American Airlines and US Airways vowed Tuesday to fight the Justice
Department lawsuit that seeks to block their planned merger because of
concerns that travelers would pay hundreds of millions more for fares
and fees.

Investors dumped both stocks after the lawsuit was announced Tuesday
morning. US Airways shares were down $2.46, or 13%, for the day, and
American was down $2.64, or 45%.

The airlines had anticipated merging within months to create the world's
largest airline to better compete against United and Delta airlines. But
the lawsuit that argues travelers would face hundreds of millions of
dollars in higher fares and fees will at least hinder and could block
those plans.

"While shareholders might benefit, creditors might benefit from
consolidation, the fact of the matter is, consumers will get the shaft,"
Bill Baer, assistant attorney general for the antitrust division, told
reporters in a conference call. "The right option here is a full-stop
injunction."

The department argued that the competition -- and lower prices -- would
be lost at more than 1,000 pairs of cities where the airlines compete
with connecting flights.

---

Airline service is bad enough already, and further consolidation will
only make it worse.

On 8/13/13 9:28 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2013 17:27:05 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

American Airlines and US Airways vowed Tuesday to fight the Justice
Department lawsuit that seeks to block their planned merger because of
concerns that travelers would pay hundreds of millions more for fares
and fees.

Investors dumped both stocks after the lawsuit was announced Tuesday
morning. US Airways shares were down $2.46, or 13%, for the day, and
American was down $2.64, or 45%.

The airlines had anticipated merging within months to create the world's
largest airline to better compete against United and Delta airlines. But
the lawsuit that argues travelers would face hundreds of millions of
dollars in higher fares and fees will at least hinder and could block
those plans.

"While shareholders might benefit, creditors might benefit from
consolidation, the fact of the matter is, consumers will get the shaft,"
Bill Baer, assistant attorney general for the antitrust division, told
reporters in a conference call. "The right option here is a full-stop
injunction."

The department argued that the competition -- and lower prices -- would
be lost at more than 1,000 pairs of cities where the airlines compete
with connecting flights.

---

Airline service is bad enough already, and further consolidation will
only make it worse.

Get off the extra money and fly first class. They still treat you nice
there.
Expedited TSA screening, boarding, quicker luggage (3 for free up to
75 pounds each), free drinks and food, bigger seats and they usually
know your name.


Flying first class isn't going to help if there are significant cuts in
the number of flights out of many airports, and airline service will
only deteriorate further if flight prices and fees go up a lot more,
because even more passengers will stay off the planes, causing more
cutbacks in service and higher fees.

We used to fly up to NYC several times a year for business and for
pleasure. Now, when we go, we take the train and when we go to the New
Haven area, we either take the train or drive.

The airlines have turned flying into misery, and I'm not referring to
the TSA antics, which usually only take a couple of minutes, even at
busy airports like National. Oh, and the food in first class? It's not
very good on US-flagged airlines.

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:02:15 AM UTC-4, wrote:



That is why you have baggage fees, bigger seat fees and no free food
in coach.

The baggage fee has to be one of the worst things to ever happen to air travel. It encourages people to carry on larger bags instead of checking them, which slows the boarding process while the bags get crammed into the overhead. And of course no one puts their second bag under the seat, as they want to conserve the tiny bit of leg room the have.

In article ,
says...

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:02:15 AM UTC-4, wrote:



That is why you have baggage fees, bigger seat fees and no free food
in coach.

The baggage fee has to be one of the worst things to ever happen to air travel. It encourages people to carry on larger bags instead of checking them, which slows the boarding process while the bags get crammed into the overhead. And of course no one puts their second bag under the seat, as they want to conserve the tiny bit of leg room the have.

Absolutely! It was bad enough when people were punished by the time it
took to check and get baggage, now it's worse, and the airlines are
doing a crappy job of checking carry on size.

wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 06:26:43 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 8/13/13 9:28 PM, wrote:

Get off the extra money and fly first class. They still treat you nice
there.
Expedited TSA screening, boarding, quicker luggage (3 for free up to
75 pounds each), free drinks and food, bigger seats and they usually
know your name.


Flying first class isn't going to help if there are significant cuts in
the number of flights out of many airports, and airline service will
only deteriorate further if flight prices and fees go up a lot more,
because even more passengers will stay off the planes, causing more
cutbacks in service and higher fees.

We used to fly up to NYC several times a year for business and for
pleasure. Now, when we go, we take the train and when we go to the New
Haven area, we either take the train or drive.

The airlines have turned flying into misery, and I'm not referring to
the TSA antics, which usually only take a couple of minutes, even at
busy airports like National. Oh, and the food in first class? It's not
very good on US-flagged airlines.

They will have as many flights as they can fill up.
I agree the chances if empty seats is greater if you have more
airlines but I doubt the service will be any better. Just like Walmart
and IBM, the consumer has voted with their wallet and they are willing
to accept ****ty service or no service at all if they can get
something cheaper,
That is why you have baggage fees, bigger seat fees and no free food
in coach.
People still want to fly coast to coast for $99 and they don't care if
they have to fly in the cargo hold.

They are canceling flights to combine them as they would lose too much
money on a nearly empty flight.

