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In article , says...
On 1/12/2013 10:30 AM, Salmonbait wrote: On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 10:05:30 -0500, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 9:59 AM, Salmonbait wrote: On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 08:54:12 -0500, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 8:44 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 6:23 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:21 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 11, 2:27 pm, ESAD wrote: I had in-laws who tried to pull that crap on me at a family gathering in Florida. They were trying to hustle funds for a trip their church was planning to take to somewhere in Central America to proselytize. Or maybe it was South America. One or the other. Basically, they were heading into some backwoods areas in attempts to convert indigenous Catholics into Southern Baptists, and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera. "Indigenous Catholics?" And what were the indigenous before they were Catholics? "and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera." is it wrong to help people improve their health and their lives? " What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." James 2:14-17 What were the indigenous peoples before they were catholics? They had their own culture and their own religions *before* the Europeans came along and destroyed both. Interesting quote you provided...sort of a justification for proselytizing and destroying a people and a culture. It's damned wrong to go to some backwater area and offer help to people if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours. Harry I have no idea where you get the notion of " if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours." That isn't written in the scripture, it isn't even applied. I have no idea why you feel you need to conjure up these things. Really? What do evangelical missionaries do? Answer: they preach christianity to others with the object of conversion, and many times in history those conversions were accomplished with the threat of death. Cite? http://tinyurl.com/o42at Here you go, ignorant asshole: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_conversion 'Evangelical missionaries' are not mentioned once. So from where came your bull****, ESAD? Here? http://tinyurl.com/o42at I was just talking to Tim about that... Democrats win with the question, never even caring about the answers... Well, perhaps Tim, who IS a REAL Christian will enlighten you as to why it's not right for a group to take a 10 year old girl 100's of miles from home and try to talk her into being born again without consulting her parents. He gets it, you CINO's don't seem to. |
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On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 12:32:31 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says... On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 10:47:32 -0500, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 10:43 AM, Salmonbait wrote: On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 10:29:23 -0500, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 10:30 AM, Salmonbait wrote: On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 10:05:30 -0500, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 9:59 AM, Salmonbait wrote: On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 08:54:12 -0500, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 8:44 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 6:23 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:21 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 11, 2:27 pm, ESAD wrote: I had in-laws who tried to pull that crap on me at a family gathering in Florida. They were trying to hustle funds for a trip their church was planning to take to somewhere in Central America to proselytize. Or maybe it was South America. One or the other. Basically, they were heading into some backwoods areas in attempts to convert indigenous Catholics into Southern Baptists, and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera. "Indigenous Catholics?" And what were the indigenous before they were Catholics? "and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera." is it wrong to help people improve their health and their lives? " What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." James 2:14-17 What were the indigenous peoples before they were catholics? They had their own culture and their own religions *before* the Europeans came along and destroyed both. Interesting quote you provided...sort of a justification for proselytizing and destroying a people and a culture. It's damned wrong to go to some backwater area and offer help to people if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours. Harry I have no idea where you get the notion of " if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours." That isn't written in the scripture, it isn't even applied. I have no idea why you feel you need to conjure up these things. Really? What do evangelical missionaries do? Answer: they preach christianity to others with the object of conversion, and many times in history those conversions were accomplished with the threat of death. Cite? http://tinyurl.com/o42at Here you go, ignorant asshole: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_conversion 'Evangelical missionaries' are not mentioned once. So from where came your bull****, ESAD? Are you channeling iLoogy? Are you unable to prove your bull****? Salmonbait There's a line or two in the piece that discusses forced conversions done by missionaries. The Baptist Church of Tripura is alleged to have supplied the NLFT with arms and financial support and to have encouraged the murder of Hindus, particularly infants, as a means to depopulate the region of all Hindus.[49] In 2009, the Assam Times reported that about fifteen armed Hmar militants, members of Manmasi National Christian Army, tried to force Hindu residents of Bhuvan Pahar, Assam to convert to Christianity.[50] A Few Christian evangelists in India have been accused forced conversion of Hindus, and some of them have been jailed for forcefully converting.[51][52] Archbishop Moras, refuting these allegation of forced conversions and the charges of conversions against the Christian missionaries, said "We do not believe in forced conversions" "It is easy to charge people with wrong allegations but difficult to stop evil powers that are working against Christians".[53] There has been plenty written about forced conversions perpetrated by christians on people of different faiths. Easy enough for even a moron like you to find, eh? If you don't want to go back to the time of the Romans, you can always check out the Inquisition. A line or two of 'allegations' does not support your statement, oh wise ESAD! Salmonbait They are facts, not allegations, idiot. Read the article, Kevin. It must be really dark where your head is, right? Salmonbait -- **Those who think they can be happy and prosperous by letting the Government take care of them better take a closer look at the American Indian.** |
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On 1/12/2013 7:02 AM, Salmonbait wrote:
I should have said, "What did your sister expect when she allowed her daughter to go on a weekend trip with a Baptist church group - no religion?" There's that binary thinking again. There's a difference between presenting information in a comfortable environment and more intense coercion involving threats. Baptists tend toward the latter from my limited experience. |
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On 1/12/2013 2:08 PM, thumper wrote:
On 1/12/2013 7:02 AM, Salmonbait wrote: I should have said, "What did your sister expect when she allowed her daughter to go on a weekend trip with a Baptist church group - no religion?" There's that binary thinking again. There's a difference between presenting information in a comfortable environment and more intense coercion involving threats. Baptists tend toward the latter from my limited experience. So you are speculating that this "brainwashing" actually happened, pretty much because it fits in with your agenda... I get it.. |
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On 1/12/13 2:20 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/12/2013 2:08 PM, thumper wrote: On 1/12/2013 7:02 AM, Salmonbait wrote: I should have said, "What did your sister expect when she allowed her daughter to go on a weekend trip with a Baptist church group - no religion?" There's that binary thinking again. There's a difference between presenting information in a comfortable environment and more intense coercion involving threats. Baptists tend toward the latter from my limited experience. So you are speculating that this "brainwashing" actually happened, pretty much because it fits in with your agenda... I get it.. A brainwash might do you some good, so long as you did it at a low temp so you didn't have any more shrinkage. Might get rid of some of that smut talk you like so much. |
