Califbill wrote:
Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 15:17:11 -0600, Califbill wrote:

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where would
you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other examples. There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths than hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If they commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend, that
I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care, so
stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then went
to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed the same
path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have been through
rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen money, jewelry
and other items from their parents, grandparents, other relatives and
former friends to fund their addictions. Failed marriages, abortions,
and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old sister-in-law (mother of
the niece) is now in therapy and is taking anti-anxiety pills because
she's coming apart emotionally due to her daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.

But is the heroin the problem or the screwed up person using? And if was
more legal, how screwed up would they be? Maybe not need to take up a life
of crime to pay for the drugs.

Bill, addictions don't get to a 'functioning member of society' stage and
then remain constant. They
get worse, and worse, until the addict hits his/her bottom. The bottom
might be a reckless driving
ticket, or it might be death, or somewhere in between.

At least that's been my experience with addicts.

Then addiction is finished.

Humanitarianism expressed by those on the far right always impresses me.

On Friday, February 7, 2014 11:42:42 AM UTC-6, Wayne. B wrote:

There's no clinical reason for it to be considered a "stepping stone"

but it does bring kids into contact with the drug culture in general,

and that is not a good thing. Best thing for parents is to let their

views be firmly known, and to keep track of their friends. "Friends"

are where a lot of the mischief starts. Make sure the kids are kept

occupied with wholesome activities and reward them for success in

those endeavors. A bit of luck helps also.

That's a good thought, Wayne, but what if the kids parents are stoners?

?8^(

F.O.A.D. wrote:
Califbill wrote:
Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 15:17:11 -0600, Califbill wrote:

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where would
you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other examples. There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths than hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If they commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend, that
I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care, so
stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then went
to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed the same
path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have been through
rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen money, jewelry
and other items from their parents, grandparents, other relatives and
former friends to fund their addictions. Failed marriages, abortions,
and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old sister-in-law (mother of
the niece) is now in therapy and is taking anti-anxiety pills because
she's coming apart emotionally due to her daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.

But is the heroin the problem or the screwed up person using? And if was
more legal, how screwed up would they be? Maybe not need to take up a life
of crime to pay for the drugs.

Bill, addictions don't get to a 'functioning member of society' stage and
then remain constant. They
get worse, and worse, until the addict hits his/her bottom. The bottom
might be a reckless driving
ticket, or it might be death, or somewhere in between.

At least that's been my experience with addicts.

Then addiction is finished.

Humanitarianism expressed by those on the far right always impresses me.

Maybe it is more the personal responsibility. You and your lack of family
values screw you up, make do.

On Friday, February 7, 2014 11:45:24 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:10:30 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:





What would you do to handle the drug problem? The jails already are

filled with addicts and drug dealers. Build more jails?



Yes but not the kid of jail they use now. We need drug jail for

non-violent drug offenders where they actually try to rehabilitate

them.

Now, that's not a bad idea. Better than throwing them in with the general populace to pick up more bad habits.

On Friday, February 7, 2014 1:54:38 PM UTC-6, Mr. Luddite wrote:


It's extremely difficult to "rehabilitate" a drug addict, especially in

an institutional type setting. Long term success rates are alarmingly

low. Heroin addiction is something you fight for the rest of your life.




Correct. Hoffman just got out of rehab and in very short time was dead of a heroin OD

On 2/7/14, 6:01 PM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 1:54:38 PM UTC-6, Mr. Luddite wrote:


It's extremely difficult to "rehabilitate" a drug addict, especially in

an institutional type setting. Long term success rates are alarmingly

low. Heroin addiction is something you fight for the rest of your life.




Correct. Hoffman just got out of rehab and in very short time was dead of a heroin OD



Hoffman? Who is the Hoffman to whom you refer?

On Friday, February 7, 2014 5:18:37 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:




Correct. Hoffman just got out of rehab and in very short time was dead of a heroin OD


Hoffman? Who is the Hoffman to whom you refer?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/03/mo...t-46.html?_r=0

On 2/7/14, 6:52 PM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 5:18:37 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:




Correct. Hoffman just got out of rehab and in very short time was dead of a heroin OD


Hoffman? Who is the Hoffman to whom you refer?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/03/mo...t-46.html?_r=0


oh, ok. thought it was someone you knew personally.

On Friday, February 7, 2014 5:56:45 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/7/14, 6:52 PM, Tim wrote:

On Friday, February 7, 2014 5:18:37 PM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:









Correct. Hoffman just got out of rehab and in very short time was dead of a heroin OD





Hoffman? Who is the Hoffman to whom you refer?



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/03/mo...t-46.html?_r=0





oh, ok. thought it was someone you knew personally.

Well, I will say this. I do have a good friend that kicked it about 26 maybe 27 years ago. And to this day his body still craves it. He doesn't necessarily miss the 'high' but his carcase still begs to "shoot the horse"

Horrible addiction! I'm glad I never got into it.

On 2/7/2014 2:49 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry
for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more
people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private slams
will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires a
lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where
would you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because of
the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of
paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other examples.
There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths than
hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a
friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If they
commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low
enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was
supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed
more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend,
that I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care,
so stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then
went to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed
the same path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have
been through rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen
money, jewelry and other items from their parents, grandparents, other
relatives and former friends to fund their addictions. Failed
marriages, abortions, and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old
sister-in-law (mother of the niece) is now in therapy and is taking
anti-anxiety pills because she's coming apart emotionally due to her
daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.



We are on the same page with that....