On 1/22/2014 9:24 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 07:23:29 -0500, Hank wrote:


The US hasn't really embraced LED lighting in all formats yet.
Yet there is good reason to. Check out the harm hazardous conditions CFL
causes. My next project is to get rid of my flurescent tubes.

I ordered some specialty 12V LEDs and 12V motion switches last night
from Amazon. Cheap prices and free shipping direct from China. I got
shipping confirmation from one supplier within two hours. The other was
in my in box this morning. Small world, eh. I tell ya, the US needs to
rethink and remake it's position in the world marketplace. We need to
convert some of those liberal arts diploma mills to science and
engineering schools. If we can't make things we could , at least, design
them.

Ditto on the CFLs. I wish mine would hurry up and burn out. I'm even using them for outdoor lighting
in the hopes the cold weather will kill 'em. Hasn't worked.


How long does it take your CFLs to warm up and produce rated output?

On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 09:23:29 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/22/14, 9:21 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 07:00:20 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/21/14, 11:24 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:27:20 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 10:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:45:51 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't
pump my own water and I heat with
natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US
average'.

Those must be the ones who "use 30% of their electricity on lights"
(or whatever number you want to use.

I would also believe it is city thinking that most people have nat gas
coming to their house. When I was in Maryland, the gas line stopped
about 10 miles outside the beltway going South.
They may have expanded that by now.



I think you've missed something Gregg. Where did natural gas come into
the discussion?

Also, nobody said anybody uses 30% of their electricity on lights.
I offered a stat that said *13%* of residential electricity is used for
lighting.


He doesn't need lighting. He has good night vision. I guess he doesn't
get the point that some of us need light to see at night and welcome the
savings LED lighting affords us.

I don't need light when I am not there.
I guess you missed that part.

If you insist on lighting up empty rooms and the perimeter of your
house when nothing is there. I guess you are pitching in to use a more
efficient light source but you are still polluting the sky with
unwanted light.

http://pollutionfacts.org/content/light-pollution-facts


We don't have street lights in our little subdivision. In fact, most of
the residential neighborhoods in our county are sans street lights. So
many people keep a couple of lights burning outside at night. Maybe it
is a holdover from the days when mankind kept a fire burning at night
for warmth, a little light and to ward off those dinosaurs that roamed
the earth back then.

I am going to keep an eye out for some LED bulbs with small bases that
look decent and will fit in our outdoor lighting fixtures. I haven't
seen any at Home Despot or Lowes yet, but they are available via mail order.

Oh, we have a couple of LED nightlights in the house. Keeps me,
especially, from tripping over the cats.

Which base are you looking for? HD has a potfull of different base LEDs.

Bi-Pin (31)
Candelabra (30)
Double-Ended (1)
E26 (3)
GU10 (9)
GU24 (4)
Medium (278)
Other (35)
Twist Lock (4

I was there yesterday and couldn't believe the different styles of LED bulbs available.

If you need some really small based LEDs you might check Camping World also. I bought a couple for
the trailer with a base that looks like an auto taillight bulb.


You must live near an upscale Home Despot!

I'll have to look again; haven't been in the bulb section of HD for a while.

My local HD has about three times the bulbs my local Wal Mart stocks.

On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 09:34:51 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/22/2014 9:24 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 07:23:29 -0500, Hank wrote:


The US hasn't really embraced LED lighting in all formats yet.
Yet there is good reason to. Check out the harm hazardous conditions CFL
causes. My next project is to get rid of my flurescent tubes.

I ordered some specialty 12V LEDs and 12V motion switches last night
from Amazon. Cheap prices and free shipping direct from China. I got
shipping confirmation from one supplier within two hours. The other was
in my in box this morning. Small world, eh. I tell ya, the US needs to
rethink and remake it's position in the world marketplace. We need to
convert some of those liberal arts diploma mills to science and
engineering schools. If we can't make things we could , at least, design
them.

Ditto on the CFLs. I wish mine would hurry up and burn out. I'm even using them for outdoor lighting
in the hopes the cold weather will kill 'em. Hasn't worked.


How long does it take your CFLs to warm up and produce rated output?

I don't know. It seems like they never reach rated output. I'd guess ten seconds or so, but I'm not
sure.

