On 8/5/11 10:25 AM, BeachBum wrote:
On 8/5/2011 10:18 AM, X - Man wrote:
On 8/5/11 10:11 AM, Eisboch wrote:

"X - Man" wrote in message
...

What we need is a restructuring of society here so that instead of
"semi-socialistic" we move all the way towards modern European
socialism. Most modern European socialist countries are doing ok, and
their average citizens are doing better than Americans. We have
half-assed socialism here and it doesn't work.


Impossible for two or three generations, even if desireable (which I
don't think it is).

Eisboch

For the vast majority of Americans, modern European socialism will
deliver a higher quality of life than corporatism does for them now.
But that's only one aspect of society we need to change.

Let's be real here. Since the advent of unbridled greed and
multinationalism, capitalism is a failure for a growing majority of
Americans. If we don't want a violent revolution, we'll need to modify
and restructure our society. Otherwise, it'll be heads on pikes.



You have a house full of guns Harry. You're ready.


I'm fresh out of pikes, though, and the carton of disintegrating belts I
ordered for the M240 mounted on the roof of my SUV is on back order.
(Note for simple-minded right-wingers: I'm just kidding.)

On 05/08/2011 7:36 AM, X - Man wrote:
On 8/5/11 8:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X - Man" wrote in message ...


You right-wing circle jerkers wouldn't know "well-reasoned" from
"well-seasoned." You and several of your fellow low IQ righties don't
have the brain power to discern what is well-reasoned and what isn't.
Most of you barely got out of high school. You, Ingersoll, Canuckles,
your buddy the ID spoofer, et cetera, are the best argument against
social promotions.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Insults aside, there aren't any Ivy League college grads running around
with much of a clue about what to do either, including our wonderful
"leaders" in Congress.

Sometimes common sense serves better than college courses/degrees on
economics, especially when all the traditional rules have changed.

Hate to say it, but there is no simple solution. The revised cry for
"Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" in DC are meaningless. There aren't any.
Any jobs created will be federally funded or subsidized "make work"
programs but there's no money to pay for them.

The real problem is not being addressed. The real solutions are not very
popular to many. Some of the TeaBagger's views unfortunately have some
merit. The USA cannot compete in a global economy like it did since the
end of WWII. Our economic growth was based on internal competition among
companies within the USA, giving rise to artificially high pay and
benefit packages when compared to the rest of the industrialized world.
The rise of countries like China as a major manufacturing country has
changed all that.

Expecting USA based companies to invest in manufacturing facilities in
the USA is a fairy tale. Isn't going to happen as long as they have to
compete with the manufacturing costs overseas. Demands that "Big
Corporations" pay their fair share of taxes sounds good and is justified
but collection of those taxes is a pimple on an elephants ass compared
to the revenues required to pay USA debt, let alone finance "make work"
programs.
Right now 60 percent of Americans receive more federal money and
benefits than they pay in taxes. 50 percent of Americans don't pay taxes
at all and both those percentage numbers are rising.

We may have no choice but to go back to basics. Entitlements will have
to be scaled back as will defense spending, foreign aid and all other
federal spending programs. Families will have to go back to taking care
of each other and pooling resources. Many in Europe and Asia have been
doing that for years.

When the Chinese worker begins to realize that he/she is working for a
fraction of the compensation paid elsewhere in the world and begins to
revolt things may start to change. As it does, an American worker who
used to receive the equivalent of $50 to $90 per hour in pay and
benefits is going to have to adjust to living on half of that. The $300K
house he/she lives in is going to be worth $150K .

Sorry to sound so dismal, but that's how I see it.

Eisboch







What we need is a restructuring of society here so that instead of
"semi-socialistic" we move all the way towards modern European
socialism. Most modern European socialist countries are doing ok, and
their average citizens are doing better than Americans. We have
half-assed socialism here and it doesn't work.

You can move there any time you want, provided you don't have a criminal
past and are not a welfare freeloader.

I have ived in UK and Norway, great places o visit and even work for a
short time while seeing the sights to get some Europe experience.

But be damned if I would want to live there without being filthy rich or
in the insider connected circle.

Funny you like their system, in there system you would be working right
now. They don't have welfare, they have workfare. Most people don't
travel much, can't afford it.
--
Seems like paying your bills with real money is no longer the accepted
behavior in USA. Perhaps that is the problem and not the the solution.

On 05/08/2011 8:18 AM, X - Man wrote:
On 8/5/11 10:11 AM, Eisboch wrote:

"X - Man" wrote in message
...

