On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking
towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential
suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full
of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so
many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death.

....

Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was
handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible.
So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a
full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons
can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity
magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone
alive?


I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have
had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is
necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or
perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two
guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really
bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their
firearms.

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message ...

On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started
walking
towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential
suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him
full
of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had
so
many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his
death.

....

Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was
handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible.
So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that
had a
full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two
weapons
can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large
capacity
magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture
someone
alive?


I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might
have
had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is
necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or
perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or
two
guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really
bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their
firearms.

---------------------------------------

I don't know about that because I have only limited experience
witnessing law enforcement people shooting at the range.
The four that I know ... a local cop, two state cops and another who
works for homeland defense in some capacity are all phenomenal
marksmen. Intuitively I suspect the average Boston cop who pounds a
daily beat on foot probably isn't a great shot but I suspect many of
the SWAT team and special operations units that were involved in
hunting down the marathon bombers are excellent marksmen.

Also, I doubt very much the actions taken were a free-for-all. Orders
to open fire must have been coordinated with those in charge.
That's why I don't get the action of opening fire on the guy in the
boat, sight unseen, if the goal was to capture him alive. They
couldn't have known if he was armed, had a bomb, or was even still
breathing. There are no reports of the suspect opening fire first.
It was *after* that exchange ... well, it really wasn't an "exchange"
.... that a negotiator got involved and had the suspect stand up and
lift his shirt to demonstrate he was unarmed and "unbombed".

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 11:55:56 -0400, wrote:

BTW I hope that guy has good insurance on his boat. I think it was
beat up a bit in the siege.
OTOH it is probably more valuable now.

====

Supposedly he has donations coming in from all over the place.

On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking
towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential
suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full
of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so
many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death.

...

Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was
handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible.
So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a
full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons
can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity
magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone
alive?


I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have
had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is
necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or
perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two
guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really
bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their
firearms.


I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.



At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops,
and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven
yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them
can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target.

On 4/21/2013 12:38 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking
towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential
suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full
of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so
many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death.

...

Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was
handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible.
So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a
full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons
can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity
magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture
someone
alive?


I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have
had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is
necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or
perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two
guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really
bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their
firearms.


I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.



At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops,
and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven
yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them
can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the
target.

Why are you practicing killing people 75 feet away. That's not very
sporting. It's more like a CANNED HUNT.

On 4/21/2013 12:51 PM, Hank© wrote:
On 4/21/2013 12:38 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking
towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential
suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full
of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so
many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death.

...

Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was
handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible.
So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that
had a
full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two
weapons
can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity
magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture
someone
alive?


I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might
have
had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is
necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or
perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two
guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really
bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their
firearms.


I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.



At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops,
and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven
yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them
can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the
target.

Why are you practicing killing people 75 feet away. That's not very
sporting. It's more like a CANNED HUNT.

Harry sits around all day fantasizing about finally shooting a real human..

On 4/21/13 8:09 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 4/21/2013 12:51 PM, Hank© wrote:
On 4/21/2013 12:38 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking
towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential
suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him
full
of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he
had so
many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his
death.

...

Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was
handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible.
So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that
had a
full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two
weapons
can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity
magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture
someone
alive?


I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might
have
had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is
necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or
perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or
two
guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really
bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their
firearms.


I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.



At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops,
and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven
yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them
can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the
target.

Why are you practicing killing people 75 feet away. That's not very
sporting. It's more like a CANNED HUNT.

Harry sits around all day fantasizing about finally shooting a real human..


Not at all, but if you make good on your threats and perpetrate a home
invasion down here, your family may well get its wish.

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking
towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential
suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full
of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so
many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death.

...

Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was
handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible.
So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a
full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons
can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity
magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone
alive?


I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have
had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is
necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or
perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two
guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really
bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their
firearms.


I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.



At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops,
and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven
yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them
can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target.

Believeable? Nah.

Got 'special circumstances', FOAD?


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking
towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential
suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full
of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so
many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death.

...

Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was
handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible.
So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a
full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons
can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity
magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone
alive?


I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have
had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is
necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or
perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two
guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really
bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their
firearms.


I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.



At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops,
and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven
yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them
can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target.

Is it OK to quote you on their Facebook page? I'd use your real name, not **** Off or Eat ****...

https://www.facebook.com/MarylandSmallArmsRange


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 13:48:59 -0400, J Herring wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking
towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential
suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full
of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so
many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death.

...

Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was
handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible.
So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a
full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons
can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity
magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone
alive?


I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have
had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is
necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or
perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two
guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really
bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their
firearms.


I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.



At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops,
and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven
yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them
can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target.

Is it OK to quote you on their Facebook page? I'd use your real name, not **** Off or Eat ****...

https://www.facebook.com/MarylandSmallArmsRange


Salmonbait

~~~crickets~~~~


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.