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On 1/12/2013 3:41 AM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 2:02 am, thumper wrote: On 1/11/2013 11:26 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 12:31 am, thumper wrote: On 1/11/2013 12:19 PM, Salmonbait wrote: If your sister was more than a dunce, she would not have allowed your niece to go with a church group. What the hell did she expect? Exactly, what kind of idiot would trust a church group with a child? ;-) Me. As a kid, I attended lots of church functions, camps and gatherings. had a lot of fun too. ?;^ ) My sarcasm wasn't obvious? Just teasing John. OK. Sometimes I dont' catch on. There's an old saying about Grandma being old, that applies with me....sometimes I went to youth camps and activities also. Some were fun but the best part was just playing with other kids during free time, not the structured lessons and activities. |
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On Jan 12, 7:54*am, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 8:44 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 6:23 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:21 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 11, 2:27 pm, ESAD wrote: I had in-laws who tried to pull that crap on me at a family gathering in Florida. They were trying to hustle funds for a trip their church was planning to take to somewhere in Central America to proselytize. Or maybe it was South America. One or the other. Basically, they were heading into some backwoods areas in attempts to convert indigenous Catholics into Southern Baptists, and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera. "Indigenous Catholics?" *And what were the indigenous before they were Catholics? "and, as bait, they were bringing along *church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera." is it wrong to help people improve their health and their lives? " What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? *Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. *If one of you says to them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? *In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." James 2:14-17 What were the indigenous peoples before they were catholics? They had their own culture and their own religions *before* the Europeans came along and destroyed both. Interesting quote you provided...sort of a justification for proselytizing and destroying a people and a culture. It's damned wrong to go to some backwater area and offer help to people if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours. Harry I have no idea where you get the notion of " if only they will * give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours." That isn't written in the scripture, it isn't even applied. *I have no idea why you feel you need to conjure up these things. Really? What do evangelical missionaries do? Answer: they preach Christianity to others with the object of conversion, and many times in history those conversions were accomplished with the threat of death. Yeah, a 'history of death'' by ungodly people under the guise of doing the work of Christ. But if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . But you were making a point that there was some kind of a 'bargaining' that was to happen. like medical, shelter, clothing, food, ...firewood. You give the impression that missionaries use Christianity as some kind of a tool. You either convert, or you don't get the goods. There is non of that. Again, if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . |
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On Jan 12, 8:49*am, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 9:50 AM, Salmonbait wrote: On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:26:58 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 12:31 am, thumper wrote: On 1/11/2013 12:19 PM, Salmonbait wrote: If your sister was more than a dunce, she would not have allowed your niece to go with a church group. What the hell did she expect? Exactly, what kind of idiot would trust a church group with a child? ;-) Me. *As a kid, I attended lots of church functions, camps and gatherings. had a lot of fun too. ?;^ ) And I'll bet your uncle didn't talk about your mom letting you go and get 'brainwashed'. Hell, church picnics and potlucks were, and are, the best eatin' around! Really? Several of our local churches sell "churchlady" cooked food a few times a year to raise funds. Perfectly legit. Last summer, we bought two "barbecue" meals from one of those churches, barbecued chicken and barbecued ribs. The chicken was overdone, dry, and pretty much tasteless, the sauce on the ribs tasted like melted sugar, and the coleslaw and potato salad came from Safeway. Hardly "the best eatin' around," unless you like bad cooking. Harry, by buying those meals, it sounds to me like you're supporting churches who support missionaries Who want to convert others by cramming religion down their throats. Not good!! |
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On 1/12/2013 6:43 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article , lid says... On 1/11/2013 12:19 PM, Salmonbait wrote: If your sister was more than a dunce, she would not have allowed your niece to go with a church group. What the hell did she expect? Exactly, what kind of idiot would trust a church group with a child? ;-) She wanted to go, and a decent parent sometimes lets the reins out a little. As far as calling my sister an idiot, you must be a real big cowardly asshole. Hide behind usenet, call someone an idiot that isn't even part of the group. Are you sure you aren't one of those "compassionate Christians" too? um... I thought the meaning was clear, even included a winking smiley... I was teasing John. |
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On 1/12/2013 2:28 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 7:54 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 8:44 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 6:23 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:21 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 11, 2:27 pm, ESAD wrote: I had in-laws who tried to pull that crap on me at a family gathering in Florida. They were trying to hustle funds for a trip their church was planning to take to somewhere in Central America to proselytize. Or maybe it was South America. One or the other. Basically, they were heading into some backwoods areas in attempts to convert indigenous Catholics into Southern Baptists, and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera. "Indigenous Catholics?" And what were the indigenous before they were Catholics? "and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera." is it wrong to help people improve their health and their lives? " What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." James 2:14-17 What were the indigenous peoples before they were catholics? They had their own culture and their own religions *before* the Europeans came along and destroyed both. Interesting quote you provided...sort of a justification for proselytizing and destroying a people and a culture. It's damned wrong to go to some backwater area and offer help to people if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours. Harry I have no idea where you get the notion of " if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours." That isn't written in the scripture, it isn't even applied. I have no idea why you feel you need to conjure up these things. Really? What do evangelical missionaries do? Answer: they preach Christianity to others with the object of conversion, and many times in history those conversions were accomplished with the threat of death. Yeah, a 'history of death'' by ungodly people under the guise of doing the work of Christ. But if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . But you were making a point that there was some kind of a 'bargaining' that was to happen. like medical, shelter, clothing, food, ...firewood. You give the impression that missionaries use Christianity as some kind of a tool. You either convert, or you don't get the goods. There is non of that. Again, if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . Tim.. the only reason they are making up stories in the third person is because not one of them can actually prove "religion is being shoved down their throats". Remember, the devil is in the dishonest question.. the answers or truth are irrelevant. Remember Candy Crowley... the narrative won over truth by a landslide... |
