True North wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 11:33:16 UTC-3, wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 07:59:23 -0500, amdx wrote:





Just a note:

Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future

because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting

Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA.

Mikek



That assumes the government would not change the tax code on a Roth. I

am old enough to remember when they said Social Security would never

be taxed ... because you already paid taxes on that money ... just

like a Roth.

When it comes to the government ****ing you, just plan on it.

Wow!
We pay both federal and provincial income tax on anything over our basic
exemption, which is around 11k and another $2K if on pension plus I get
another $7K because I turn 65 this month.
After that everything is taxed at the rate of the income category you
fall in... and yes that's all pensions, interest received on investments,
monies taken out of RRSPs etc.

Y'all have been spoiled down there and the chickens are coming home to roost.

You get something for it. We get military spending. ðŸ˜*
--
Posted from my iPhone

On 8/12/2014 9:16 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
True North wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 11:33:16 UTC-3, wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 07:59:23 -0500, amdx wrote:





Just a note:

Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future

because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting

Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA.

Mikek



That assumes the government would not change the tax code on a Roth. I

am old enough to remember when they said Social Security would never

be taxed ... because you already paid taxes on that money ... just

like a Roth.

When it comes to the government ****ing you, just plan on it.

Wow!
We pay both federal and provincial income tax on anything over our basic
exemption, which is around 11k and another $2K if on pension plus I get
another $7K because I turn 65 this month.
After that everything is taxed at the rate of the income category you
fall in... and yes that's all pensions, interest received on investments,
monies taken out of RRSPs etc.

Y'all have been spoiled down there and the chickens are coming home to roost.

You get something for it. We get military spending. ðŸ˜*

Why don't yoU suggest to him that being a tax cheat is an honoUrable
endeavoUr. Works for YoU, eh?

--
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the
government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of
taking care of them".
Thomas Jefferson

On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 12:30:11 UTC-3, wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 08:12:35 -0700 (PDT), True North

wrote:



On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 11:33:16 UTC-3, wrote:

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 07:59:23 -0500, amdx wrote:











Just a note:



Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future



because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting



Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA.



Mikek







That assumes the government would not change the tax code on a Roth. I



am old enough to remember when they said Social Security would never



be taxed ... because you already paid taxes on that money ... just



like a Roth.



When it comes to the government ****ing you, just plan on it.



Wow!

We pay both federal and provincial income tax on anything over our basic exemption, which is around 11k and another $2K if on pension plus I get another $7K because I turn 65 this month.

After that everything is taxed at the rate of the income category you fall in... and yes that's all pensions, interest received on investments, monies taken out of RRSPs etc.



Y'all have been spoiled down there and the chickens are coming home to roost.



It sounds like you guys have as many debt problems as we do



http://www.fraserinstitute.org/resea...ent-Debt-2014/

Don't know how much I'd trust that 'right wing think tank'.. but yes, our federal and provincial governments have been spending like drunken sailors, and not properly addressing liabilities in public servant pensions.

True North wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 12:30:11 UTC-3, wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 08:12:35 -0700 (PDT), True North

wrote:



On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 11:33:16 UTC-3, wrote:

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 07:59:23 -0500, amdx wrote:











Just a note:



Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future



because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting



Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA.



Mikek







That assumes the government would not change the tax code on a Roth. I



am old enough to remember when they said Social Security would never



be taxed ... because you already paid taxes on that money ... just



like a Roth.



When it comes to the government ****ing you, just plan on it.



Wow!

We pay both federal and provincial income tax on anything over our
basic exemption, which is around 11k and another $2K if on pension plus
I get another $7K because I turn 65 this month.

After that everything is taxed at the rate of the income category you
fall in... and yes that's all pensions, interest received on
investments, monies taken out of RRSPs etc.



Y'all have been spoiled down there and the chickens are coming home to roost.