What we need is a restructuring of society here so that instead of
"semi-socialistic" we move all the way towards modern European
socialism. Most modern European socialist countries are doing ok, and
their average citizens are doing better than Americans. We have
half-assed socialism here and it doesn't work.


Impossible for two or three generations, even if desireable (which I
don't think it is).

Eisboch

For the vast majority of Americans, modern European socialism will
deliver a higher quality of life than corporatism does for them now.
But that's only one aspect of society we need to change.

Let's be real here. Since the advent of unbridled greed and
multinationalism, capitalism is a failure for a growing majority of
Americans. If we don't want a violent revolution, we'll need to modify
and restructure our society. Otherwise, it'll be heads on pikes.

Bull****.


--
Seems like paying your bills with real money is no longer the accepted
behavior in USA. Perhaps that is the problem and not the the solution.

In article om, "not a
says...

On 8/5/2011 8:46 AM, X - Man wrote:
On 8/5/11 8:44 AM, BeachBum wrote:
On 8/5/2011 8:27 AM, X - Man wrote:
On 8/5/11 8:12 AM, BeachBum wrote:
Why? To fit her brain, of course.

These are her last 7 well *reasoned* posts.

You right-wing circle jerkers wouldn't know "well-reasoned" from
"well-seasoned." You and several of your fellow low IQ righties don't
have the brain power to discern what is well-reasoned and what isn't.
Most of you barely got out of high school. You, Ingersoll, Canuckles,
your buddy the ID spoofer, et cetera, are the best argument against
social promotions.



I looked up asshole in Funk and Wagnalls and found a picture of you.
Isn't that funny?


You're lucky the navy had such low standards when you went in...without
that employer of last resort, you would have had to support yourself by
being a squeegee boy at a busy intersection.


You're sick.

Yes, I am. I suffer from several mental illnesses. One of the more
pronounced ones is narcissism.

In article m, "not a
says...

On 8/5/2011 10:18 AM, X - Man wrote:
On 8/5/11 10:11 AM, Eisboch wrote:

"X - Man" wrote in message
...

What we need is a restructuring of society here so that instead of
"semi-socialistic" we move all the way towards modern European
socialism. Most modern European socialist countries are doing ok, and
their average citizens are doing better than Americans. We have
half-assed socialism here and it doesn't work.


Impossible for two or three generations, even if desireable (which I
don't think it is).

Eisboch

For the vast majority of Americans, modern European socialism will
deliver a higher quality of life than corporatism does for them now.
But that's only one aspect of society we need to change.

Let's be real here. Since the advent of unbridled greed and
multinationalism, capitalism is a failure for a growing majority of
Americans. If we don't want a violent revolution, we'll need to modify
and restructure our society. Otherwise, it'll be heads on pikes.



You have a house full of guns Harry. You're ready.

You're damned right! I'm such a coward. I come here and call everyone
names, and insult them, then when they retaliate, I **** my pants and
call the cops.

On 8/5/2011 10:29 AM, I am Tosk wrote:
On 8/5/2011 9:59 AM, BeachBum wrote:
On 8/5/2011 9:42 AM, I am Tosk wrote:
On 8/5/2011 8:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X - Man" wrote in message ...


You right-wing circle jerkers wouldn't know "well-reasoned" from
"well-seasoned." You and several of your fellow low IQ righties don't
have the brain power to discern what is well-reasoned and what isn't.
Most of you barely got out of high school. You, Ingersoll, Canuckles,
your buddy the ID spoofer, et cetera, are the best argument against
social promotions.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Insults aside, there aren't any Ivy League college grads running around
with much of a clue about what to do either, including our wonderful
"leaders" in Congress.

Sometimes common sense serves better than college courses/degrees on
economics, especially when all the traditional rules have changed.

Hate to say it, but there is no simple solution. The revised cry for
"Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" in DC are meaningless. There aren't any.
Any jobs created will be federally funded or subsidized "make work"
programs but there's no money to pay for them.

The real problem is not being addressed. The real solutions are not
very
popular to many. Some of the TeaBagger's views unfortunately have some
merit. The USA cannot compete in a global economy like it did since the
end of WWII. Our economic growth was based on internal competition
among
companies within the USA, giving rise to artificially high pay and
benefit packages when compared to the rest of the industrialized world.
The rise of countries like China as a major manufacturing country has
changed all that.

