th
by shooting himself in the head with a gun. They were both JR's in
high
school in SC and had been dating for several months. My granddaugher
was admitted to a mental health facility to get help
with this. Apparently her boyfriend had been depressed or had some
issues and she had been trying to help him overcome them. The
authorities sought and recovered all their text messages on their
respective cell phones.


Were the young man's parents "helping" him find ways to deal with his
depression? Was he in counseling? Who diagnosed him as being
"depressed"? Was the firearm he used in the possession of his parents?
If so, why wasn't it kept locked up, especially if the family had a kid
suffering from depression?


Typical judgemental bull**** from our chronic liar. Learn to overcome
your problem
before passing judgment.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!


D'oh. Those are the sorts of questions that need to be asked and
answered, **** for brains. There's nothing in the original post to
indicate the boy who committed suicide was getting "help" from anyone
other than his girlfriend. "...depressed or had some issues..." is a tad
amorphous.

Stick to what you know...you know, resolving issues with Windoze.

The biggest asset you gave your kids was divorcing them and their mother.

That's the damn truth.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On 10/8/2015 11:23 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 8 Oct 2015 09:56:34 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 10/8/2015 9:07 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:45:07 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 07:53:17 -0400, John H.
wrote:

"There are no tests to identify the mental psychopathy which would cause the
behavior. Furthermore, young people are very good at hiding facts about themselves.
For example, look at how many parents are surprised when their sons or daughters
'come out of the closet'." (Or words to that effect.)

That would take the wind out of the sails (boating related) of those wanting 'mental
tests' for a gun permit.

===

It's a difficult problem with no easy answers. There's clearly a
mental health issue with all of these shooters. The problem, as you
point out, is trying to identify the warning signals in advance.

It's interesting to note the paralells between the Connecticut shooter
and the Oregon shooter. Both had mothers with serious gun
collections. Both mothers knew their sons had emotional issues but
let them have access to guns anyway and encouraged their interest.
Perhaps it's time to hold parents accountable in some of these
situations. It's easy to argue that they've suffered enough already
but there has to be some penalty for this kind of irresponsible
parenting.

On the parents' side, my younger daughter had 'emotional issues' after her mother
died and she had to come live with me. She wanted to live with her older sister. We
went through some troubling times, but she grew out of it. Like I used to tell
parents when I was teaching, "Adolescent behavior is rough to live with, but the kids
do outgrow it...about the time they're 26 years old." I kept the guns locked up when
the daughter was here as a kid, but I'd trust her with the key to the safe now.

I would guess more than half (maybe *many* more than half) the adolescents have
'emotional issues' of one kind or another. A large portion are ADD or ADHD. For
parents to be able to identify a disorder that might lead to shooting behavior, given
that shrinks admit they themselves can't do it, would seem a near impossibility.



We have had some very troubling events in the past 2 weeks, one related
to these issues.

First, my older son's daughter's boyfriend committed suicide Sept 30th
by shooting himself in the head with a gun. They were both JR's in high
school in SC and had been dating for several months. My granddaugher
was admitted to a mental health facility to get help
with this. Apparently her boyfriend had been depressed or had some
issues and she had been trying to help him overcome them. The
authorities sought and recovered all their text messages on their
respective cell phones.

Then, on Oct 3, in a unrelated event, my son's father-in-law passed away
from lung cancer. (He was a non-smoker, BTW.) He was diagnosed about 8
months ago and his condition deteriorated rapidly. Very hard on my
daughter-in law and on my granddaughter as they had been very close.

The mental health facility released her so she can attend her (other)
grandfather's funeral Friday. They all flew up last night and we'll
be seeing them all later today.

I don't understand how so many young kids today are being diagnosed
with depression, ADD or ADHD. Seems like that's all you hear about.
I can't help but to think that there are other social issues that
are influencing young people today. The rights of parents to deal with
them are being taken away and the shrinks are filling the kids full of
pills to combat the problems.

Old fashioned, but I don't remember any of these things being a big
issue in the days before electronic social media and cell phones that
have, in many cases, replaced real, human to human interaction. It
seems to me that young people have become numb to real emotions and
dealings with others. Plus, parents in my generation were allowed to be
parents without the constant pressure of shrinks and "experts" telling
them their kid's are all screwed up.

Sucks.


Wow. When it rains it pours. Very sorry to hear about the whole mess.

I blame computer games for some of the ADD/ADHD issues. Computer games have the kids
minds going at warp speed. They get used to it. Then they have to face a math
teacher, or English, or whatever, who is moving at normal speed. The rest of life is
moving at normal speed. If they spend hours a day, literally, with warp speed games,
how can they be expected to appreciate the slooooooness of daily life.

My two cents. I did deal with a lot of kids though!


Makes sense to me. For the most part people are what they are
conditioned to be. I think an added problem is the graphic nature
of some of the games that serves to desensitize young people to blood,
guts and death. Some of them are horrific, IMO, depicting a guy's head
being blown off with blood splattering everywhere. If young kids are
sitting around playing these games or interacting with someone by
texting on a cell phone and artificially replacing body language with
"emoticons", it's no wonder they have a hard time relating to being normal.

But, it's great business for shrinks.

John H. wrote:

"There are no tests

Are you certain about that? Any such testing could run afoul of our precious
First Amendment rights. When does freedom of eccentric speech qualify one
for a hold on gun purchases? And what's the difference between someone who
thinks the neighbor's dog told them to do something and an invisible being
in the sky?


--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
RAM disk is *not* an installation procedure.