On 1/22/2014 11:16 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 09:34:51 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/22/2014 9:24 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 07:23:29 -0500, Hank wrote:


The US hasn't really embraced LED lighting in all formats yet.
Yet there is good reason to. Check out the harm hazardous conditions CFL
causes. My next project is to get rid of my flurescent tubes.

I ordered some specialty 12V LEDs and 12V motion switches last night
from Amazon. Cheap prices and free shipping direct from China. I got
shipping confirmation from one supplier within two hours. The other was
in my in box this morning. Small world, eh. I tell ya, the US needs to
rethink and remake it's position in the world marketplace. We need to
convert some of those liberal arts diploma mills to science and
engineering schools. If we can't make things we could , at least, design
them.

Ditto on the CFLs. I wish mine would hurry up and burn out. I'm even using them for outdoor lighting
in the hopes the cold weather will kill 'em. Hasn't worked.


How long does it take your CFLs to warm up and produce rated output?

I don't know. It seems like they never reach rated output. I'd guess ten seconds or so, but I'm not
sure.


Whoo hooo... In my research around the house, I found a three way that
goes up to 150 watts (incandescent)!!! I can see, I can see!!!!!

On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 11:36:13 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 09:11:38 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

I don't need light when I am not there.
I guess you missed that part.

If you insist on lighting up empty rooms and the perimeter of your
house when nothing is there. I guess you are pitching in to use a more
efficient light source but you are still polluting the sky with
unwanted light.

http://pollutionfacts.org/content/light-pollution-facts

When we were at Bryce Canyon, the park rangers put on a presentation of star gazing at night in the
park. Leading up to the telescope viewing was an indoor slide show. They had several slides to show
how the light pollution has been working its way across the western US from California. I'd never
thought of it, but that show made a big impression.

I have been vacationing in the west for about 10 years and when you
actually get some place where it is dark, you really appreciating how
badly we have polluted the night sky.
Most of the kids today have never actually seen stars.
It is virtually impossible to make out most of the constellations if
you are anywhere near a city. That has now become a problem out in the
country too. It just doesn't get dark anymore.

That was one of the points the ranger made - most kids have never seen the Milky Way. At Bryce, that
night, the Milky Way was very visible. I don't think I'd seen it for years and years, probably not
since leaving the farm in southern Minnesota.

Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 1:44 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:18:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/21/2014 11:43 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it.

By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology
generator.

A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine
and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an
hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH.



That's what I discovered quickly with the 12kw generator I used in
Florida following Wilma.

The first day I ran it for about 6 hours (or less) and went through
about 8 gallons of gas. That's when I started recalculating things and
just used the little Honda.

The problem with them is that they have to run at 3600 RPM regardless of
load in order to generate 60 cycles. The inverter types like the Honda
can run at idle and still generate up to 6 amps of 120 volts (EU-2000).
If the load increases like when the refrigerator compressor kicked on,
the Honda would temporarily increase speed but then drop back to idle.


These two go on my Christmas list.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/34961

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/43844


You have to buy those guys in pairs? How come?

You can couple together for a 30 amp service. I have a Yamaha version.
But only one.

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 1/21/2014 5:16 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 13:34:31 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:11 AM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote:

How else would you do it?


According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, 13 percent of
residential electrical energy use is for lighting.

The same agency states that the US average monthly bill for residential
electricity for June, July and August of 2013 was $395. Seems a
little high to me, but again, it's the average for the whole nation.

So, assuming those numbers are close, 13 percent of $395 is $51.25.

Switching to LED lighting that consumes a fraction of the power would
have a serious impact on that cost. So, Hank's numbers don't sound
totally out of the ballpark.


My electric bills for the past year:


Payment Date Payment Amount
01/17/2014 $142.69
12/16/2013 $119.33
11/18/2013 $112.94
10/16/2013 $123.35
09/16/2013 $146.15
08/30/2013 $139.61
08/02/2013 $174.59
06/28/2013 $133.67
06/05/2013 $89.89
04/29/2013 $99.16
04/29/2013 $107.83
04/01/2013 $100.91

Average is $124.18. Wow. You've improved my disposition immensely with that post!

Do you also have a water bill and a gas bill? Add those to the
electric bill for an apples to apples comparison.


Apples to apples of what? We were talking about electricity costs and
specifically the cost for lighting.

If you have more people around or home more, the water usage goes up, as
well as gas.