On 8/13/14, 8:41 AM, True North wrote:
Bertie says

"Donnie is proud of the fact that he worked for a Crown Corporation. Most
likely he was the janitor at Canada Post in Halifax. "


Yes and no, Bertie.
You're improving, now you are at least half right.


Bertie has been boatless for longer than any poster's "existence" on
rec.boats.

On 8/13/2014 8:25 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 8/12/14, 2:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:54:17 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:23:59 -0400, wrote:

if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks

===

I don't think liquidate is the right description. Those who have
made good investment decisions can do well with the just dividend
stream and capital gains, leaving the principal amount mostly
untouched.

The problem, is most of those retirees have little actual money /
income.
So they will have to cash in the retirement accounts for living. I read
somewhere that the average savings of a 50 year is less the $50,000.
They
are not going to get to the amount of savings by 66 to live off of the
dividend stream. In other words, most have made either bad investment
decisions, or saved little, or both. Those people who have driven
around
in leased Bimmers and MB's and living the good life on current income
are
probably a majority. Or they were lower income workers. Janitors, etc.

That is my thinking and to make things worse, these people will be
selling into a bear market, just to pay the rent.
That is a perpetual motion market crash in the making. Every
correction will be pushed down farther than it normally would be by
these subsistence sellers.

OTOH the rich will certainly have the opportunity to get richer since
they can sit on the side lines with a big bag of money and scoop up
the bargains when they think they see a bottom.
You just have to be sure you are invested in a fund with large cash
reserves and hope it is enough to get them over the hard times without
selling off stocks to cover withdrawals.
For me, I am already starting to take my profits on this bubble market
we are looking at right now.
I think this bubble is going to pop.



It won't happen in my lifetime, but this country is headed for a real
revolution. Whether is is peaceful or violent will only be revealed in
the future. Corporationists, greed, banksters and the trend to find the
cheapest labor for everything means the death of the middle class and
the end of the possibility of lower income groups being able to fight
their way into it. No more decent jobs with benefits, eventually no more
Social Security, no more nothing for the vast majority of Americans
beyond bleak subsistence living. Municipal services being privatized,
jails privatized, police forces gearing up with assault vehicles and
weaponry, and ignorant Americans thinking illegal Central and South
American immigrants are the cause of civilization's decline. It's a
perfect scenario for heads on pikes of the Koch Brothers types and a
real restructuring of America.



If history is a guide to the future a global conflict is likely ...
basically WWIII that will completely restructure how businesses operate
in the USA. It's inevitable.

Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education
will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even
in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and
enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school
diploma are over.

On 8/13/2014 6:25 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 8/12/14, 2:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:54:17 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:23:59 -0400, wrote:

if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks

===

I don't think liquidate is the right description. Those who have
made good investment decisions can do well with the just dividend
stream and capital gains, leaving the principal amount mostly
untouched.

The problem, is most of those retirees have little actual money /
income.
So they will have to cash in the retirement accounts for living. I read
somewhere that the average savings of a 50 year is less the $50,000.
They
are not going to get to the amount of savings by 66 to live off of the
dividend stream. In other words, most have made either bad investment
decisions, or saved little, or both. Those people who have driven
around
in leased Bimmers and MB's and living the good life on current income
are
probably a majority. Or they were lower income workers. Janitors, etc.

That is my thinking and to make things worse, these people will be
selling into a bear market, just to pay the rent.
That is a perpetual motion market crash in the making. Every
correction will be pushed down farther than it normally would be by
these subsistence sellers.

OTOH the rich will certainly have the opportunity to get richer since
they can sit on the side lines with a big bag of money and scoop up
the bargains when they think they see a bottom.
You just have to be sure you are invested in a fund with large cash
reserves and hope it is enough to get them over the hard times without
selling off stocks to cover withdrawals.
For me, I am already starting to take my profits on this bubble market
we are looking at right now.
I think this bubble is going to pop.



It won't happen in my lifetime, but this country is headed for a real
revolution. Whether is is peaceful or violent will only be revealed in
the future. Corporationists, greed, banksters and the trend to find the
cheapest labor for everything means the death of the middle class and
the end of the possibility of lower income groups being able to fight
their way into it. No more decent jobs with benefits, eventually no more
Social Security, no more nothing for the vast majority of Americans
beyond bleak subsistence living. Municipal services being privatized,
jails privatized, police forces gearing up with assault vehicles and
weaponry, and ignorant Americans thinking illegal Central and South
American immigrants are the cause of civilization's decline. It's a
perfect scenario for heads on pikes of the Koch Brothers types and a
real restructuring of America.


