I have a question. I have just recently bought a 1986 SeaRay 21' mid
cabin. What type of weather will this boat handle? I would feel
comfortable in 2 foot waves. Am I being foolish? What point should I say
this is not safe for my boat? I am saying lake Ontario. I mostly cruise
the finger lakes but would like to try Ontario next year. Thanks, Scott

Gould 0738 wrote:

Gould, Lake Erie can kick up to a mess in a little as fifteen minutes. If
you an hour away from homeport then what? It's better to get some
PLANNED experience going out a little at a time but staying close to home
port to get acquainted/acclimated to harder conditions, rather than sit
tied to the dock all season or worse, caught having to travel a great
distance in bad water without any prior experience.

That's my take on it. If you want to put a derrogatory label on me by all
means.

Bob Dimond



In article ,
(Gould 0738) wrote:

Aww.. come on! A 20 foot boat out in Lake Erie only in nice conditions?
If you overnight in it you might as well take it out in a little bit of
weather 'cause you and I both know on Lake Erie you going to hit it
anyway!

Egging a guy out into conditions beyond the capabilities of his boat is
not the
mark of a serious mariner.

We agree that one needs to be prepared for snotty weather, and that it can't
always be avoided. We disagree that it is prudent to put out into conditions
that are marginal and unstable to begin with, what if they get worse?

I'm not trying to put a label on you as an individual, but I think that your
weather philosophy is not as well developed as might be. IMO. Others will, can,
and should disagree.


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I have a question. I have just recently bought a 1986 SeaRay 21' mid
cabin. What type of weather will this boat handle? I would feel
comfortable in 2 foot waves.

Depending on wave characteristic, (standing chop on one extreme and rolling
swells on the other), the answer will vary.

Depending on your personal seamanship, the answer will vary. If you are
uncertain, uncomfortable, or unhappy.....it doesn't make any difference what
the boat will withstand. You are more likely to make mistakes if you get
frightened, and that could result in mishandling that will negate some of the
boat's designed in survival characteristics.

Personal standard? When standing chop is even with or well above the available
freeboard, it's time to get concerned. That's not an absolute, and there are
other approaches. I know a guy who tries to figure 3" of chop per thousand
pounds displacement as a safety level for small boats, and well known Pacific
NW boating author Dale Petersen ("Day by Day to Alaska"..runs to AK in a
Bayliner Trophy) has a formula based on LWL vs. wave height.

Got a small boat? Carry a great big barometer. :-)

An error on the side of caution is a wise man's error when it comes to weather.

From: (Bob D.)

Aww.. come on! A 20 foot boat out in Lake Erie only in nice conditions?
If you overnight in it you might as well take it out in a little bit of
weather 'cause you and I both know on Lake Erie you going to hit it
anyway!

Bob Dimond

My opinion only. The 2052 Capri was to light for Lake Erie in anything over 3'.
Yes I could go out on the lake but would not have an enjoyable time. On the
thousands of Michigans inland lakes or the Detroit River the Capri was a great
boat. I personally chose not to go out on Lake Erie when it was rough. When I
had my first Bayliner a 2450 Ciera a totally different story. Same with the 26
the 28 or my current 30. They could and did and do handle the rough stuff. Made
a run to Kelleys Island the weekend before last. Left on Friday catching the
remmnants of hurricane Isabel. Four to six foot rollers. When I pulled into
Kelleys a couple of guys helped me to tie up to the dock. They wondered why I
would come across in such lousy conditions. I told them, "I was doing
research." What research they asked, "I was researching whether or not
Bayliners hold together in rough conditions." I made it there, they had a good
laugh and that was that. Heck, my son followed me in his jet ski. I tried to
talk him out of it but he wanted to make the trip. It was too rough for him to
keep up so I had to stop several times for him to catch up.

Again, the Capri is a nice boat but the smaller ones are not rough water boats
IMO. Knowing how nasty Lake Erie can get in a very short time I chose not to
put myself in harms way with that boat.

Life is sexually transmitted.

Hi Trevor,
Basically there is no comparison. We are talking apples and oranges. The
Bayliner "Capri" is an entry level boat. Thin hull! A little short on
amenities, Spartan really, and a 4 cyl 130 hp or 135 hp (depends on
which engine is installed) coupled with a basic alpha drive.