On 8/14/13 11:02 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 06:26:43 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 8/13/13 9:28 PM, wrote:

Get off the extra money and fly first class. They still treat you nice
there.
Expedited TSA screening, boarding, quicker luggage (3 for free up to
75 pounds each), free drinks and food, bigger seats and they usually
know your name.


Flying first class isn't going to help if there are significant cuts in
the number of flights out of many airports, and airline service will
only deteriorate further if flight prices and fees go up a lot more,
because even more passengers will stay off the planes, causing more
cutbacks in service and higher fees.

We used to fly up to NYC several times a year for business and for
pleasure. Now, when we go, we take the train and when we go to the New
Haven area, we either take the train or drive.

The airlines have turned flying into misery, and I'm not referring to
the TSA antics, which usually only take a couple of minutes, even at
busy airports like National. Oh, and the food in first class? It's not
very good on US-flagged airlines.

They will have as many flights as they can fill up.
I agree the chances if empty seats is greater if you have more
airlines but I doubt the service will be any better. Just like Walmart
and IBM, the consumer has voted with their wallet and they are willing
to accept ****ty service or no service at all if they can get
something cheaper,
That is why you have baggage fees, bigger seat fees and no free food
in coach.
People still want to fly coast to coast for $99 and they don't care if
they have to fly in the cargo hold.


Nowadays, picking a domestic flight also includes consideration of which
airline, if you have choices, is the least lousy. Virgin is a bit ahead
of the curve. JetBlue was ok for a while, but has slid down into the
primordial soup with the rest of the crappy airlines. If you are heading
for Europe or the Orient, there are foreign-flag airlines that offer
better "rides" than the U.S. lines.

On our last pre-9/11 flight to Hawaii, we brought along a small cooler
with fruit, a couple of drinks we like and a couple of first-rate
sandwiches. Can't do that anymore.

On 8/15/13 4:32 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 17:32:12 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On our last pre-9/11 flight to Hawaii, we brought along a small cooler
with fruit, a couple of drinks we like and a couple of first-rate
sandwiches. Can't do that anymore.

You can buy drinks and sandwiches in the sterile area of the airport
but they are probably not "first rate" at most small airports.


The sandwiches are not first-rate at the larger airports, either, and on
a long flight without a cooler, you can't keep them from deteriorating.

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 12:46:19 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:02:15 AM UTC-4, wrote:



That is why you have baggage fees, bigger seat fees and no free food
in coach.

The baggage fee has to be one of the worst things to ever happen to air travel. It encourages people to carry on larger bags instead of checking them, which slows the boarding process while the bags get crammed into the overhead. And of course no one puts their second bag under the seat, as they want to conserve the tiny bit of leg room the have.

Absolutely! It was bad enough when people were punished by the time it
took to check and get baggage, now it's worse, and the airlines are
doing a crappy job of checking carry on size.

I heard a Delta CEO saying this was one of those things driven by
bottom feeders. They wrote letters complaining about why they had to
pay for baggage handlers they never used and food they didn't want.
It is just part of the clamor for the lowest price possible for those
people who refuse to pay extra for any kind of service.
It is the like difference between going to a full service hardware
store and Home Depot.

Or going to a full service department store and Wal-Mart.

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:13:21 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...


I heard a Delta CEO saying this was one of those things driven by
bottom feeders. They wrote letters complaining about why they had to
pay for baggage handlers they never used and food they didn't want.
It is just part of the clamor for the lowest price possible for those
people who refuse to pay extra for any kind of service.
It is the like difference between going to a full service hardware
store and Home Depot.

Or going to a full service department store and Wal-Mart.

Exactly. I am not sure when we decided price was more important than
service and quality (probably around 1980-90) but things have gone
down hill since then.
I have figured out that on our vacations where we pack a lot of stuff
with us, the first class ticket is not really that much more money
than an unrestricted coach ticket by the time you tacked on all the
baggage fees, big seat fee and the other crap.
It is certainly worth it to us. They also seem to treat you nicer when
things go wrong.
I ended up getting 35,000 airline points out of our flight delays on
the last trip. That is more than enough for a free first class upgrade
next time. We could have bought a free change of clothes in Detroit if
we wanted. It just wasn't easy and We had some clothes in the carry
on.
This wasn't our first rodeo ;-)

We did stay in that Westin right in the airport. If you are getting
detained at DTW, that is the way to do it. You walk directly into the
lobby from concourse A and they have their own TSA gate to get back to
the plane the next day.

I haven't been there since before TSA, but Tampa has or had a nice hotel
on premises.

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 8/15/13 4:32 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 17:32:12 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On our last pre-9/11 flight to Hawaii, we brought along a small cooler
with fruit, a couple of drinks we like and a couple of first-rate
sandwiches. Can't do that anymore.

You can buy drinks and sandwiches in the sterile area of the airport
but they are probably not "first rate" at most small airports.


The sandwiches are not first-rate at the larger airports, either, and on
a long flight without a cooler, you can't keep them from deteriorating.

In you are flying on really long flights they furnish food anyway. Some
may be crap, and some you may have to pay for, but is not expensive.