In article ,
says...

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 12:46:19 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:02:15 AM UTC-4, wrote:



That is why you have baggage fees, bigger seat fees and no free food
in coach.

The baggage fee has to be one of the worst things to ever happen to air travel. It encourages people to carry on larger bags instead of checking them, which slows the boarding process while the bags get crammed into the overhead. And of course no one puts their second bag under the seat, as they want to conserve the tiny bit of leg room the have.

Absolutely! It was bad enough when people were punished by the time it
took to check and get baggage, now it's worse, and the airlines are
doing a crappy job of checking carry on size.

I heard a Delta CEO saying this was one of those things driven by
bottom feeders. They wrote letters complaining about why they had to
pay for baggage handlers they never used and food they didn't want.
It is just part of the clamor for the lowest price possible for those
people who refuse to pay extra for any kind of service.
It is the like difference between going to a full service hardware
store and Home Depot.

Or going to a full service department store and Wal-Mart.

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:13:21 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...


I heard a Delta CEO saying this was one of those things driven by
bottom feeders. They wrote letters complaining about why they had to
pay for baggage handlers they never used and food they didn't want.
It is just part of the clamor for the lowest price possible for those
people who refuse to pay extra for any kind of service.
It is the like difference between going to a full service hardware
store and Home Depot.

Or going to a full service department store and Wal-Mart.

Exactly. I am not sure when we decided price was more important than
service and quality (probably around 1980-90) but things have gone
down hill since then.
I have figured out that on our vacations where we pack a lot of stuff
with us, the first class ticket is not really that much more money
than an unrestricted coach ticket by the time you tacked on all the
baggage fees, big seat fee and the other crap.
It is certainly worth it to us. They also seem to treat you nicer when
things go wrong.
I ended up getting 35,000 airline points out of our flight delays on
the last trip. That is more than enough for a free first class upgrade
next time. We could have bought a free change of clothes in Detroit if
we wanted. It just wasn't easy and We had some clothes in the carry
on.
This wasn't our first rodeo ;-)

We did stay in that Westin right in the airport. If you are getting
detained at DTW, that is the way to do it. You walk directly into the
lobby from concourse A and they have their own TSA gate to get back to
the plane the next day.

I haven't been there since before TSA, but Tampa has or had a nice hotel
on premises.

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:22:32 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:


We did stay in that Westin right in the airport. If you are getting
detained at DTW, that is the way to do it. You walk directly into the
lobby from concourse A and they have their own TSA gate to get back to
the plane the next day.

I haven't been there since before TSA, but Tampa has or had a nice hotel
on premises.

I never had a reason to look at hotels in Tampa. I had a place 15
miles away

I had one that close as well. But, I had a friend who had a Delta Sky
Club membership and when he was in town he'd stay at the hotel and we'd
meet there.

In article ,
says...


Exactly. I am not sure when we decided price was more important than
service and quality (probably around 1980-90) but things have gone
down hill since then.

---------------------------

That's about the same time frame that health insurance plans
introduced "HMOs". People loved the fact that they could just pay $5
for a doctor's office visit. Look what happened.

People looking for cheap deals usually get exactly what they want and
eventually they pay the price.

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
In article ,
says...


Exactly. I am not sure when we decided price was more important than
service and quality (probably around 1980-90) but things have gone
down hill since then.

---------------------------

That's about the same time frame that health insurance plans introduced
"HMOs". People loved the fact that they could just pay $5 for a
doctor's office visit. Look what happened.

People looking for cheap deals usually get exactly what they want and
eventually they pay the price.

HMO's were a lot earlier than 1980. Kaiser System was probably the
original.

In article 1689780668398369554.939912bmckeenospam-
, says...

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
In article ,
says...


Exactly. I am not sure when we decided price was more important than
service and quality (probably around 1980-90) but things have gone
down hill since then.

---------------------------

That's about the same time frame that health insurance plans introduced
"HMOs". People loved the fact that they could just pay $5 for a
doctor's office visit. Look what happened.

