On 11/13/2013 3:33 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:11:32 PM UTC-5, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,

says...



On 11/13/2013 12:13 PM, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 11:58:49 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



There are several of those cases working their way through the court

as we speak.





Florida? $25 fine, right?



2d degree misdemeanor

$500 and 60 days in jail for the first offense, if there are no other

charges present.



If you knowingly provided a weapon to a minor or anyone else who was

prohibited from having one you can get up into felony territory.







Here's the law in MA:



Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm,

rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons,

or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked

container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other

safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable

by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or

kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully

authorized user.



(b) A violation of this section shall be punished, in the case of a

firearm, rifle or shotgun that is not a large capacity weapon, by a fine

of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000 or by imprisonment for not

more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and in the

case of a large capacity weapon or machine gun, by a fine of not less

than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than

one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.





That's just for them finding out you didn't secure them as required.



The last sentence in (a) gives you an easy out.

Except that if you want to have quick access to one at night while
you sleep, it sounds like you must sleep with a holster. Having it
under the bed (12 gauge) or in a night stand drawer (9mm) doesn't
sound like it qualifies for that exemption. It has to either be
locked up, or in your hands/on your belt.



I don't interpret it that way. Having it on or in a nightstand beside
your bed qualifies as "under direct control" I think. Same as having
one in the center compartment of your truck or car. It doesn't have to
physically be "on" you in order to be "under direct control".

In reality, in this state I suspect there would be an investigation and
even preliminary charges brought against you, even if you shot an
intruder in the middle of the night. Where the guns are kept would
become a minor point. MA has a castle law that can be used in your
defense in the event of a shooting, but I suspect you would have to
convince everyone that it was self defense. It's a squishy law in a
squishy state when it comes to guns. Our governor, Deval Patrick (we
call him "Minnie Me") is intent on tightening gun control laws further
to the point where very few would qualify for a new permit or renewals
of existing permits.

On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 4:13:39 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/13/2013 3:33 PM, wrote:

Except that if you want to have quick access to one at night while
you sleep, it sounds like you must sleep with a holster. Having it
under the bed (12 gauge) or in a night stand drawer (9mm) doesn't
sound like it qualifies for that exemption. It has to either be
locked up, or in your hands/on your belt.

I don't interpret it that way. Having it on or in a nightstand beside
your bed qualifies as "under direct control" I think. Same as having
one in the center compartment of your truck or car. It doesn't have to
physically be "on" you in order to be "under direct control".


I suppose I tend to take things pretty literally. "Carried" is pretty clear. "Under my control" is a bit muddy, since under the bed doesn't seem like it's under my direct control. I do get your point, especially regarding that I'd have to lock things up every time I left the house.


In reality, in this state I suspect there would be an investigation and
even preliminary charges brought against you, even if you shot an
intruder in the middle of the night. Where the guns are kept would
become a minor point. MA has a castle law that can be used in your
defense in the event of a shooting, but I suspect you would have to
convince everyone that it was self defense. It's a squishy law in a
squishy state when it comes to guns. Our governor, Deval Patrick (we
call him "Minnie Me") is intent on tightening gun control laws further
to the point where very few would qualify for a new permit or renewals
of existing permits.

Fortunately, we are not to the point your state is in regard to gun restrictions. I can say that it has been years since anyone rode around with a gun rack in the rear window of their truck. Funny, it seems there was far less violent crime back in those days.

On 11/13/2013 4:43 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 4:13:39 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/13/2013 3:33 PM, wrote:

Except that if you want to have quick access to one at night while
you sleep, it sounds like you must sleep with a holster. Having it
under the bed (12 gauge) or in a night stand drawer (9mm) doesn't
sound like it qualifies for that exemption. It has to either be
locked up, or in your hands/on your belt.

I don't interpret it that way. Having it on or in a nightstand beside
your bed qualifies as "under direct control" I think. Same as having
one in the center compartment of your truck or car. It doesn't have to
physically be "on" you in order to be "under direct control".


I suppose I tend to take things pretty literally. "Carried" is pretty clear. "Under my control" is a bit muddy, since under the bed doesn't seem like it's under my direct control. I do get your point, especially regarding that I'd have to lock things up every time I left the house.


In reality, in this state I suspect there would be an investigation and
even preliminary charges brought against you, even if you shot an
intruder in the middle of the night. Where the guns are kept would
become a minor point. MA has a castle law that can be used in your
defense in the event of a shooting, but I suspect you would have to
convince everyone that it was self defense. It's a squishy law in a
squishy state when it comes to guns. Our governor, Deval Patrick (we
call him "Minnie Me") is intent on tightening gun control laws further
to the point where very few would qualify for a new permit or renewals
of existing permits.

Fortunately, we are not to the point your state is in regard to gun restrictions.
I can say that it has been years since anyone rode around with a gun
rack in the
rear window of their truck. Funny, it seems there was far less
violent crime back in those days.



That could never happen around here. If I had a gun rack in my truck
with a rifle in it, I'd be surrounded by 35 cops with lights flashing in
a matter of minutes.

What's weird is I can carry a loaded handgun on me (concealed) or have
one loaded in my center console (out of direct view) but if I want to
transport a shotgun or .22 rifle to the range legally, it must be
unloaded and within a solid, locked case or a soft case with a trigger
or breech lock installed.