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On 1/12/2013 2:34 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 8:49 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 9:50 AM, Salmonbait wrote: On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:26:58 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 12:31 am, thumper wrote: On 1/11/2013 12:19 PM, Salmonbait wrote: If your sister was more than a dunce, she would not have allowed your niece to go with a church group. What the hell did she expect? Exactly, what kind of idiot would trust a church group with a child? ;-) Me. As a kid, I attended lots of church functions, camps and gatherings. had a lot of fun too. ?;^ ) And I'll bet your uncle didn't talk about your mom letting you go and get 'brainwashed'. Hell, church picnics and potlucks were, and are, the best eatin' around! Really? Several of our local churches sell "churchlady" cooked food a few times a year to raise funds. Perfectly legit. Last summer, we bought two "barbecue" meals from one of those churches, barbecued chicken and barbecued ribs. The chicken was overdone, dry, and pretty much tasteless, the sauce on the ribs tasted like melted sugar, and the coleslaw and potato salad came from Safeway. Hardly "the best eatin' around," unless you like bad cooking. Harry, by buying those meals, it sounds to me like you're supporting churches who support missionaries Who want to convert others by cramming religion down their throats. Not good!! What it sounds like is another harrytale... Anybody who has ever been to a church dinner, or pretty much any real "club" dinner knows 99% of the time, the food is prepared by folks who love what they do, and it's great.... Unless of course the "club" sees harry coming and spits in his food, which would not be a surprise at all. Either way, here we see again a dishonest narrative leading to another red herring... |
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On 1/12/13 2:28 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 7:54 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 8:44 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 6:23 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:21 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 11, 2:27 pm, ESAD wrote: I had in-laws who tried to pull that crap on me at a family gathering in Florida. They were trying to hustle funds for a trip their church was planning to take to somewhere in Central America to proselytize. Or maybe it was South America. One or the other. Basically, they were heading into some backwoods areas in attempts to convert indigenous Catholics into Southern Baptists, and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera. "Indigenous Catholics?" And what were the indigenous before they were Catholics? "and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera." is it wrong to help people improve their health and their lives? " What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." James 2:14-17 What were the indigenous peoples before they were catholics? They had their own culture and their own religions *before* the Europeans came along and destroyed both. Interesting quote you provided...sort of a justification for proselytizing and destroying a people and a culture. It's damned wrong to go to some backwater area and offer help to people if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours. Harry I have no idea where you get the notion of " if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours." That isn't written in the scripture, it isn't even applied. I have no idea why you feel you need to conjure up these things. Really? What do evangelical missionaries do? Answer: they preach Christianity to others with the object of conversion, and many times in history those conversions were accomplished with the threat of death. Yeah, a 'history of death'' by ungodly people under the guise of doing the work of Christ. But if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . But you were making a point that there was some kind of a 'bargaining' that was to happen. like medical, shelter, clothing, food, ...firewood. You give the impression that missionaries use Christianity as some kind of a tool. You either convert, or you don't get the goods. There is non of that. Again, if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . You either listen to the message or you get...nothing. That's the case with some missionaries in Central and South America. |
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On 1/12/13 2:34 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 8:49 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 9:50 AM, Salmonbait wrote: On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:26:58 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 12:31 am, thumper wrote: On 1/11/2013 12:19 PM, Salmonbait wrote: If your sister was more than a dunce, she would not have allowed your niece to go with a church group. What the hell did she expect? Exactly, what kind of idiot would trust a church group with a child? ;-) Me. As a kid, I attended lots of church functions, camps and gatherings. had a lot of fun too. ?;^ ) And I'll bet your uncle didn't talk about your mom letting you go and get 'brainwashed'. Hell, church picnics and potlucks were, and are, the best eatin' around! Really? Several of our local churches sell "churchlady" cooked food a few times a year to raise funds. Perfectly legit. Last summer, we bought two "barbecue" meals from one of those churches, barbecued chicken and barbecued ribs. The chicken was overdone, dry, and pretty much tasteless, the sauce on the ribs tasted like melted sugar, and the coleslaw and potato salad came from Safeway. Hardly "the best eatin' around," unless you like bad cooking. Harry, by buying those meals, it sounds to me like you're supporting churches who support missionaries Who want to convert others by cramming religion down their throats. Not good!! I don't believe the church in question has anything to do with missionaries. You seem to think I object to religion. I don't. My objection is to religion that tries to impose its beliefs on those who either believe differently or don't believe at all. I have no objection to the voluntary support of neighborhood religious organizations, except, in this case, I don't think we'll be supporting their barbecues again. I might try a cake/pie/cookie sale. |
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On 1/12/2013 11:20 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/12/2013 2:08 PM, thumper wrote: On 1/12/2013 7:02 AM, Salmonbait wrote: I should have said, "What did your sister expect when she allowed her daughter to go on a weekend trip with a Baptist church group - no religion?" There's that binary thinking again. There's a difference between presenting information in a comfortable environment and more intense coercion involving threats. Baptists tend toward the latter from my limited experience. So you are speculating that this "brainwashing" actually happened, pretty much because it fits in with your agenda... I get it.. Read this slowly. I've experienced threatening coercion specifically from a Baptist youth leader in rural Michigan. Accept Jesus as your personal savior or burn in Hell for eternity. Do it now. It does happen. It's not a situation I would place a young child in without parental supervision. |
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On Jan 12, 2:13*pm, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 2:28 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 7:54 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 8:44 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 6:23 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:21 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 11, 2:27 pm, ESAD wrote: I had in-laws who tried to pull that crap on me at a family gathering in Florida. They were trying to hustle funds for a trip their church was planning to take to somewhere in Central America to proselytize. Or maybe it was South America. One or the other. Basically, they were heading into some backwoods areas in attempts to convert indigenous Catholics into Southern Baptists, and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera. "Indigenous Catholics?" *And what were the indigenous before they were Catholics? "and, as bait, they were bringing along *church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera." is it wrong to help people improve their health and their lives? " What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? *Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. *If one of you says to them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? *In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." James 2:14-17 What were the indigenous peoples before they were catholics? They had their own culture and their own religions *before* the Europeans came along and destroyed both. Interesting quote you provided...sort of a justification for proselytizing and destroying a people and a culture. It's damned wrong to go to some backwater area and offer help to people if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours. Harry I have no idea where you get the notion of " if only they will * *give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours." That isn't written in the scripture, it isn't even applied. *I have no idea why you feel you need to conjure up these things. Really? What do evangelical missionaries do? Answer: they preach Christianity to others with the object of conversion, and many times in history those conversions were accomplished with the threat of death. Yeah, a 'history of death'' by ungodly people under the guise of doing the work of Christ. * But if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . * But you were making a point that there was some kind of a 'bargaining' that was to happen. like medical, shelter, clothing, food, ...firewood. You give the impression that missionaries use Christianity as some kind of a tool. You either convert, or you don't get the goods. There is non of that. Again, if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . You either listen to the message or you get...nothing. That's the case with some missionaries in Central and South America. But you implied that it is ALL! Can you tell me of modern missionaries that do this? Or is this simply a misconception you are promoting? |