People looking for cheap deals usually get exactly what they want and
eventually they pay the price.

HMO's were a lot earlier than 1980. Kaiser System was probably the
original.

Yes, and it's still a very good system.

"Califbill" wrote in message
...

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
In article ,
says...


Exactly. I am not sure when we decided price was more important than
service and quality (probably around 1980-90) but things have gone
down hill since then.

---------------------------

That's about the same time frame that health insurance plans
introduced
"HMOs". People loved the fact that they could just pay $5 for a
doctor's office visit. Look what happened.

People looking for cheap deals usually get exactly what they want
and
eventually they pay the price.

HMO's were a lot earlier than 1980. Kaiser System was probably the
original.

-----------------

I am sure HMO's were around but as I recall, it was early in the
1980's when they became popular in general. Before them we had
basic, Major Medical health insurance that was very affordable.
Covered catastrophic injuries and diseases but didn't cover running to
the doctor with a runny nose .

On 8/16/13 4:43 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"Califbill" wrote in message
...


"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
In article ,
says...


Exactly. I am not sure when we decided price was more important than
service and quality (probably around 1980-90) but things have gone
down hill since then.

---------------------------

That's about the same time frame that health insurance plans introduced
"HMOs". People loved the fact that they could just pay $5 for a
doctor's office visit. Look what happened.

People looking for cheap deals usually get exactly what they want and
eventually they pay the price.

HMO's were a lot earlier than 1980. Kaiser System was probably the
original.

-----------------

I am sure HMO's were around but as I recall, it was early in the 1980's
when they became popular in general. Before them we had basic, Major
Medical health insurance that was very affordable. Covered catastrophic
injuries and diseases but didn't cover running to the doctor with a
runny nose .



HMO's...many of them have a terrible rep, which they have worked hard to
earn. My union's "provider" is a PPO, which seems to work pretty well.

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 8/16/13 4:43 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"Califbill" wrote in message
...


"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
In article ,
says...


Exactly. I am not sure when we decided price was more important
than
service and quality (probably around 1980-90) but things have gone
down hill since then.

---------------------------

That's about the same time frame that health insurance plans
introduced
"HMOs". People loved the fact that they could just pay $5 for a
doctor's office visit. Look what happened.

People looking for cheap deals usually get exactly what they want
and
eventually they pay the price.

HMO's were a lot earlier than 1980. Kaiser System was probably the
original.

-----------------

I am sure HMO's were around but as I recall, it was early in the
1980's
when they became popular in general. Before them we had basic,
Major
Medical health insurance that was very affordable. Covered
catastrophic
injuries and diseases but didn't cover running to the doctor with a
runny nose .



HMO's...many of them have a terrible rep, which they have worked hard
to
earn. My union's "provider" is a PPO, which seems to work pretty well.

----------------------

I lump them together in terms of causing an escalation in health care
insurance costs. It was the consumer who really screwed it up,
looking for "cheap" doctor visits in the form of $5 co-pays.

HMOs begat PPOs and the consumer interest in "cheap" health care
continued. There was nothing wrong with having a major medical
insurance plan to protect against financial disaster due to a serious
injury or illness. You paid a reasonable fee for checkups and the
occasional visit to the doctor with the flu. Now-a-days people run
to the doctor with a hangnail and he orders up a series of MRIs and CT
scans to make sure the hangnail hasn't caused any other problems.

In article ,
says...

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
In article ,
says...


Exactly. I am not sure when we decided price was more important than
service and quality (probably around 1980-90) but things have gone
down hill since then.

---------------------------

That's about the same time frame that health insurance plans introduced
"HMOs". People loved the fact that they could just pay $5 for a
doctor's office visit. Look what happened.

People looking for cheap deals usually get exactly what they want and
eventually they pay the price.

HMO's were a lot earlier than 1980. Kaiser System was probably the
original.

*******s screwed up the medical services market.