It sounds like you guys have as many debt problems as we do



http://www.fraserinstitute.org/resea...ent-Debt-2014/

Don't know how much I'd trust that 'right wing think tank'.. but yes, our
federal and provincial governments have been spending like drunken
sailors, and not properly addressing liabilities in public servant pensions.

Why are you worrying about public service pensions? You sate you were not
a government worker.

True North wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 11:33:16 UTC-3, wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 07:59:23 -0500, amdx wrote:





Just a note:

Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future

because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting

Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA.

Mikek



That assumes the government would not change the tax code on a Roth. I

am old enough to remember when they said Social Security would never

be taxed ... because you already paid taxes on that money ... just

like a Roth.

When it comes to the government ****ing you, just plan on it.

Wow!
We pay both federal and provincial income tax on anything over our basic
exemption, which is around 11k and another $2K if on pension plus I get
another $7K because I turn 65 this month.
After that everything is taxed at the rate of the income category you
fall in... and yes that's all pensions, interest received on investments,
monies taken out of RRSPs etc.

Y'all have been spoiled down there and the chickens are coming home to roost.

No, you have been screwed up there. Those 18-25% VAT taxes, etc. to pay
for a crappy single payer health system, plus social programs. How much do
you think your health care costs you a year?

amdx wrote:
On 8/10/2014 11:41 PM, Califbill wrote:
BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 15:30:01 -0500, amdx wrote:

On 8/10/2014 10:22 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 09:54:41 -0500, amdx wrote:


I want to clarify the method used to calculate the value of S.S. When
taken at 62yrs vs 66yrs.


I'll assume the following benefits $1,500 at 62 and $2,049 at 66.

1500 x 1nn% = yy or one month benefit plus interest
yy x 1nn% = yy or two months benefit plus interest
?....
?....
yy x 1nn% =yy or 12 months benefit plus interest

yy minus taxes paid = new yy

repeat for 4 years and save yearly values


""I will use this calculator to do this.""
http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/fin...calculator.php


Using 8% annual growth compounded monthly.

year one $18,799 minus 15% = $15,979
year two $36,105 minus 15% = $30,689
year three $52,036 minus 15% = $44,231
year four $66,702 minus 15% = $56,697

$56,697 x 0.08% = $4,536*
$4,536 is the interest earned on four years of savings.

$1,500 x 12 mo = $18,000 Yearly Benefit at 62.

If I add $4,536* to $18,000 = $22,436
Benefit at 62 plus interested earned on 4 years of savings.

$2,049 x 12mo = $24,588 Benefit at 66

$24,588 - $22,436 = ($2,052)

So the 62yr benefit saved for four years plus interest is $2052 less
than 66 yr benefit.
Or you could make up the difference for about 20 years by spending
enough of the savings to be even. This has to be calculated to find
exactly how many years, but it's not simple.


Ok this is my first iteration.
I think 8% interest is optimistic.
I know I could add in COLA, but it goes into both so I think it's a wash.
What should I change?

Mikek



All of these calculations assume SS will continue forever at the
current pace. (benefits ratio, COLAs, tax treatment etc)

That's about all we can do, my crystal ball works great except when
I use it to predict the future.

It is clear that there is a move to "reform" the program and that
means reduced benefits somewhere.
The last "reform" started taxing 85% of the benefits at normal tax
rates for anyone who has any other significant income.
Taking your required withdrawals from your 401k will put most people
over this threshold. A pension is a slam dunk.

I just hope they don't means test or asset test.
I suspect if you earned it and saved it, they'll find a way
to get it.
Mikek


Count on it. The millennials are going to throw grandma from the
(gravy) train as soon as they figure out how to vote.
The idea that the money in your 401k will be taxed at a lower rate
than when you were working is a joke.

SS is going to be a means tested welfare program.

There is nothing stopping you from pulling money out of your 401k/IRA
when you are 59 1/2 and investing it in other investment vehicles.

You pay taxes now or later. I go later. And all my 401k's are now IRAs.

