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F*O*A*D

On 11/14/14 11:05 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 06:40:07 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 11/14/14 1:31 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:22:50 -0800, jps wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:43:46 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:40:01 -0800, jps wrote:

Thank you for stepping out and making your thoughts known about gun
control. You make a reasoned argument for common sense law.

You didn't notice that his argument was based on a CNN show that
demonstrated that if you tried, you could find someone to break the
law. Would 2 laws have stopped them? Three?

If someone wants to break the law, there's little stopping them.
Please cite one law on the books that prevents a determined person
from breaking it.

Holy crap. Where do you come up with these empty arguments?

NRA pamphlet?

Laws are meant to let people know where the line is. If they cross
it, they're liable to be prosecuted and put in jail or fined silly.
How would prosecuting someone for lying on a background check or
failing to sell a gun through a proper process be any different than
any other law?

Come on, try to field a real argument, please.

I am simply saying, the justification Richard was trying to make was
the "gun show loophole" but the loophole did not exist in the cases he
was citing. Every gun they bought was already illegal under both state
and federal law. Then they broke another federal law when they crossed
state lines with them.
Does anyone believe one more law would stop them?

It is like showing someone buying crack on the street and saying we
need another drug law.

I think you missed the point of Luddite's posit entirely. The point is
that firearms are being sold at gun shows sans even the instant
background checks, especially but not only by individuals who are not
FFLs. It has been demonstrated many times that Virginia, in particular,
a "gunshow loophole state," has numerous individuals selling firearms to
other individuals at gunshows and at other venues without bothering with
any background checks.

In another of his posts, he had a statistic that said less than 1% of
the guns used in crimes came from gun shows.

You keep talking about Virginia but you can't legally buy a gun in
Virginia and that was the law the CNN crew continuously tried to break
and after looking for 2 days in 4 states, they finally found 3 people
willing to break it.

I have not been to a gun show in over a decade that did not have a
free background check booth.

You're just so hung up on your never-ending silliness about the way you
argue, you can't see the forest for the trees.

Yeah those facts keep getting in the way

But, no worries. After all, your position on just about everything is
that "nothing can be done about anything, so why have laws, rules,
codes?" Right?

It is as valid as your idea that the problems of the world would be
solved with a little bit bigger government and a few more laws.

I could attend a Virginia gun show, find an individual (not a licensed
dealer) selling firearms, and buy one from him at the show without him
doing any background check, because such is legal in Virginia. Now,
being an out of stater, we'd both be in violation of the law,
but...there's no enforcement. You are grasping at straws.

--
Just because you are opposed to abortion doesn’t make you pro-life. Your
morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a
child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed, not a child
clothed, not a child able to see the doctor. That’s not pro-life…that’s
pro-birth.

Mr. Luddite

On 11/14/14 11:05 AM, wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 06:40:07 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

I think you missed the point of Luddite's posit entirely. The point is
that firearms are being sold at gun shows sans even the instant
background checks, especially but not only by individuals who are not
FFLs. It has been demonstrated many times that Virginia, in particular,
a "gunshow loophole state," has numerous individuals selling firearms to
other individuals at gunshows and at other venues without bothering with
any background checks.

In another of his posts, he had a statistic that said less than 1% of
the guns used in crimes came from gun shows.

I don't know for a fact but I suspect that 1% number refers to
*reported* gun show sales by a FFL. It's the only way the data could
have been documented.

I don't think it includes "no questions asked" private sales at gun
shows. How could it if there are no records?

KC

On 11/14/2014 11:29 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

On 11/14/14 11:05 AM, wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 06:40:07 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

I think you missed the point of Luddite's posit entirely. The point is
that firearms are being sold at gun shows sans even the instant
background checks, especially but not only by individuals who are not
FFLs. It has been demonstrated many times that Virginia, in particular,
a "gunshow loophole state," has numerous individuals selling
firearms to
other individuals at gunshows and at other venues without bothering
with
any background checks.

In another of his posts, he had a statistic that said less than 1% of
the guns used in crimes came from gun shows.