History will reveal that labor unions and the liberalization of America
will be the cause of death of the once greatest nation on earth.

--
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the
government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of
taking care of them".
Thomas Jefferson

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 8/13/2014 8:25 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 8/12/14, 2:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:54:17 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:23:59 -0400, wrote:

if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks

===

I don't think liquidate is the right description. Those who have
made good investment decisions can do well with the just dividend
stream and capital gains, leaving the principal amount mostly
untouched.

The problem, is most of those retirees have little actual money /
income.
So they will have to cash in the retirement accounts for living. I read
somewhere that the average savings of a 50 year is less the $50,000.
They
are not going to get to the amount of savings by 66 to live off of the
dividend stream. In other words, most have made either bad investment
decisions, or saved little, or both. Those people who have driven
around
in leased Bimmers and MB's and living the good life on current income
are
probably a majority. Or they were lower income workers. Janitors, etc.

That is my thinking and to make things worse, these people will be
selling into a bear market, just to pay the rent.
That is a perpetual motion market crash in the making. Every
correction will be pushed down farther than it normally would be by
these subsistence sellers.

OTOH the rich will certainly have the opportunity to get richer since
they can sit on the side lines with a big bag of money and scoop up
the bargains when they think they see a bottom.
You just have to be sure you are invested in a fund with large cash
reserves and hope it is enough to get them over the hard times without
selling off stocks to cover withdrawals.
For me, I am already starting to take my profits on this bubble market
we are looking at right now.
I think this bubble is going to pop.



It won't happen in my lifetime, but this country is headed for a real
revolution. Whether is is peaceful or violent will only be revealed in
the future. Corporationists, greed, banksters and the trend to find the
cheapest labor for everything means the death of the middle class and
the end of the possibility of lower income groups being able to fight
their way into it. No more decent jobs with benefits, eventually no more
Social Security, no more nothing for the vast majority of Americans
beyond bleak subsistence living. Municipal services being privatized,
jails privatized, police forces gearing up with assault vehicles and
weaponry, and ignorant Americans thinking illegal Central and South
American immigrants are the cause of civilization's decline. It's a
perfect scenario for heads on pikes of the Koch Brothers types and a
real restructuring of America.



If history is a guide to the future a global conflict is likely ...
basically WWIII that will completely restructure how businesses operate
in the USA. It's inevitable.

Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education
will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even
in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and
enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school diploma are over.

It isn't just "unskilled" jobs in decline in this country. We are headed
for a massive restructuring. Too much wealth is concentrated in the hands
of too few and it is getting worse.

--
Posted from my iPhone

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:18:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education
will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even
in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and
enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school
diploma are over.



===

I understand your point and half agree with your conclusion. There's
no question that skills are the key to a good job and competetive
compensation but there will always be people who manage to acquire
those skills in non-traditional ways. Additionally, there are
certains skills that have almost always been acquired through on the
job training and hard work. I'm thinking specifically of contractors,
electricians, cabinet makers, finish carpenters, specialty welders,
small business owners, oil field workers, etc.

wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:00:58 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:18:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education
will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even
in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and
enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school
diploma are over.



===

I understand your point and half agree with your conclusion. There's
no question that skills are the key to a good job and competetive
compensation but there will always be people who manage to acquire
those skills in non-traditional ways. Additionally, there are
certains skills that have almost always been acquired through on the
job training and hard work. I'm thinking specifically of contractors,
electricians, cabinet makers, finish carpenters, specialty welders,
small business owners, oil field workers, etc.

Harry is schizophrenic in this regard. On the one hand he touts
college for everyone and then he talks about how wonderful the
training is in the trade unions.

I tend to agree that some of the best job opportunities will lie in
the trades.

I know a lot of guys in skilled trades with four year college degrees.
--
Posted from my iPhone

wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:18:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


If history is a guide to the future a global conflict is likely ...
basically WWIII that will completely restructure how businesses operate
in the USA. It's inevitable.

Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education
will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even
in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and
enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school
diploma are over.


I am not really sure what those "college" jobs will be either. The
traditional job for a liberal arts major was middle management
somewhere. Without the "labor", you do not need that many managers.
Just like a lot of jobs, middle management and the infrastructure than
comes up around them, was replaced by computers.
Even before I left, IBM had stripped out several levels of management
completely. A lot of "offices" disappeared.
I agree educational requirements for jobs are higher but that is not
because the job demands that education, it is simply because there are
a glut of college educated people looking for a job.

As I said: revolution.
--
Posted from my iPhone

On 8/13/2014 9:50 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 8/13/2014 8:25 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 8/12/14, 2:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:54:17 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:23:59 -0400, wrote:

if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks

===

I don't think liquidate is the right description. Those who have
made good investment decisions can do well with the just dividend
stream and capital gains, leaving the principal amount mostly
untouched.

