On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 11:12:15 -0800, jps wrote:

Nope, but attacking a cop in his car just may get one shot.

Yup, six times. Now I'm hearing that the final kill shot was from 150
feet away.

===

Nonsense.

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:59:47 -0800, jps wrote:

The cop was a complete dick. The kid lost his cool, the cop ****ed up
the altercation in a big way. Didn't call for backup, jumped out of
his car and began shooting even though Brown was fleeing.

===

More nonsense. Brown was not shot in the back, not even once.

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 14:28:55 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:59:47 -0800, jps wrote:

The cop was a complete dick. The kid lost his cool, the cop ****ed up
the altercation in a big way. Didn't call for backup, jumped out of
his car and began shooting even though Brown was fleeing.

===

More nonsense. Brown was not shot in the back, not even once.

Why let truth get in the way of a good agenda?
--

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who's winning an argument
with a liberal."

....Peter Brimelow (Author)
(Thanks, Luddite!)

On 12/2/2014 2:25 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 13:35:36 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Stealing a box of cigars and shoving the proprietor doesn't justify
getting killed.

===

That is not what got him killed and I think you know that.

What got him killed was trying to grab the cops gun. That is
tantanount to attempted murder and no cop of any color will let that
stand.



I agree if that's what happened. I just don't know what happened
afterwards for sure and neither does anyone else it seems.

My guess is that it initially went down the way the GJ determined it
went and Wilson was justified in at least the first couple of shots
fired. After that the story gets less certain.

As I understand it, the law requires every shot to be justified in a
deadly force situation. Wilson fired off something like 12 total shots.
Were all of them justified and which one killed Brown?

We'll never know for sure. A secret GJ decided.

On 12/2/2014 2:37 PM, Poco Loco wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 14:28:55 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:59:47 -0800, jps wrote:

The cop was a complete dick. The kid lost his cool, the cop ****ed up
the altercation in a big way. Didn't call for backup, jumped out of
his car and began shooting even though Brown was fleeing.

===

More nonsense. Brown was not shot in the back, not even once.

Why let truth get in the way of a good agenda?


I remember serving as a juror in a homicide trial years ago. The
evidence presented by the prosecution during the trial was very
convincing and the defense was weak, to be sure.

When we were finally charged by the judge and retired for deliberations
I remember the jury foreman stating right away that the guy's guilt was
obvious and beyond question and he didn't see any need for prolonged
discussion. He wanted to vote right away, return a guilty verdict and
go home. He asked if everyone agreed. The majority of us didn't agree
and told him that we owed the defendant some discussion of the evidence
before returning a verdict. He was ****ed but had no choice but to
cooperate.

In the end the defendent was found guilty but at least he had a fair trial.

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 14:42:01 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/2/2014 2:25 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 13:35:36 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Stealing a box of cigars and shoving the proprietor doesn't justify
getting killed.

===

That is not what got him killed and I think you know that.

What got him killed was trying to grab the cops gun. That is
tantanount to attempted murder and no cop of any color will let that
stand.



I agree if that's what happened. I just don't know what happened
afterwards for sure and neither does anyone else it seems.

My guess is that it initially went down the way the GJ determined it
went and Wilson was justified in at least the first couple of shots
fired. After that the story gets less certain.

As I understand it, the law requires every shot to be justified in a
deadly force situation. Wilson fired off something like 12 total shots.
Were all of them justified and which one killed Brown?

We'll never know for sure. A secret GJ decided.


If I were defending myself, the justification would be, "Is the guy
down? No? Next shot."

I'm thinking a cop would not do a complete analysis of the scenario
before each round. Do you really think such would be required?

--

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who's winning an argument
with a liberal."

....Peter Brimelow (Author)
(Thanks, Luddite!)

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 14:25:45 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 13:35:36 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Stealing a box of cigars and shoving the proprietor doesn't justify
getting killed.

===

That is not what got him killed and I think you know that.

What got him killed was trying to grab the cops gun. That is
tantanount to attempted murder and no cop of any color will let that
stand.

That's ego talking, which is exactly why the cop should stand trial
for murder. You cannot take a life because it satisfies your ego.