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On Jan 12, 2:16*pm, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 2:34 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 8:49 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 9:50 AM, Salmonbait wrote: On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:26:58 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 12:31 am, thumper wrote: On 1/11/2013 12:19 PM, Salmonbait wrote: If your sister was more than a dunce, she would not have allowed your niece to go with a church group. What the hell did she expect? Exactly, what kind of idiot would trust a church group with a child? ;-) Me. *As a kid, I attended lots of church functions, camps and gatherings. had a lot of fun too. ?;^ ) And I'll bet your uncle didn't talk about your mom letting you go and get 'brainwashed'. Hell, church picnics and potlucks were, and are, the best eatin' around! Really? Several of our local churches sell "churchlady" cooked food a few times a year to raise funds. Perfectly legit. Last summer, we bought two "barbecue" meals from one of those churches, barbecued chicken and barbecued ribs. The chicken was overdone, dry, and pretty much tasteless, the sauce on the ribs tasted like melted sugar, and the coleslaw and potato salad came from Safeway. Hardly "the best eatin' around," unless you like bad cooking. Harry, by buying those meals, it sounds to me like you're supporting churches who support missionaries Who want to convert others by cramming religion down their throats. Not good!! I don't believe the church in question has anything to do with missionaries. You seem to think I object to religion. I don't. My objection is to religion that tries to impose its beliefs on those who either believe differently or don't believe at all. I have no objection to the voluntary support of neighborhood religious organizations, except, in this case, I don't think we'll be supporting their barbecues again. I might try a cake/pie/cookie sale. I know of no 'church' that doesn't support missionaries, Harry. |
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On 1/12/2013 3:17 PM, thumper wrote:
On 1/12/2013 11:20 AM, JustWait wrote: On 1/12/2013 2:08 PM, thumper wrote: On 1/12/2013 7:02 AM, Salmonbait wrote: I should have said, "What did your sister expect when she allowed her daughter to go on a weekend trip with a Baptist church group - no religion?" There's that binary thinking again. There's a difference between presenting information in a comfortable environment and more intense coercion involving threats. Baptists tend toward the latter from my limited experience. So you are speculating that this "brainwashing" actually happened, pretty much because it fits in with your agenda... I get it.. Read this slowly. I've experienced threatening coercion specifically from a Baptist youth leader in rural Michigan. Accept Jesus as your personal savior or burn in Hell for eternity. Do it now. It does happen. It's not a situation I would place a young child in without parental supervision. So, this was what? One incident? Close to what, 60 years ago??? That really doesn't come any where close to brainwashing or shoving down the throat... So again, why are we even having this narrative about something that doesn't happen... |
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On 1/12/2013 3:32 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 2:13 pm, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:28 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 7:54 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 8:44 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 6:23 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:21 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 11, 2:27 pm, ESAD wrote: I had in-laws who tried to pull that crap on me at a family gathering in Florida. They were trying to hustle funds for a trip their church was planning to take to somewhere in Central America to proselytize. Or maybe it was South America. One or the other. Basically, they were heading into some backwoods areas in attempts to convert indigenous Catholics into Southern Baptists, and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera. "Indigenous Catholics?" And what were the indigenous before they were Catholics? "and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera." is it wrong to help people improve their health and their lives? " What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." James 2:14-17 What were the indigenous peoples before they were catholics? They had their own culture and their own religions *before* the Europeans came along and destroyed both. Interesting quote you provided...sort of a justification for proselytizing and destroying a people and a culture. It's damned wrong to go to some backwater area and offer help to people if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours. Harry I have no idea where you get the notion of " if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours." That isn't written in the scripture, it isn't even applied. I have no idea why you feel you need to conjure up these things. Really? What do evangelical missionaries do? Answer: they preach Christianity to others with the object of conversion, and many times in history those conversions were accomplished with the threat of death. Yeah, a 'history of death'' by ungodly people under the guise of doing the work of Christ. But if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . But you were making a point that there was some kind of a 'bargaining' that was to happen. like medical, shelter, clothing, food, ...firewood. You give the impression that missionaries use Christianity as some kind of a tool. You either convert, or you don't get the goods. There is non of that. Again, if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . You either listen to the message or you get...nothing. That's the case with some missionaries in Central and South America. But you implied that it is ALL! Can you tell me of modern missionaries that do this? Or is this simply a misconception you are promoting? Ding, ding, ding... we have a winner..:) |
If you thought...
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If you thought...
On 1/12/2013 3:33 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 2:16 pm, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:34 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 8:49 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 9:50 AM, Salmonbait wrote: On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:26:58 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 12:31 am, thumper wrote: On 1/11/2013 12:19 PM, Salmonbait wrote: If your sister was more than a dunce, she would not have allowed your niece to go with a church group. What the hell did she expect? Exactly, what kind of idiot would trust a church group with a child? ;-) Me. As a kid, I attended lots of church functions, camps and gatherings. had a lot of fun too. ?;^ ) And I'll bet your uncle didn't talk about your mom letting you go and get 'brainwashed'. Hell, church picnics and potlucks were, and are, the best eatin' around! Really? Several of our local churches sell "churchlady" cooked food a few times a year to raise funds. Perfectly legit. Last summer, we bought two "barbecue" meals from one of those churches, barbecued chicken and barbecued ribs. The chicken was overdone, dry, and pretty much tasteless, the sauce on the ribs tasted like melted sugar, and the coleslaw and potato salad came from Safeway. Hardly "the best eatin' around," unless you like bad cooking. Harry, by buying those meals, it sounds to me like you're supporting churches who support missionaries Who want to convert others by cramming religion down their throats. Not good!! I don't believe the church in question has anything to do with missionaries. You seem to think I object to religion. I don't. My objection is to religion that tries to impose its beliefs on those who either believe differently or don't believe at all. I have no objection to the voluntary support of neighborhood religious organizations, except, in this case, I don't think we'll be supporting their barbecues again. I might try a cake/pie/cookie sale. I know of no 'church' that doesn't support missionaries, Harry. Right on target Tim. |
If you thought...