I don't know for a fact but I suspect that 1% number refers to
*reported* gun show sales by a FFL. It's the only way the data could
have been documented.

I don't think it includes "no questions asked" private sales at gun
shows. How could it if there are no records?

Well, if that's the case then "no questions asked" in the context of
this discussion is only a hypothetical too?

Mr. Luddite

On 11/14/2014 11:41 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/14/2014 11:29 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

On 11/14/14 11:05 AM, wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 06:40:07 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

I think you missed the point of Luddite's posit entirely. The point is
that firearms are being sold at gun shows sans even the instant
background checks, especially but not only by individuals who are not
FFLs. It has been demonstrated many times that Virginia, in
particular,
a "gunshow loophole state," has numerous individuals selling
firearms to
other individuals at gunshows and at other venues without bothering
with
any background checks.

In another of his posts, he had a statistic that said less than 1% of
the guns used in crimes came from gun shows.

I don't know for a fact but I suspect that 1% number refers to
*reported* gun show sales by a FFL. It's the only way the data could
have been documented.

I don't think it includes "no questions asked" private sales at gun
shows. How could it if there are no records?

Well, if that's the case then "no questions asked" in the context of
this discussion is only a hypothetical too?

sigh

If you are referring to the CNN documentary, they showed and reported
that the sellers didn't even ask the buyer's name let alone any ID. You
can believe that or not believe it, but that's what they reported.

Probably easier for you to just declare the report as being a made-up
hoax like Greg and it will satisfy you.

KC

On 11/14/2014 1:40 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/14/2014 11:41 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/14/2014 11:29 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

On 11/14/14 11:05 AM, wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 06:40:07 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

I think you missed the point of Luddite's posit entirely. The
point is
that firearms are being sold at gun shows sans even the instant
background checks, especially but not only by individuals who are not
FFLs. It has been demonstrated many times that Virginia, in
particular,
a "gunshow loophole state," has numerous individuals selling
firearms to
other individuals at gunshows and at other venues without bothering
with
any background checks.

In another of his posts, he had a statistic that said less than 1% of
the guns used in crimes came from gun shows.

I don't know for a fact but I suspect that 1% number refers to
*reported* gun show sales by a FFL. It's the only way the data could
have been documented.

I don't think it includes "no questions asked" private sales at gun
shows. How could it if there are no records?

Well, if that's the case then "no questions asked" in the context of
this discussion is only a hypothetical too?

sigh

If you are referring to the CNN documentary, they showed and reported
that the sellers didn't even ask the buyer's name let alone any ID. You
can believe that or not believe it, but that's what they reported.

Probably easier for you to just declare the report as being a made-up
hoax like Greg and it will satisfy you.

Non responsive.. let me try again.. has anybody here experienced
personally the type of activity the CNN report "found". Is this
prevalent or can we assume CNN had to dig a little to get someone to do
it? Just trying to get by the this or that extremes you leftys are
throwing out here... suggesting that if someone doesn't see it your way,
they must be as far from your opinion as possible.. I know that makes it
easier to justify dismissing their point of view or coming to the
middle, but it doesn't change anything...

Mr. Luddite

On 11/14/2014 1:52 PM, KC wrote:
On 11/14/2014 1:40 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/14/2014 11:41 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/14/2014 11:29 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

On 11/14/14 11:05 AM, wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 06:40:07 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

I think you missed the point of Luddite's posit entirely. The
point is
that firearms are being sold at gun shows sans even the instant
background checks, especially but not only by individuals who are
not
FFLs. It has been demonstrated many times that Virginia, in
particular,
a "gunshow loophole state," has numerous individuals selling
firearms to
other individuals at gunshows and at other venues without bothering
with
any background checks.

In another of his posts, he had a statistic that said less than 1% of
the guns used in crimes came from gun shows.

I don't know for a fact but I suspect that 1% number refers to
*reported* gun show sales by a FFL. It's the only way the data could
have been documented.