Just a note:
Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future
because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting
Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA.
Mikek

The problem with Roth IRA's is to move my traditional IRA's to Roth, I have
to give up 35-39% of the money up front. Even with increasing tax rates, I
doubt I can recover the differences in the rest of my life.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:23:59 -0400, wrote:

if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks

===

I don't think liquidate is the right description. Those who have
made good investment decisions can do well with the just dividend
stream and capital gains, leaving the principal amount mostly
untouched.

The problem, is most of those retirees have little actual money / income.
So they will have to cash in the retirement accounts for living. I read
somewhere that the average savings of a 50 year is less the $50,000. They
are not going to get to the amount of savings by 66 to live off of the
dividend stream. In other words, most have made either bad investment
decisions, or saved little, or both. Those people who have driven around
in leased Bimmers and MB's and living the good life on current income are
probably a majority. Or they were lower income workers. Janitors, etc.

True North wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 11:33:16 UTC-3, wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 07:59:23 -0500, amdx wrote:





Just a note:
Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future
because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting
Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA.
Mikek


That assumes the government would not change the tax code on a Roth. I

am old enough to remember when they said Social Security would never

be taxed ... because you already paid taxes on that money ... just

like a Roth.

When it comes to the government ****ing you, just plan on it.
Wow!
We pay both federal and provincial income tax on anything over our basic exemption, which is around 11k and another $2K if on pension plus I get another $7K because I turn 65 this month.
After that everything is taxed at the rate of the income category you fall in... and yes that's all pensions, interest received on investments, monies taken out of RRSPs etc.

Y'all have been spoiled down there and the chickens are coming home to roost.

An IRA is not a pension. It's money we paid for our retirement because
we can't count on our government to keep the money we paid into SS in
the "lockbox".

On 8/12/14, 2:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:54:17 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:23:59 -0400, wrote:

if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks

===

I don't think liquidate is the right description. Those who have
made good investment decisions can do well with the just dividend
stream and capital gains, leaving the principal amount mostly
untouched.

The problem, is most of those retirees have little actual money / income.
So they will have to cash in the retirement accounts for living. I read
somewhere that the average savings of a 50 year is less the $50,000. They
are not going to get to the amount of savings by 66 to live off of the
dividend stream. In other words, most have made either bad investment
decisions, or saved little, or both. Those people who have driven around
in leased Bimmers and MB's and living the good life on current income are
probably a majority. Or they were lower income workers. Janitors, etc.

That is my thinking and to make things worse, these people will be
selling into a bear market, just to pay the rent.
That is a perpetual motion market crash in the making. Every
correction will be pushed down farther than it normally would be by
these subsistence sellers.

OTOH the rich will certainly have the opportunity to get richer since
they can sit on the side lines with a big bag of money and scoop up
the bargains when they think they see a bottom.
You just have to be sure you are invested in a fund with large cash
reserves and hope it is enough to get them over the hard times without
selling off stocks to cover withdrawals.
For me, I am already starting to take my profits on this bubble market
we are looking at right now.
I think this bubble is going to pop.



It won't happen in my lifetime, but this country is headed for a real
revolution. Whether is is peaceful or violent will only be revealed in
the future. Corporationists, greed, banksters and the trend to find the
cheapest labor for everything means the death of the middle class and
the end of the possibility of lower income groups being able to fight
their way into it. No more decent jobs with benefits, eventually no more
Social Security, no more nothing for the vast majority of Americans
beyond bleak subsistence living. Municipal services being privatized,
jails privatized, police forces gearing up with assault vehicles and
weaponry, and ignorant Americans thinking illegal Central and South
American immigrants are the cause of civilization's decline. It's a
perfect scenario for heads on pikes of the Koch Brothers types and a
real restructuring of America.

Bertie says

"Donnie is proud of the fact that he worked for a Crown Corporation. Most
likely he was the janitor at Canada Post in Halifax. "


Yes and no, Bertie.
You're improving, now you are at least half right.