On 1/12/13 3:32 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 2:13 pm, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:28 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 7:54 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 8:44 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 6:23 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:21 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 11, 2:27 pm, ESAD wrote: I had in-laws who tried to pull that crap on me at a family gathering in Florida. They were trying to hustle funds for a trip their church was planning to take to somewhere in Central America to proselytize. Or maybe it was South America. One or the other. Basically, they were heading into some backwoods areas in attempts to convert indigenous Catholics into Southern Baptists, and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera. "Indigenous Catholics?" And what were the indigenous before they were Catholics? "and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera." is it wrong to help people improve their health and their lives? " What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." James 2:14-17 What were the indigenous peoples before they were catholics? They had their own culture and their own religions *before* the Europeans came along and destroyed both. Interesting quote you provided...sort of a justification for proselytizing and destroying a people and a culture. It's damned wrong to go to some backwater area and offer help to people if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours. Harry I have no idea where you get the notion of " if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours." That isn't written in the scripture, it isn't even applied. I have no idea why you feel you need to conjure up these things. Really? What do evangelical missionaries do? Answer: they preach Christianity to others with the object of conversion, and many times in history those conversions were accomplished with the threat of death. Yeah, a 'history of death'' by ungodly people under the guise of doing the work of Christ. But if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . But you were making a point that there was some kind of a 'bargaining' that was to happen. like medical, shelter, clothing, food, ...firewood. You give the impression that missionaries use Christianity as some kind of a tool. You either convert, or you don't get the goods. There is non of that. Again, if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . You either listen to the message or you get...nothing. That's the case with some missionaries in Central and South America. But you implied that it is ALL! Can you tell me of modern missionaries that do this? Or is this simply a misconception you are promoting? No, I didn't imply all. I have read of missionaries in places like India withholding services/goods for those who would not convert, and I have read of other such cases. As you may suspect, I am not in favor of proselytizing of any kind. I think the practice is disgusting. If it were up to me, I would expel any missionaries in foreign countries who engage in proselytizing. I do know some nuns personally who pay for and run an orphanage in China where the only concern is taking care of the kids and finding decent homes for them. The nuns do not teach religion and do not place the kids in only catholic homes. I support such efforts, as I support religious people going to disaster areas and helping out, so long as they aren't shoveling their religion. |
If you thought...
On 1/12/13 3:33 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 2:16 pm, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:34 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 8:49 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 9:50 AM, Salmonbait wrote: On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:26:58 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 12:31 am, thumper wrote: On 1/11/2013 12:19 PM, Salmonbait wrote: If your sister was more than a dunce, she would not have allowed your niece to go with a church group. What the hell did she expect? Exactly, what kind of idiot would trust a church group with a child? ;-) Me. As a kid, I attended lots of church functions, camps and gatherings. had a lot of fun too. ?;^ ) And I'll bet your uncle didn't talk about your mom letting you go and get 'brainwashed'. Hell, church picnics and potlucks were, and are, the best eatin' around! Really? Several of our local churches sell "churchlady" cooked food a few times a year to raise funds. Perfectly legit. Last summer, we bought two "barbecue" meals from one of those churches, barbecued chicken and barbecued ribs. The chicken was overdone, dry, and pretty much tasteless, the sauce on the ribs tasted like melted sugar, and the coleslaw and potato salad came from Safeway. Hardly "the best eatin' around," unless you like bad cooking. Harry, by buying those meals, it sounds to me like you're supporting churches who support missionaries Who want to convert others by cramming religion down their throats. Not good!! I don't believe the church in question has anything to do with missionaries. You seem to think I object to religion. I don't. My objection is to religion that tries to impose its beliefs on those who either believe differently or don't believe at all. I have no objection to the voluntary support of neighborhood religious organizations, except, in this case, I don't think we'll be supporting their barbecues again. I might try a cake/pie/cookie sale. I know of no 'church' that doesn't support missionaries, Harry. Ahh, but you don't know of *every* church, do you? |
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On 1/12/13 3:40 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/12/2013 3:17 PM, thumper wrote: On 1/12/2013 11:20 AM, JustWait wrote: On 1/12/2013 2:08 PM, thumper wrote: On 1/12/2013 7:02 AM, Salmonbait wrote: I should have said, "What did your sister expect when she allowed her daughter to go on a weekend trip with a Baptist church group - no religion?" There's that binary thinking again. There's a difference between presenting information in a comfortable environment and more intense coercion involving threats. Baptists tend toward the latter from my limited experience. So you are speculating that this "brainwashing" actually happened, pretty much because it fits in with your agenda... I get it.. Read this slowly. I've experienced threatening coercion specifically from a Baptist youth leader in rural Michigan. Accept Jesus as your personal savior or burn in Hell for eternity. Do it now. It does happen. It's not a situation I would place a young child in without parental supervision. So, this was what? One incident? Close to what, 60 years ago??? That really doesn't come any where close to brainwashing or shoving down the throat... So again, why are we even having this narrative about something that doesn't happen... How would you know whether it happens or not? You're an ignorant little fool. |
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If you thought...
On Jan 12, 2:52*pm, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... On 1/12/2013 11:20 AM, JustWait wrote: On 1/12/2013 2:08 PM, thumper wrote: On 1/12/2013 7:02 AM, Salmonbait wrote: I should have said, "What did your sister expect when she allowed her daughter to go on a weekend trip with a Baptist church group - no religion?" There's that binary thinking again. *There's a difference between presenting information in a comfortable environment and more intense coercion involving threats. *Baptists tend toward the latter from my limited experience. So you are speculating that this "brainwashing" actually happened, pretty much because it fits in with your agenda... I get it.. Read this slowly. I've experienced threatening coercion specifically from a Baptist youth leader in rural Michigan. *Accept Jesus as your personal savior or burn in Hell for eternity. *Do it now. It does happen. *It's not a situation I would place a young child in without parental supervision. You could probably encounter that from any religious fanatic. I went to Baptist church services, "bible school" sessions, and summer camps for a couple years, maybe age 9-11. Never heard burning in hell mentioned. *Sermons and bible school just concentrated on interpreting how the meaning of passages applied in conducting your daily life in a "Christian" manner. Don't think I even heard the word "saved" in that church. Don't remember ANY religion taught in the summer camp, just fun. It was all positive, no negative. Though I'm not religious, I still consider it was good "shaping" of my morality. With Baptists, I think the tone is almost entirely set by the Pastor. Maybe I got lucky. No, you didn't just "get lucky." From what I've seen and experienced is the usual norm. |
If you thought...