I don't think it includes "no questions asked" private sales at gun
shows. How could it if there are no records?

Well, if that's the case then "no questions asked" in the context of
this discussion is only a hypothetical too?

sigh

If you are referring to the CNN documentary, they showed and reported
that the sellers didn't even ask the buyer's name let alone any ID. You
can believe that or not believe it, but that's what they reported.

Probably easier for you to just declare the report as being a made-up
hoax like Greg and it will satisfy you.

Non responsive.. let me try again.. has anybody here experienced
personally the type of activity the CNN report "found". Is this
prevalent or can we assume CNN had to dig a little to get someone to do
it? Just trying to get by the this or that extremes you leftys are
throwing out here... suggesting that if someone doesn't see it your way,
they must be as far from your opinion as possible.. I know that makes it
easier to justify dismissing their point of view or coming to the
middle, but it doesn't change anything...

I don't buy guns illegally ... personally.

F*O*A*D

On 11/14/14 2:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/14/2014 1:52 PM, KC wrote:
On 11/14/2014 1:40 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/14/2014 11:41 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/14/2014 11:29 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

On 11/14/14 11:05 AM, wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 06:40:07 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

I think you missed the point of Luddite's posit entirely. The
point is
that firearms are being sold at gun shows sans even the instant
background checks, especially but not only by individuals who are
not
FFLs. It has been demonstrated many times that Virginia, in
particular,
a "gunshow loophole state," has numerous individuals selling
firearms to
other individuals at gunshows and at other venues without bothering
with
any background checks.

In another of his posts, he had a statistic that said less than
1% of
the guns used in crimes came from gun shows.

I don't know for a fact but I suspect that 1% number refers to
*reported* gun show sales by a FFL. It's the only way the data could
have been documented.

I don't think it includes "no questions asked" private sales at gun
shows. How could it if there are no records?

Well, if that's the case then "no questions asked" in the context of
this discussion is only a hypothetical too?

sigh

If you are referring to the CNN documentary, they showed and reported
that the sellers didn't even ask the buyer's name let alone any ID. You
can believe that or not believe it, but that's what they reported.

Probably easier for you to just declare the report as being a made-up
hoax like Greg and it will satisfy you.

Non responsive.. let me try again.. has anybody here experienced
personally the type of activity the CNN report "found". Is this
prevalent or can we assume CNN had to dig a little to get someone to do
it? Just trying to get by the this or that extremes you leftys are
throwing out here... suggesting that if someone doesn't see it your way,
they must be as far from your opinion as possible.. I know that makes it
easier to justify dismissing their point of view or coming to the
middle, but it doesn't change anything...

I don't buy guns illegally ... personally.

Scotty is looking for hints so he can buy himself a pocket rocket.

--
Just because you are opposed to abortion doesn’t make you pro-life. Your
morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a
child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed, not a child
clothed, not a child able to see the doctor. That’s not pro-life…that’s
pro-birth.

KC

On 11/14/2014 2:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/14/2014 1:52 PM, KC wrote:
On 11/14/2014 1:40 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/14/2014 11:41 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/14/2014 11:29 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

On 11/14/14 11:05 AM, wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 06:40:07 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

I think you missed the point of Luddite's posit entirely. The
point is
that firearms are being sold at gun shows sans even the instant
background checks, especially but not only by individuals who are
not
FFLs. It has been demonstrated many times that Virginia, in
particular,
a "gunshow loophole state," has numerous individuals selling
firearms to
other individuals at gunshows and at other venues without bothering
with
any background checks.

In another of his posts, he had a statistic that said less than
1% of
the guns used in crimes came from gun shows.

I don't know for a fact but I suspect that 1% number refers to
*reported* gun show sales by a FFL. It's the only way the data could
have been documented.

I don't think it includes "no questions asked" private sales at gun
shows. How could it if there are no records?

Well, if that's the case then "no questions asked" in the context of
this discussion is only a hypothetical too?

sigh

If you are referring to the CNN documentary, they showed and reported
that the sellers didn't even ask the buyer's name let alone any ID. You
can believe that or not believe it, but that's what they reported.