The Larson is a high end, well built boat, with a fine reputation. It
includes a 6 cyl 190 hp, and other amenities such as dual batteries (can
save you a tow) and pump-out head. You will also find the items such as
upholstery and in dash instruments are a better quality. You will find
the Larson is a safer, much better built boat which will hold its value
much longer.

Capt Frank


Trevor wrote:
Given both in good condition (survey etc) - might I get some feedback
from this fine group on the following two boats?

http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/7/2/50710772.htm

http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/4/8/40244748.htm

Thanks much...

tcGb,
-trevor

Hey Trevor,
One last thing. Safety first! If you are new to boating, or even if you
are not, I heartly recommend a USCG boating safety class. Remember, as
Captain, you are both legally and morally responsible for the lives of
your passengers.

You will find some info about children's & pet's life jackets, and some
basic abandon ship info on my personal website. Please feel free to make
use of the information. There are also some pictures from Chuck Gould's
voyage log.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~aartworks

Capt. Frank

Trevor wrote:

Given both in good condition (survey etc) - might I get some feedback
from this fine group on the following two boats?

http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/7/2/50710772.htm

http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/4/8/40244748.htm

Thanks much...

tcGb,
-trevor

Bob Dimond-

Sorry, Gould, but I don't completely agree. First of all I'm not telling
people to make a crossing in gale force winds. Second a small boat can
handle quite a bit IF YOU KNOW HOW TO MINIMIZE WEATHER ON YOUR BOAT!


df-

So how does one minimize weather on a boat? Say a 24' Sedan cruiser on
Lake Michigan?

Larry!

Yeah I tend to keep a lower profile unless I feel I can contribute
something on the subject...

Hey Bob! didn't know you were up here..

On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:33:42 -0400,
(Dionysus Feldman) wrote:

So how does one minimize weather on a boat? Say a 24' Sedan cruiser on
Lake Michigan?

=======================

Easy. Stay in protected water when the wind is blowing. :-)

WaIIy wrote:

On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:33:42 -0400, (Dionysus
Feldman) wrote:

Bob Dimond-

Sorry, Gould, but I don't completely agree. First of all I'm not telling
people to make a crossing in gale force winds. Second a small boat can
handle quite a bit IF YOU KNOW HOW TO MINIMIZE WEATHER ON YOUR BOAT!


df-

So how does one minimize weather on a boat? Say a 24' Sedan cruiser on
Lake Michigan?

I was wondering that, too. Maybe he uses an umbrella.


There's a chapter for neophytes like you in Chapman, Wally. It is called
Special Seamanship Techniques. If memory serves, it discusses a number
of ways to reduce the impact of severe weather on you and your boat when
you are at sea.

On a sailboat, for example, you might want to reef the mainsail and
your genny to depower the sail plan.

Of course, I have no idea whether you even have a boat, Wally. Are you a
boater, or just one of the Neo-Con-Vict riff-raff that bespoils this
newsgroup?




--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

Is this newsgroup on for boaters? Is there a way we can get rid of the riff
raft that clutter up this newsgroup with their right wing propaganda? I
have had it with all of the neonazis who have taken over the media we need
to find a way to keep them from taking over America.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
WaIIy wrote:

On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:33:42 -0400, (Dionysus
Feldman) wrote:

Bob Dimond-

Sorry, Gould, but I don't completely agree. First of all I'm not
telling
people to make a crossing in gale force winds. Second a small boat can
handle quite a bit IF YOU KNOW HOW TO MINIMIZE WEATHER ON YOUR BOAT!


df-

So how does one minimize weather on a boat? Say a 24' Sedan cruiser on
Lake Michigan?

I was wondering that, too. Maybe he uses an umbrella.


There's a chapter for neophytes like you in Chapman, Wally. It is called
Special Seamanship Techniques. If memory serves, it discusses a number
of ways to reduce the impact of severe weather on you and your boat when
you are at sea.

On a sailboat, for example, you might want to reef the mainsail and
your genny to depower the sail plan.

Of course, I have no idea whether you even have a boat, Wally. Are you a
boater, or just one of the Neo-Con-Vict riff-raff that bespoils this
newsgroup?




--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.