On Jan 12, 2:54*pm, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 3:32 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 2:13 pm, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:28 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 7:54 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 8:44 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 6:23 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:21 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 11, 2:27 pm, ESAD wrote: I had in-laws who tried to pull that crap on me at a family gathering in Florida. They were trying to hustle funds for a trip their church was planning to take to somewhere in Central America to proselytize. Or maybe it was South America. One or the other. Basically, they were heading into some backwoods areas in attempts to convert indigenous Catholics into Southern Baptists, and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera. "Indigenous Catholics?" *And what were the indigenous before they were Catholics? "and, as bait, they were bringing along *church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera." is it wrong to help people improve their health and their lives? " What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? *Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. *If one of you says to them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? *In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." James 2:14-17 What were the indigenous peoples before they were catholics? They had their own culture and their own religions *before* the Europeans came along and destroyed both. Interesting quote you provided...sort of a justification for proselytizing and destroying a people and a culture. It's damned wrong to go to some backwater area and offer help to people if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours. Harry I have no idea where you get the notion of " if only they will * * give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours." That isn't written in the scripture, it isn't even applied. *I have no idea why you feel you need to conjure up these things. Really? What do evangelical missionaries do? Answer: they preach Christianity to others with the object of conversion, and many times in history those conversions were accomplished with the threat of death.. Yeah, a 'history of death'' by ungodly people under the guise of doing the work of Christ. * But if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . * *But you were making a point that there was some kind of a 'bargaining' that was to happen. like medical, shelter, clothing, food, ...firewood. You give the impression that missionaries use Christianity as some kind of a tool. You either convert, or you don't get the goods. There is non of that. Again, if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . You either listen to the message or you get...nothing. That's the case with some missionaries in Central and South America. But you implied that it is ALL! * * Can you tell me of modern missionaries that do this? Or is this simply a misconception you are promoting? No, I didn't imply all. "Christians force their beliefs on others in many ways other than attempts at door to door salesmanship. These include but are not limited to:..." I notice you didn't say "some" or "a few" |
If you thought...
On Jan 12, 2:55*pm, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 3:33 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 2:16 pm, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:34 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 8:49 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 9:50 AM, Salmonbait wrote: On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:26:58 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 12:31 am, thumper wrote: On 1/11/2013 12:19 PM, Salmonbait wrote: If your sister was more than a dunce, she would not have allowed your niece to go with a church group. What the hell did she expect? Exactly, what kind of idiot would trust a church group with a child? ;-) Me. *As a kid, I attended lots of church functions, camps and gatherings. had a lot of fun too. ?;^ ) And I'll bet your uncle didn't talk about your mom letting you go and get 'brainwashed'. Hell, church picnics and potlucks were, and are, the best eatin' around! Really? Several of our local churches sell "churchlady" cooked food a few times a year to raise funds. Perfectly legit. Last summer, we bought two "barbecue" meals from one of those churches, barbecued chicken and barbecued ribs. The chicken was overdone, dry, and pretty much tasteless, the sauce on the ribs tasted like melted sugar, and the coleslaw and potato salad came from Safeway. Hardly "the best eatin' around," unless you like bad cooking. Harry, by buying those meals, it sounds to me like you're supporting churches who support missionaries Who want to convert others by cramming religion down their throats. Not good!! I don't believe the church in question has anything to do with missionaries. You seem to think I object to religion. I don't. My objection is to religion that tries to impose its beliefs on those who either believe differently or don't believe at all. I have no objection to the voluntary support of neighborhood religious organizations, except, in this case, I don't think we'll be supporting their barbecues again. I might try a cake/pie/cookie sale. I know of no 'church' that doesn't support missionaries, Harry. Ahh, but you don't know of *every* church, do you? do you? |
If you thought...
On 1/12/13 4:22 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 2:54 pm, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 3:32 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 2:13 pm, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:28 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 7:54 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 8:44 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 6:23 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:21 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 11, 2:27 pm, ESAD wrote: I had in-laws who tried to pull that crap on me at a family gathering in Florida. They were trying to hustle funds for a trip their church was planning to take to somewhere in Central America to proselytize. Or maybe it was South America. One or the other. Basically, they were heading into some backwoods areas in attempts to convert indigenous Catholics into Southern Baptists, and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera. "Indigenous Catholics?" And what were the indigenous before they were Catholics? "and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera." is it wrong to help people improve their health and their lives? " What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." James 2:14-17 What were the indigenous peoples before they were catholics? They had their own culture and their own religions *before* the Europeans came along and destroyed both. Interesting quote you provided...sort of a justification for proselytizing and destroying a people and a culture. It's damned wrong to go to some backwater area and offer help to people if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours. Harry I have no idea where you get the notion of " if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours." That isn't written in the scripture, it isn't even applied. I have no idea why you feel you need to conjure up these things. Really? What do evangelical missionaries do? Answer: they preach Christianity to others with the object of conversion, and many times in history those conversions were accomplished with the threat of death. Yeah, a 'history of death'' by ungodly people under the guise of doing the work of Christ. But if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . But you were making a point that there was some kind of a 'bargaining' that was to happen. like medical, shelter, clothing, food, ...firewood. You give the impression that missionaries use Christianity as some kind of a tool. You either convert, or you don't get the goods. There is non of that. Again, if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . You either listen to the message or you get...nothing. That's the case with some missionaries in Central and South America. But you implied that it is ALL! Can you tell me of modern missionaries that do this? Or is this simply a misconception you are promoting? No, I didn't imply all. "Christians force their beliefs on others in many ways other than attempts at door to door salesmanship. These include but are not limited to:..." I notice you didn't say "some" or "a few" I also didn't say "All christians..." |
If you thought...
On 1/12/13 4:23 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 2:55 pm, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 3:33 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 2:16 pm, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:34 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 8:49 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 9:50 AM, Salmonbait wrote: On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:26:58 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 12:31 am, thumper wrote: On 1/11/2013 12:19 PM, Salmonbait wrote: If your sister was more than a dunce, she would not have allowed your niece to go with a church group. What the hell did she expect? Exactly, what kind of idiot would trust a church group with a child? ;-) Me. As a kid, I attended lots of church functions, camps and gatherings. had a lot of fun too. ?;^ ) And I'll bet your uncle didn't talk about your mom letting you go and get 'brainwashed'. Hell, church picnics and potlucks were, and are, the best eatin' around! Really? Several of our local churches sell "churchlady" cooked food a few times a year to raise funds. Perfectly legit. Last summer, we bought two "barbecue" meals from one of those churches, barbecued chicken and barbecued ribs. The chicken was overdone, dry, and pretty much tasteless, the sauce on the ribs tasted like melted sugar, and the coleslaw and potato salad came from Safeway. Hardly "the best eatin' around," unless you like bad cooking. Harry, by buying those meals, it sounds to me like you're supporting churches who support missionaries Who want to convert others by cramming religion down their throats. Not good!! I don't believe the church in question has anything to do with missionaries. You seem to think I object to religion. I don't. My objection is to religion that tries to impose its beliefs on those who either believe differently or don't believe at all. I have no objection to the voluntary support of neighborhood religious organizations, except, in this case, I don't think we'll be supporting their barbecues again. I might try a cake/pie/cookie sale. I know of no 'church' that doesn't support missionaries, Harry. Ahh, but you don't know of *every* church, do you? do you? No, thankfully. |
If you thought...