On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:07:02 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 11/13/2013 4:43 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 4:13:39 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/13/2013 3:33 PM, wrote:

Except that if you want to have quick access to one at night while
you sleep, it sounds like you must sleep with a holster. Having it
under the bed (12 gauge) or in a night stand drawer (9mm) doesn't
sound like it qualifies for that exemption. It has to either be
locked up, or in your hands/on your belt.

I don't interpret it that way. Having it on or in a nightstand beside
your bed qualifies as "under direct control" I think. Same as having
one in the center compartment of your truck or car. It doesn't have to
physically be "on" you in order to be "under direct control".


I suppose I tend to take things pretty literally. "Carried" is pretty clear. "Under my control" is a bit muddy, since under the bed doesn't seem like it's under my direct control. I do get your point, especially regarding that I'd have to lock things up every time I left the house.


In reality, in this state I suspect there would be an investigation and
even preliminary charges brought against you, even if you shot an
intruder in the middle of the night. Where the guns are kept would
become a minor point. MA has a castle law that can be used in your
defense in the event of a shooting, but I suspect you would have to
convince everyone that it was self defense. It's a squishy law in a
squishy state when it comes to guns. Our governor, Deval Patrick (we
call him "Minnie Me") is intent on tightening gun control laws further
to the point where very few would qualify for a new permit or renewals
of existing permits.

Fortunately, we are not to the point your state is in regard to gun restrictions.
I can say that it has been years since anyone rode around with a gun
rack in the
rear window of their truck. Funny, it seems there was far less
violent crime back in those days.



That could never happen around here. If I had a gun rack in my truck
with a rifle in it, I'd be surrounded by 35 cops with lights flashing in
a matter of minutes.

What's weird is I can carry a loaded handgun on me (concealed) or have
one loaded in my center console (out of direct view) but if I want to
transport a shotgun or .22 rifle to the range legally, it must be
unloaded and within a solid, locked case or a soft case with a trigger
or breech lock installed.


I've never asked, but I wonder if you (or me) could carry a handgun in a holster in any of the
places we could carry one concealed.

I'll have to check into that. I'm seriously considering carrying one when I walk the dogs. There are
too many big, mean dogs being walked by little old women.

John H. -- Hope you're having a great day!

On 11/13/2013 5:53 PM, John H wrote:

On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:07:02 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


What's weird is I can carry a loaded handgun on me (concealed) or have
one loaded in my center console (out of direct view) but if I want to
transport a shotgun or .22 rifle to the range legally, it must be
unloaded and within a solid, locked case or a soft case with a trigger
or breech lock installed.


I've never asked, but I wonder if you (or me) could carry a handgun in a holster in any of the
places we could carry one concealed.

I'll have to check into that. I'm seriously considering carrying one when I walk the dogs. There are
too many big, mean dogs being walked by little old women.

John H. -- Hope you're having a great day!



I guess you are talking about "open carry" versus concealed.

I don't know about Virgina, but I know what would happen up here.

Massachusetts is technically an "open carry" state by virtue of the fact
that there is no specific law forbidding it. However:

Concealed carry permits ... in fact *any* type of firearm permit is at
the discretion of the local police chief or his designate. Walking
through town with an exposed holster and your favorite .45 strapped to
your waist is a sure way of having your gun permit revoked ... permanently.

There *is* a state law that covers concealed carry. It *must* be
concealed. If you pull out your concealed gun in a public place and
anyone feels threatened in the slightest way, it is a potential felony.

wrote:
On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 4:13:39 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/13/2013 3:33 PM, wrote:

Except that if you want to have quick access to one at night while
you sleep, it sounds like you must sleep with a holster. Having it
under the bed (12 gauge) or in a night stand drawer (9mm) doesn't
sound like it qualifies for that exemption. It has to either be
locked up, or in your hands/on your belt.

I don't interpret it that way. Having it on or in a nightstand beside
your bed qualifies as "under direct control" I think. Same as having
one in the center compartment of your truck or car. It doesn't have to
physically be "on" you in order to be "under direct control".


I suppose I tend to take things pretty literally. "Carried" is pretty
clear. "Under my control" is a bit muddy, since under the bed doesn't
seem like it's under my direct control. I do get your point, especially
regarding that I'd have to lock things up every time I left the house.


In reality, in this state I suspect there would be an investigation and
even preliminary charges brought against you, even if you shot an
intruder in the middle of the night. Where the guns are kept would
become a minor point. MA has a castle law that can be used in your
defense in the event of a shooting, but I suspect you would have to
convince everyone that it was self defense. It's a squishy law in a
squishy state when it comes to guns. Our governor, Deval Patrick (we
call him "Minnie Me") is intent on tightening gun control laws further
to the point where very few would qualify for a new permit or renewals
of existing permits.

Fortunately, we are not to the point your state is in regard to gun
restrictions. I can say that it has been years since anyone rode around
with a gun rack in the rear window of their truck. Funny, it seems there
was far less violent crime back in those days.

There was less violent crime, and these days, someone would break in to the
truck and steal the weapons. I think that we have had too many years of
lack of teaching children responsibility.