The problem, is most of those retirees have little actual money /
income.
So they will have to cash in the retirement accounts for living. I read
somewhere that the average savings of a 50 year is less the $50,000.
They
are not going to get to the amount of savings by 66 to live off of the
dividend stream. In other words, most have made either bad investment
decisions, or saved little, or both. Those people who have driven
around
in leased Bimmers and MB's and living the good life on current income
are
probably a majority. Or they were lower income workers. Janitors, etc.

That is my thinking and to make things worse, these people will be
selling into a bear market, just to pay the rent.
That is a perpetual motion market crash in the making. Every
correction will be pushed down farther than it normally would be by
these subsistence sellers.

OTOH the rich will certainly have the opportunity to get richer since
they can sit on the side lines with a big bag of money and scoop up
the bargains when they think they see a bottom.
You just have to be sure you are invested in a fund with large cash
reserves and hope it is enough to get them over the hard times without
selling off stocks to cover withdrawals.
For me, I am already starting to take my profits on this bubble market
we are looking at right now.
I think this bubble is going to pop.



It won't happen in my lifetime, but this country is headed for a real
revolution. Whether is is peaceful or violent will only be revealed in
the future. Corporationists, greed, banksters and the trend to find the
cheapest labor for everything means the death of the middle class and
the end of the possibility of lower income groups being able to fight
their way into it. No more decent jobs with benefits, eventually no more
Social Security, no more nothing for the vast majority of Americans
beyond bleak subsistence living. Municipal services being privatized,
jails privatized, police forces gearing up with assault vehicles and
weaponry, and ignorant Americans thinking illegal Central and South
American immigrants are the cause of civilization's decline. It's a
perfect scenario for heads on pikes of the Koch Brothers types and a
real restructuring of America.



If history is a guide to the future a global conflict is likely ...
basically WWIII that will completely restructure how businesses operate
in the USA. It's inevitable.

Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education
will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even
in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and
enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school diploma are over.

It isn't just "unskilled" jobs in decline in this country. We are headed
for a massive restructuring. Too much wealth is concentrated in the hands
of too few and it is getting worse.



There are two ways to respond to your assessment. The first is to cast
the blame on those who have been successful and demand a cut of the
fruits of their labor.

The second is to qualify oneself via training and education for the jobs
that exist in a highly competitive world ... that is only becoming
*more* competitive.

For most, the second route was drilled into us as youngsters. Unlike
today, we were never taught to "expect" it due to some societal right.
The required education may be acquired in many ways. It doesn't
necessarily require daddy's fat checkbook.

I'd also add that it often takes many years of work to rise to the
"middle class" financial category. Some people seem to think it's a
"right" and should start as soon as you become an adult. I didn't
achieve a "middle class" lifestyle until well into my 30's.

On 8/13/2014 10:00 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:18:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education
will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even
in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and
enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school
diploma are over.



===

I understand your point and half agree with your conclusion. There's
no question that skills are the key to a good job and competetive
compensation but there will always be people who manage to acquire
those skills in non-traditional ways. Additionally, there are
certains skills that have almost always been acquired through on the
job training and hard work. I'm thinking specifically of contractors,
electricians, cabinet makers, finish carpenters, specialty welders,
small business owners, oil field workers, etc.



I agree 100 percent. The requirement of training or an education may be
achieved in many ways. Schools are only one of the avenues.

The common denominators is the *will* to learn, grow and improve one's
station in life. My complaint is about those who seem to think that
success, measured at any level, is a right rather than an earned reward.

On 13 Aug 2014 16:17:05 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:00:58 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:18:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education
will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even
in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and
enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school
diploma are over.



===

I understand your point and half agree with your conclusion. There's
no question that skills are the key to a good job and competetive
compensation but there will always be people who manage to acquire
those skills in non-traditional ways. Additionally, there are
certains skills that have almost always been acquired through on the
job training and hard work. I'm thinking specifically of contractors,
electricians, cabinet makers, finish carpenters, specialty welders,
small business owners, oil field workers, etc.

Harry is schizophrenic in this regard. On the one hand he touts
college for everyone and then he talks about how wonderful the
training is in the trade unions.

I tend to agree that some of the best job opportunities will lie in
the trades.

I know a lot of guys in skilled trades with four year college degrees.

===

There's nothing wrong with making a good living in the skilled trades
but I'd argue that they wasted a fair amount of time and money in
acquiring their 4 year degree. No doubt they are the better for it
it ways that can't be quantified or monetized but the return on
investment is just not there.