On 1/12/2013 3:54 PM, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 3:32 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 2:13 pm, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:28 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 7:54 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 8:44 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 6:23 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:21 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 11, 2:27 pm, ESAD wrote: I had in-laws who tried to pull that crap on me at a family gathering in Florida. They were trying to hustle funds for a trip their church was planning to take to somewhere in Central America to proselytize. Or maybe it was South America. One or the other. Basically, they were heading into some backwoods areas in attempts to convert indigenous Catholics into Southern Baptists, and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera. "Indigenous Catholics?" And what were the indigenous before they were Catholics? "and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera." is it wrong to help people improve their health and their lives? " What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." James 2:14-17 What were the indigenous peoples before they were catholics? They had their own culture and their own religions *before* the Europeans came along and destroyed both. Interesting quote you provided...sort of a justification for proselytizing and destroying a people and a culture. It's damned wrong to go to some backwater area and offer help to people if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours. Harry I have no idea where you get the notion of " if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours." That isn't written in the scripture, it isn't even applied. I have no idea why you feel you need to conjure up these things. Really? What do evangelical missionaries do? Answer: they preach Christianity to others with the object of conversion, and many times in history those conversions were accomplished with the threat of death. Yeah, a 'history of death'' by ungodly people under the guise of doing the work of Christ. But if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . But you were making a point that there was some kind of a 'bargaining' that was to happen. like medical, shelter, clothing, food, ...firewood. You give the impression that missionaries use Christianity as some kind of a tool. You either convert, or you don't get the goods. There is non of that. Again, if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . You either listen to the message or you get...nothing. That's the case with some missionaries in Central and South America. But you implied that it is ALL! Can you tell me of modern missionaries that do this? Or is this simply a misconception you are promoting? No, I didn't imply all. I have read of missionaries in places like India withholding services/goods for those who would not convert, and I have read of other such cases. As you may suspect, I am not in favor of proselytizing of any kind. I think the practice is disgusting. If it were up to me, I would expel any missionaries in foreign countries who engage in proselytizing. I do know some nuns personally who pay for and run an orphanage in China where the only concern is taking care of the kids and finding decent homes for them. The nuns do not teach religion and do not place the kids in only catholic homes. I support such efforts, as I support religious people going to disaster areas and helping out, so long as they aren't shoveling their religion. When's the last time you did charitable work and didn't expect something in return? Never is my guess. |
If you thought...
On Jan 12, 2:54*pm, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 3:32 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 2:13 pm, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:28 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 7:54 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 8:44 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 6:23 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:21 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 11, 2:27 pm, ESAD wrote: I had in-laws who tried to pull that crap on me at a family gathering in Florida. They were trying to hustle funds for a trip their church was planning to take to somewhere in Central America to proselytize. Or maybe it was South America. One or the other. Basically, they were heading into some backwoods areas in attempts to convert indigenous Catholics into Southern Baptists, and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera. "Indigenous Catholics?" *And what were the indigenous before they were Catholics? "and, as bait, they were bringing along *church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera." is it wrong to help people improve their health and their lives? " What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? *Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. *If one of you says to them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? *In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." James 2:14-17 What were the indigenous peoples before they were catholics? They had their own culture and their own religions *before* the Europeans came along and destroyed both. Interesting quote you provided...sort of a justification for proselytizing and destroying a people and a culture. It's damned wrong to go to some backwater area and offer help to people if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours. Harry I have no idea where you get the notion of " if only they will * * give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours." That isn't written in the scripture, it isn't even applied. *I have no idea why you feel you need to conjure up these things. Really? What do evangelical missionaries do? Answer: they preach Christianity to others with the object of conversion, and many times in history those conversions were accomplished with the threat of death.. Yeah, a 'history of death'' by ungodly people under the guise of doing the work of Christ. * But if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . * *But you were making a point that there was some kind of a 'bargaining' that was to happen. like medical, shelter, clothing, food, ...firewood. You give the impression that missionaries use Christianity as some kind of a tool. You either convert, or you don't get the goods. There is non of that. Again, if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . You either listen to the message or you get...nothing. That's the case with some missionaries in Central and South America. But you implied that it is ALL! * * Can you tell me of modern missionaries that do this? Or is this simply a misconception you are promoting? No, I didn't imply all. I have read of missionaries in places like India withholding services/goods for those who would not convert, and I have read of other such cases. "As you may suspect, I am not in favor of proselytizing of any kind. I think the practice is disgusting. If it were up to me, I would expel any missionaries in foreign countries who engage in proselytizing...." And by doing so, you would also be expelling hundreds if not thousands of health care workers, teachers,dentists, hygienists, dieticians, carpenters, metallurgists and other craftsmen, farmers, scientists, engineers, People who can show others how to live healthier... You'd also be taking a lot of monies out of the local economy that was provided by those you kicked out of the country. Yes, Harry, By expelling those pesky foreign bible thumpers, you'd help keep your third world country "third" |
If you thought...
On 1/12/13 7:05 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 2:54 pm, ESAD wrote: No, I didn't imply all. I have read of missionaries in places like India withholding services/goods for those who would not convert, and I have read of other such cases. "As you may suspect, I am not in favor of proselytizing of any kind. I think the practice is disgusting. If it were up to me, I would expel any missionaries in foreign countries who engage in proselytizing...." And by doing so, you would also be expelling hundreds if not thousands of health care workers, teachers,dentists, hygienists, dieticians, carpenters, metallurgists and other craftsmen, farmers, scientists, engineers, People who can show others how to live healthier... You'd also be taking a lot of monies out of the local economy that was provided by those you kicked out of the country. Yes, Harry, By expelling those pesky foreign bible thumpers, you'd help keep your third world country "third" No need to expel them; all they need to do is get out of the religious conversion business, eh? I have a long-time client, an NGO, that helps villages all over the world, in places like Guatemala, Egypt, Salvador, Bosnia, and India, train indigenous peoples how to build housing, low rise commercial buildings, how to build and maintain potable water supplies and delivery, et cetera, and they manage to do it without peddling religion or anything else. If the hundreds or thousands of people you mentioned by occupation are religious workers, they can do what they do without proselytizing, and do it for the sake of their saviour. |
If you thought...