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 14:17:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/2/2014 1:59 PM, jps wrote:
On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 13:17:17 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/2/2014 12:51 PM, Califbill wrote:
jps wrote:
On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 08:19:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Kathy Alizadeh is the Assistant Prosecuting Attorney who handled the
evidence presented to the Wilson Grand Jury.

At the beginning of the deliberations she handed out copies of the
Missouri statue that covers the conditions under which a police
officer can use deadly force for the juror's to consider. (The statute
is very favorable to the police and to Wilson.)

Turns out the statute she handed out for the juror's benefit was
written in 1979 and had been declared unconstitutional by the US Supreme
Court in 1985. She didn't bother correcting this "error" until near the
end of the deliberations when she handed out the "correct" statute.
She allowed the jurors to listen to all the testimony and evidence using
the 1979 statute as a guide for how police can respond.

Here is what she told the jurors:

?Previously in the very beginning of this process I printed out a
statute for you that was, the statute in Missouri for the use of force
to affect an arrest. So if you all want to get those out. What we have
discovered and we have been going along with this, doing our research,
is that the statute in the state of Missouri does not comply with the
case law. This doesn?t sound probably unfamiliar with you that the law
is codified in the written form in the books and they?re called
statutes, but courts interpret those statutes.
And so the statute for the use of force to affect an arrest in the state
of Missouri does not comply with Missouri supreme, I?m sorry, United
States supreme court cases.
So the statue I gave you, if you want to fold that in half just so that
you know don?t necessarily rely on that because there is a portion of
that that doesn?t comply with the law.?


She never explained to the jurors what the differences were in the two
documents. A juror asked if a Federal Court finding overrules the
original State statute.

Alizadeh's response to the juror's question:

?As far as you need to know, just don?t worry about that.?

Southern justice. This was a screw job from the start.

BS. You saw video of the "nice boy" using his bulk to strong arm a
shopkeeper shortly before. I doubt it was Mr. Brown's first robbery. And
even if it was, it proves he thought bulk got him what he desired. And
witnesses, black ones, stated Mr. brown attacked the cop. Interesting,
when in Santa Monica for Thanksgiving, a Black Guy at church complained
that Wilson should not be hassling a couple kids for walking down the
yellow line. They hassled us white kids for doing stupid stuff like that
also.



Now you are getting to the heart of the controversy. How many of you
"white kids" ended up getting shot for doing stupid stuff?

Further, there is video showing Brown paying for the cigars at the
counter and the owners of the market have confirmed the same. They
didn't call the police and insist there was no robbery.

The cop was a complete dick. The kid lost his cool, the cop ****ed up
the altercation in a big way. Didn't call for backup, jumped out of
his car and began shooting even though Brown was fleeing.

This guy is going to get sued, as is the town.

The prosecutor is a whole other kettle of fish. That asshole deserves
to be disbarred.



This video you speak of is news to me. The one I have seen (as have
just about everyone with interest) showed some kind of altercation
at the counter after Brown reached over and grabbed what I assume are
the cigars and then Brown shoving the proprietor around as he was
leaving the store. He also stopped and returned briefly seeming to be
intimidating the proprietor.

Plus, I believe the robbery *was* reported and sent out on the police
communications network. Seems like that could be very easily disproved
if not true.

Where did you see or find the info about this alternate video and story?


It's been out there since mid-August. Drowned out by misinformation.

Attorney for the market owners confirms that his client didn't call
the police and that Mike Brown paid for the cigars.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/0...r-those-cigars

On 12/2/2014 2:28 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:59:47 -0800, jps wrote:

The cop was a complete dick. The kid lost his cool, the cop ****ed up
the altercation in a big way. Didn't call for backup, jumped out of
his car and began shooting even though Brown was fleeing.

===

More nonsense. Brown was not shot in the back, not even once.


The whole "he should have stayed in the car" **** is hilarious... A cop
is trained and it's his job to protect, there would be no justification
to let a violent felon who had just tried to kill an officer walk down
the street and maybe get a hostage or worse.