Expecting USA based companies to invest in manufacturing facilities in
the USA is a fairy tale. Isn't going to happen as long as they have to
compete with the manufacturing costs overseas. Demands that "Big
Corporations" pay their fair share of taxes sounds good and is
justified
but collection of those taxes is a pimple on an elephants ass compared
to the revenues required to pay USA debt, let alone finance "make work"
programs.
Right now 60 percent of Americans receive more federal money and
benefits than they pay in taxes. 50 percent of Americans don't pay
taxes
at all and both those percentage numbers are rising.

We may have no choice but to go back to basics. Entitlements will have
to be scaled back as will defense spending, foreign aid and all other
federal spending programs. Families will have to go back to taking care
of each other and pooling resources. Many in Europe and Asia have been
doing that for years.

When the Chinese worker begins to realize that he/she is working for a
fraction of the compensation paid elsewhere in the world and begins to
revolt things may start to change. As it does, an American worker who
used to receive the equivalent of $50 to $90 per hour in pay and
benefits is going to have to adjust to living on half of that. The
$300K
house he/she lives in is going to be worth $150K .

Sorry to sound so dismal, but that's how I see it.

Eisboch





You got it just about right. Sometimes I think the solution would be for
the congress critters to go to a grocery with their spouse or whoever
has been doing the shopping for the family (at least till they hit
washington and got handmaids to do their living for them). Gas is
double, milk is double, meat is double... Used to get gas for 2 bucks,
now it's 4, milk was 2, now it's 4 everywhere, beef was $1.79 lb,
average, now it's 4 dollars a pound, chicken (boneless breast) was on
sale for 1.29 a pound, now it's on sale for 2.39 and regularly priced at
about 3-4... I bought shorts the other day, 25 dollars, last year I
bought the exact same pair, at the same store (Wallyworld), 15
dollars...

Nobody is racing, and fortunately I don't see Harry's garbage so I can
mention this... An average race weekend was 350 - 500 dollars for tent
campers like ourselves, 1000 for mobile home owners. We are getting
begged by each and every org locally to come race, but with life in
general costing us about 200 dollars a week more than it did just two
years ago, we and about 65% of all the other racers in our divisions
just can't afford it.

Granted, we are small fish in a big ocean. Going racing this weekend for
only the third time this season, a local track, we can do a day race if
we wake at 4 am and drive in, brown bag lunch, make ice all week in
prep, refill water bottles with crystal light or similar... for about 90
dollars with gas and gate fees, the economy is killing our sport and we
come with 8 foot Jeep towing an 8 foot trailer...

You have an expensive hobby. We just booked 3 camping nights at Disney
and 1 day theme park tickets for $425. And that's for a hard sided
camper with wheels.

Hey, I just reread your post, that's not too far off. Now if you figure
the logistics like food, ice, gas, etc.... Surely you get right up there
around a grand or more, right??


Not quite. Maybe one fancy dinner out and a couple of lunches at most.
I cook most of the meals. Gas is insignificant. We get a whopping 7 MPG.

On 8/5/2011 10:57 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 05/08/2011 8:18 AM, X - Man wrote:
On 8/5/11 10:11 AM, Eisboch wrote:

"X - Man" wrote in message
...

What we need is a restructuring of society here so that instead of
"semi-socialistic" we move all the way towards modern European
socialism. Most modern European socialist countries are doing ok, and
their average citizens are doing better than Americans. We have
half-assed socialism here and it doesn't work.


Impossible for two or three generations, even if desireable (which I
don't think it is).

Eisboch

For the vast majority of Americans, modern European socialism will
deliver a higher quality of life than corporatism does for them now.
But that's only one aspect of society we need to change.

Let's be real here. Since the advent of unbridled greed and
multinationalism, capitalism is a failure for a growing majority of
Americans. If we don't want a violent revolution, we'll need to modify
and restructure our society. Otherwise, it'll be heads on pikes.

Bull****.


That's right. He acknowledged he is fresh out of pikes.

On 8/5/2011 11:26 AM, BeachBum wrote:
On 8/5/2011 10:29 AM, I am Tosk wrote:
On 8/5/2011 9:59 AM, BeachBum wrote:
On 8/5/2011 9:42 AM, I am Tosk wrote:
On 8/5/2011 8:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X - Man" wrote in message ...


You right-wing circle jerkers wouldn't know "well-reasoned" from
"well-seasoned." You and several of your fellow low IQ righties don't
have the brain power to discern what is well-reasoned and what isn't.
Most of you barely got out of high school. You, Ingersoll, Canuckles,
your buddy the ID spoofer, et cetera, are the best argument against
social promotions.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Insults aside, there aren't any Ivy League college grads running
around
with much of a clue about what to do either, including our wonderful
"leaders" in Congress.