On Jan 12, 6:33*pm, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 7:05 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 2:54 pm, ESAD wrote: No, I didn't imply all. I have read of missionaries in places like India withholding services/goods for those who would not convert, and I have read of other such cases. "As you may suspect, I am not in favor of proselytizing of any kind. I think the practice is disgusting. If it were up to me, I would expel any missionaries in foreign countries who engage in proselytizing...." And by doing so, you would also be expelling hundreds if not thousands of health care workers, teachers,dentists, hygienists, dieticians, carpenters, metallurgists and other craftsmen, farmers, scientists, engineers, * People who can show others how to live healthier... You'd also be taking a lot of monies out of the local economy that was provided by those you kicked out of the country. Yes, Harry, By expelling those pesky foreign bible thumpers, you'd help keep your third world country "third" No need to expel them; all they need to do is get out of the religious conversion business, eh? I have a long-time client, an NGO, that helps villages all over the world, in places like Guatemala, Egypt, Salvador, Bosnia, and India, train indigenous peoples how to build housing, low rise commercial buildings, how to build and maintain potable water supplies and delivery, et cetera, and they manage to do it without peddling religion or anything else. If the hundreds or thousands of people you mentioned by occupation are religious workers, they can do what they do without proselytizing, and do it for the sake of their saviour. If that be the case then why not turn the work over to the inefficient Peace Corps? |
If you thought...
On 1/12/13 7:36 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 6:33 pm, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 7:05 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 2:54 pm, ESAD wrote: No, I didn't imply all. I have read of missionaries in places like India withholding services/goods for those who would not convert, and I have read of other such cases. "As you may suspect, I am not in favor of proselytizing of any kind. I think the practice is disgusting. If it were up to me, I would expel any missionaries in foreign countries who engage in proselytizing...." And by doing so, you would also be expelling hundreds if not thousands of health care workers, teachers,dentists, hygienists, dieticians, carpenters, metallurgists and other craftsmen, farmers, scientists, engineers, People who can show others how to live healthier... You'd also be taking a lot of monies out of the local economy that was provided by those you kicked out of the country. Yes, Harry, By expelling those pesky foreign bible thumpers, you'd help keep your third world country "third" No need to expel them; all they need to do is get out of the religious conversion business, eh? I have a long-time client, an NGO, that helps villages all over the world, in places like Guatemala, Egypt, Salvador, Bosnia, and India, train indigenous peoples how to build housing, low rise commercial buildings, how to build and maintain potable water supplies and delivery, et cetera, and they manage to do it without peddling religion or anything else. If the hundreds or thousands of people you mentioned by occupation are religious workers, they can do what they do without proselytizing, and do it for the sake of their saviour. If that be the case then why not turn the work over to the inefficient Peace Corps? Inefficient? It's a small force, under 10,000, and most volunteers work as school teachers or in medical fields to help people not get HIV/AIDs. Like any group, it has its problems, but it does a lot of good work around the world without pushing religious superstition. |
If you thought...
On 1/12/2013 7:47 PM, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 7:36 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 6:33 pm, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 7:05 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 2:54 pm, ESAD wrote: No, I didn't imply all. I have read of missionaries in places like India withholding services/goods for those who would not convert, and I have read of other such cases. "As you may suspect, I am not in favor of proselytizing of any kind. I think the practice is disgusting. If it were up to me, I would expel any missionaries in foreign countries who engage in proselytizing...." And by doing so, you would also be expelling hundreds if not thousands of health care workers, teachers,dentists, hygienists, dieticians, carpenters, metallurgists and other craftsmen, farmers, scientists, engineers, People who can show others how to live healthier... You'd also be taking a lot of monies out of the local economy that was provided by those you kicked out of the country. Yes, Harry, By expelling those pesky foreign bible thumpers, you'd help keep your third world country "third" No need to expel them; all they need to do is get out of the religious conversion business, eh? I have a long-time client, an NGO, that helps villages all over the world, in places like Guatemala, Egypt, Salvador, Bosnia, and India, train indigenous peoples how to build housing, low rise commercial buildings, how to build and maintain potable water supplies and delivery, et cetera, and they manage to do it without peddling religion or anything else. If the hundreds or thousands of people you mentioned by occupation are religious workers, they can do what they do without proselytizing, and do it for the sake of their saviour. If that be the case then why not turn the work over to the inefficient Peace Corps? Inefficient? It's a small force, under 10,000, and most volunteers work as school teachers or in medical fields to help people not get HIV/AIDs. Like any group, it has its problems, but it does a lot of good work around the world without pushing religious superstition. I don't think promoting religion is as terrible as lying and refusing to pay taxes. |
If you thought...
On 1/12/2013 4:22 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 2:54 pm, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 3:32 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 2:13 pm, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:28 PM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 7:54 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 8:44 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 12, 6:23 am, ESAD wrote: On 1/12/13 2:21 AM, Tim wrote: On Jan 11, 2:27 pm, ESAD wrote: I had in-laws who tried to pull that crap on me at a family gathering in Florida. They were trying to hustle funds for a trip their church was planning to take to somewhere in Central America to proselytize. Or maybe it was South America. One or the other. Basically, they were heading into some backwoods areas in attempts to convert indigenous Catholics into Southern Baptists, and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera. "Indigenous Catholics?" And what were the indigenous before they were Catholics? "and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera." is it wrong to help people improve their health and their lives? " What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." James 2:14-17 What were the indigenous peoples before they were catholics? They had their own culture and their own religions *before* the Europeans came along and destroyed both. Interesting quote you provided...sort of a justification for proselytizing and destroying a people and a culture. It's damned wrong to go to some backwater area and offer help to people if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours. Harry I have no idea where you get the notion of " if only they will give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours." That isn't written in the scripture, it isn't even applied. I have no idea why you feel you need to conjure up these things. Really? What do evangelical missionaries do? Answer: they preach Christianity to others with the object of conversion, and many times in history those conversions were accomplished with the threat of death. Yeah, a 'history of death'' by ungodly people under the guise of doing the work of Christ. But if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . But you were making a point that there was some kind of a 'bargaining' that was to happen. like medical, shelter, clothing, food, ...firewood. You give the impression that missionaries use Christianity as some kind of a tool. You either convert, or you don't get the goods. There is non of that. Again, if you feel to believe so, then that is your right . You either listen to the message or you get...nothing. That's the case with some missionaries in Central and South America. But you implied that it is ALL! Can you tell me of modern missionaries that do this? Or is this simply a misconception you are promoting? No, I didn't imply all. "Christians force their beliefs on others in many ways other than attempts at door to door salesmanship. These include but are not limited to:..." I notice you didn't say "some" or "a few" I noticed he didn't back up his narrative at all... he can't show any instance of "religion being forced down their throats". |
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