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 12:07:56 -0800, jps wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 14:17:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/2/2014 1:59 PM, jps wrote:
On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 13:17:17 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/2/2014 12:51 PM, Califbill wrote:
jps wrote:
On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 08:19:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Kathy Alizadeh is the Assistant Prosecuting Attorney who handled the
evidence presented to the Wilson Grand Jury.

At the beginning of the deliberations she handed out copies of the
Missouri statue that covers the conditions under which a police
officer can use deadly force for the juror's to consider. (The statute
is very favorable to the police and to Wilson.)

Turns out the statute she handed out for the juror's benefit was
written in 1979 and had been declared unconstitutional by the US Supreme
Court in 1985. She didn't bother correcting this "error" until near the
end of the deliberations when she handed out the "correct" statute.
She allowed the jurors to listen to all the testimony and evidence using
the 1979 statute as a guide for how police can respond.

Here is what she told the jurors:

?Previously in the very beginning of this process I printed out a
statute for you that was, the statute in Missouri for the use of force
to affect an arrest. So if you all want to get those out. What we have
discovered and we have been going along with this, doing our research,
is that the statute in the state of Missouri does not comply with the
case law. This doesn?t sound probably unfamiliar with you that the law
is codified in the written form in the books and they?re called
statutes, but courts interpret those statutes.
And so the statute for the use of force to affect an arrest in the state
of Missouri does not comply with Missouri supreme, I?m sorry, United
States supreme court cases.
So the statue I gave you, if you want to fold that in half just so that
you know don?t necessarily rely on that because there is a portion of
that that doesn?t comply with the law.?


She never explained to the jurors what the differences were in the two
documents. A juror asked if a Federal Court finding overrules the
original State statute.

Alizadeh's response to the juror's question:

?As far as you need to know, just don?t worry about that.?

Southern justice. This was a screw job from the start.

BS. You saw video of the "nice boy" using his bulk to strong arm a
shopkeeper shortly before. I doubt it was Mr. Brown's first robbery. And
even if it was, it proves he thought bulk got him what he desired. And
witnesses, black ones, stated Mr. brown attacked the cop. Interesting,
when in Santa Monica for Thanksgiving, a Black Guy at church complained
that Wilson should not be hassling a couple kids for walking down the
yellow line. They hassled us white kids for doing stupid stuff like that
also.



Now you are getting to the heart of the controversy. How many of you
"white kids" ended up getting shot for doing stupid stuff?

Further, there is video showing Brown paying for the cigars at the
counter and the owners of the market have confirmed the same. They
didn't call the police and insist there was no robbery.

The cop was a complete dick. The kid lost his cool, the cop ****ed up
the altercation in a big way. Didn't call for backup, jumped out of
his car and began shooting even though Brown was fleeing.

This guy is going to get sued, as is the town.

The prosecutor is a whole other kettle of fish. That asshole deserves
to be disbarred.



This video you speak of is news to me. The one I have seen (as have
just about everyone with interest) showed some kind of altercation
at the counter after Brown reached over and grabbed what I assume are
the cigars and then Brown shoving the proprietor around as he was
leaving the store. He also stopped and returned briefly seeming to be
intimidating the proprietor.

Plus, I believe the robbery *was* reported and sent out on the police
communications network. Seems like that could be very easily disproved
if not true.

Where did you see or find the info about this alternate video and story?


It's been out there since mid-August. Drowned out by misinformation.

Attorney for the market owners confirms that his client didn't call
the police and that Mike Brown paid for the cigars.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/0...r-those-cigars


Of course, the Daily Caller, Fox News and a hundred other right wing
news outlets only showed the footage from the doorway. They never
questioned their own assertion that Mike Brown committed "strong arm
robbery" at the store.

They have an agenda and if the truth contradicts that agenda, they're
certainly not going to volunteer the truth.

Read the Crooks & Liars report, it has a ring of truth to it. He
didn't have enough money to pay for all he wanted, ended up returning
what he couldn't afford to buy but the owner checked him on the way
out to be sure.

He probably took offense, as anyone would.

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/08/fe...deo-seems-show