Sometimes common sense serves better than college courses/degrees on
economics, especially when all the traditional rules have changed.

Hate to say it, but there is no simple solution. The revised cry for
"Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" in DC are meaningless. There aren't any.
Any jobs created will be federally funded or subsidized "make work"
programs but there's no money to pay for them.

The real problem is not being addressed. The real solutions are not
very
popular to many. Some of the TeaBagger's views unfortunately have some
merit. The USA cannot compete in a global economy like it did since
the
end of WWII. Our economic growth was based on internal competition
among
companies within the USA, giving rise to artificially high pay and
benefit packages when compared to the rest of the industrialized
world.
The rise of countries like China as a major manufacturing country has
changed all that.

Expecting USA based companies to invest in manufacturing facilities in
the USA is a fairy tale. Isn't going to happen as long as they have to
compete with the manufacturing costs overseas. Demands that "Big
Corporations" pay their fair share of taxes sounds good and is
justified
but collection of those taxes is a pimple on an elephants ass compared
to the revenues required to pay USA debt, let alone finance "make
work"
programs.
Right now 60 percent of Americans receive more federal money and
benefits than they pay in taxes. 50 percent of Americans don't pay
taxes
at all and both those percentage numbers are rising.

We may have no choice but to go back to basics. Entitlements will have
to be scaled back as will defense spending, foreign aid and all other
federal spending programs. Families will have to go back to taking
care
of each other and pooling resources. Many in Europe and Asia have been
doing that for years.

When the Chinese worker begins to realize that he/she is working for a
fraction of the compensation paid elsewhere in the world and begins to
revolt things may start to change. As it does, an American worker who
used to receive the equivalent of $50 to $90 per hour in pay and
benefits is going to have to adjust to living on half of that. The
$300K
house he/she lives in is going to be worth $150K .

Sorry to sound so dismal, but that's how I see it.

Eisboch





You got it just about right. Sometimes I think the solution would be
for
the congress critters to go to a grocery with their spouse or whoever
has been doing the shopping for the family (at least till they hit
washington and got handmaids to do their living for them). Gas is
double, milk is double, meat is double... Used to get gas for 2 bucks,
now it's 4, milk was 2, now it's 4 everywhere, beef was $1.79 lb,
average, now it's 4 dollars a pound, chicken (boneless breast) was on
sale for 1.29 a pound, now it's on sale for 2.39 and regularly
priced at
about 3-4... I bought shorts the other day, 25 dollars, last year I
bought the exact same pair, at the same store (Wallyworld), 15
dollars...

Nobody is racing, and fortunately I don't see Harry's garbage so I can
mention this... An average race weekend was 350 - 500 dollars for tent
campers like ourselves, 1000 for mobile home owners. We are getting
begged by each and every org locally to come race, but with life in
general costing us about 200 dollars a week more than it did just two
years ago, we and about 65% of all the other racers in our divisions
just can't afford it.

Granted, we are small fish in a big ocean. Going racing this weekend
for
only the third time this season, a local track, we can do a day race if
we wake at 4 am and drive in, brown bag lunch, make ice all week in
prep, refill water bottles with crystal light or similar... for
about 90
dollars with gas and gate fees, the economy is killing our sport and we
come with 8 foot Jeep towing an 8 foot trailer...

You have an expensive hobby. We just booked 3 camping nights at Disney
and 1 day theme park tickets for $425. And that's for a hard sided
camper with wheels.

Hey, I just reread your post, that's not too far off. Now if you figure
the logistics like food, ice, gas, etc.... Surely you get right up there
around a grand or more, right??


Not quite. Maybe one fancy dinner out and a couple of lunches at most. I
cook most of the meals. Gas is insignificant. We get a whopping 7 MPG.
Yup, that's how we have always been. Even when I had a bunch of boats,
we would always brown bag, and make it cheap fun.. But a lot of it. Say
hi to the Mouse for me, last time we were there Melissa tackled him

On 8/5/11 12:05 PM, I am Tosk wrote:
But a lot of it. Say
hi to the Mouse for me, last time we were there Melissa tackled him


Ahh, the well-behaved Ingersoll clan.

On 8/5/2011 12:08 PM, X - Man wrote:
On 8/5/11 12:05 PM, I am Tosk wrote:
But a lot of it. Say
hi to the Mouse for me, last time we were there Melissa tackled him


Ahh, the well-behaved Ingersoll clan.


Atlas going up in 5 minutes.
BTW FY