Probably easier for you to just declare the report as being a made-up
hoax like Greg and it will satisfy you.

Non responsive.. let me try again.. has anybody here experienced
personally the type of activity the CNN report "found". Is this
prevalent or can we assume CNN had to dig a little to get someone to do
it? Just trying to get by the this or that extremes you leftys are
throwing out here... suggesting that if someone doesn't see it your way,
they must be as far from your opinion as possible.. I know that makes it
easier to justify dismissing their point of view or coming to the
middle, but it doesn't change anything...

I don't buy guns illegally ... personally.

Ok you haven't seen this type of activity? Ok, that is a start, anybody
else see any of this activity at gun shows?

Poco Loco

On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:40:42 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/14/2014 11:41 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/14/2014 11:29 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

On 11/14/14 11:05 AM, wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 06:40:07 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

I think you missed the point of Luddite's posit entirely. The point is
that firearms are being sold at gun shows sans even the instant
background checks, especially but not only by individuals who are not
FFLs. It has been demonstrated many times that Virginia, in
particular,
a "gunshow loophole state," has numerous individuals selling
firearms to
other individuals at gunshows and at other venues without bothering
with
any background checks.

In another of his posts, he had a statistic that said less than 1% of
the guns used in crimes came from gun shows.

I don't know for a fact but I suspect that 1% number refers to
*reported* gun show sales by a FFL. It's the only way the data could
have been documented.

I don't think it includes "no questions asked" private sales at gun
shows. How could it if there are no records?

Well, if that's the case then "no questions asked" in the context of
this discussion is only a hypothetical too?

sigh

If you are referring to the CNN documentary, they showed and reported
that the sellers didn't even ask the buyer's name let alone any ID. You
can believe that or not believe it, but that's what they reported.

Probably easier for you to just declare the report as being a made-up
hoax like Greg and it will satisfy you.

We absolutely need more laws for those damn lawbreakers to break.

Mr. Luddite

On 11/14/2014 8:59 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:40:42 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/14/2014 11:41 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/14/2014 11:29 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

On 11/14/14 11:05 AM, wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 06:40:07 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

I think you missed the point of Luddite's posit entirely. The point is
that firearms are being sold at gun shows sans even the instant
background checks, especially but not only by individuals who are not
FFLs. It has been demonstrated many times that Virginia, in
particular,
a "gunshow loophole state," has numerous individuals selling
firearms to
other individuals at gunshows and at other venues without bothering
with
any background checks.

In another of his posts, he had a statistic that said less than 1% of
the guns used in crimes came from gun shows.

I don't know for a fact but I suspect that 1% number refers to
*reported* gun show sales by a FFL. It's the only way the data could
have been documented.

I don't think it includes "no questions asked" private sales at gun
shows. How could it if there are no records?

Well, if that's the case then "no questions asked" in the context of
this discussion is only a hypothetical too?

sigh

If you are referring to the CNN documentary, they showed and reported
that the sellers didn't even ask the buyer's name let alone any ID. You
can believe that or not believe it, but that's what they reported.

Probably easier for you to just declare the report as being a made-up
hoax like Greg and it will satisfy you.

I never called it a made up hoax, only a carefully edited piece that
threw away all the footage that was not proving the point they started
out to prove and getting about 70 seconds out of hours of tape to
prove it.
They told you they shopped at 5 shows in 4 states over at least 2 days
they showed footage of 4 sellers at 2 shows and talked about 5 guns
from those 4 sellers,. Do you think there were only 5 guns for sale at
5 shows?
Aren't you even intellectually curious enough to ask what happened the
rest of the times they tried to buy a gun?

No. The stated purpose of the documentary was to demonstrate how easily
guns could be purchased with no questions asked.

They bought four guns with no questions asked.

(They also said they were refused by three sellers, one in each of the
three states they visited.)

I think purchasing the four guns with no questions asked proved their point.

That's all. Unlike you, I don't read anything else into it.

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