On 9-Sep-2003, Charles Pezeshki wrote:

I think Dennis suggested that this might give perspective on the Turners'
vision for a whitewater helmet, and the things they expect it to be able to
hold up to.

I think that several of us have been knocking this advert because it doesn't
qualify the WW view. If they were more clear on the objective and less
sensationalist, I certainly would not have said a thing.

And hey-- justifying Pro-tec helmets- huh?

I don't think too many supporters of Pro-tec have spoken as "extremely" as have
the Turners and Dennis. I think that a lot of the regulars know that they're crap.

BTW - I still don't see why a good hockey helmet wouldn't be fine for WW.
ISTM that hitting the boards at high speed while a 225lb meathead is slamming
his forearm against the back of your head on every shift is a reasonable
approximation of a really, really bad day on the river. Protection all around
and tested for 100mph frozen rubber pucks. Mature technology too - all done
by experts. Reinventing the wheel for WW seems a tad wasteful. Minor mods
to existing hocket helmets seems easy.

Mike

Bill Tuthill wrote:

peteg wrote:

While I sympathize with the parents on their son's death, I have to question
why a paddler with this much experience and paddling very hard runs like the
ones mentioned above (by the way Jacobs Ladder isn't 5++) was wearing a
Protec helmet. Anyone with any experience should know that there are other
helmets on the market which are more suitable for expert kayaking...


Which helmets are these?

Aside from Mike Fentress design with facemask, now unavailable,
I haven't seen any kayaking helmets that impress me a whole lot.
Many of them look like retro Hell's Angel's motorcycling helmets
with limited coverage.

How about the Grateful Heads Dropzone? I have added a faceguard to mine,
and I like the coverage as well as fit. It covers my forehead, the back
of my skull, as well as my ears, even though I have a (large) size of
head that very few white water helmets fit.

Some pictures:
http://wilko.webzone.ru/soc-04.jpg
http://wilko.webzone.ru/soc-a16.jpg
(Don't laugh, it's not wat it seems! :-))




--
Wilko van den Bergh
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

"Michael Daly" wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...
BTW - I still don't see why a good hockey helmet wouldn't be fine for WW.
ISTM that hitting the boards at high speed while a 225lb meathead is
slamming
his forearm against the back of your head on every shift is a reasonable
approximation of a really, really bad day on the river. Protection all
around
and tested for 100mph frozen rubber pucks. Mature technology too - all
done
by experts. Reinventing the wheel for WW seems a tad wasteful. Minor
mods
to existing hocket helmets seems easy.

Speaking as a person who has almost always worn a hockey helmet in
whitewater, I feel somewhat qualified to address this.

The biggest safety issue with hockey helmets is that the foam is not
designed to be in contact with water. I don't think it's a big deal, but
you should check it regularly to ensure it's not degrading.

My experience with hockey helmets has been that they are not assembled in a
water-resistant manner. My first one had cardboard in it--the foam was
glued to the cardboard and the cardboard was attached to the shell. You can
imagine how well that worked. My second (current) one has the foam glued
directly to the shell, but the glue was not waterproof. I have to reinsert
the foam every time I put it on--once it's on my head , the foam can't
shift, so I don't worry about it.

Coverage is excellent, though. Durability is good. I'm pretty confident
that it will protect my noggin in any situation where any whitewater helmet
would work.

-Paul

Hey Wilco

In thst first picture (the one with the itty bitty boat) how do you fold up
your legs to fit in the bow?

Or is that attenuated length a lens distortion. That little boat must have
the shortest turning length known to man.
Should be great for salom races.

Best regards,

John Adams

"Wilko" wrote in message
news:iso7b.36933$tK5.4509384@zonnet-reader-1...

How about the Grateful Heads Dropzone? I have added a faceguard to mine,
and I like the coverage as well as fit. It covers my forehead, the back
of my skull, as well as my ears, even though I have a (large) size of
head that very few white water helmets fit.

Some pictures:
http://wilko.webzone.ru/soc-04.jpg
http://wilko.webzone.ru/soc-a16.jpg
(Don't laugh, it's not wat it seems! :-))




--
Wilko van den Bergh
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

On 9-Sep-2003, "Paul Skoczylas" wrote:

Speaking as a person who has almost always worn a hockey helmet in
whitewater, I feel somewhat qualified to address this.
[useful observations elided...}

So if someone wanted to market a WW helmet, how hard would it be to
get a hockey helmet manufacturer to make it waterproof - different glue,
no water degradable parts etc? These are minor mods.

The biggest safety issue with hockey helmets is that the foam is not
designed to be in contact with water.

The type of foam is an issue, though.

I know someone who worked at a plastics company and they made hockey
helmet liners for a major maker (wouldn't tell me who). He gave me lots of scrap
foam from the manufacture (seconds and off-cuts) and I've used it for padding
my kayaks. It's a good closed cell foam and works fine. A tad softer than
minicell and comfy as anything. No problems with water.

In your case, it would seem the maker would have to switch to another type of
foam and that could involve re-testing to certify. However, that's seems
brand dependent.

My point is that the R&D work's been done and a tough, full-coverage helmet
(degree of face protection optional), that can take lots of knocks already exist.
Starting from scratch is not a good idea.

Mike

John Q Adams wrote:
Hey Wilco

In thst first picture (the one with the itty bitty boat) how do you fold up
your legs to fit in the bow?

Actually John, at about 2,40 m (~8ft), that's my biggest playboat.
This is my new playboat, which is shorter than me (6'8"):

http://wilko.webzone.ru/ftw-1.jpg

Or is that attenuated length a lens distortion. That little boat must have
the shortest turning length known to man.
Should be great for salom races.

It's indeed an optical distortion: with me being so tall, it just looks
like a tiny boat. Compared to the 1,76 m (~5'10") long boat my GF has,
those playboats of mine are both huge:

http://wilko.webzone.ru/soc-a24.jpg

--
Wilko van den Bergh
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

A better picture of my GF's 1,76 m short (Zelezny Igo) kayak:

http://wilko.webzone.ru/klar140.jpg

--
Wilko van den Bergh
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

Michael Daly wrote:

On 9-Sep-2003, "Paul Skoczylas" wrote:

Speaking as a person who has almost always worn a hockey helmet in
whitewater, I feel somewhat qualified to address this.
[useful observations elided...}

So if someone wanted to market a WW helmet, how hard would it be to
get a hockey helmet manufacturer to make it waterproof - different glue,
no water degradable parts etc? These are minor mods.

Funny thing, the ProTec helmet started out as a hockey helmet. Since then, it's been
modified for use in several other sports.

--
Regards

Brian

On 9-Sep-2003, Brian Nystrom wrote:

Funny thing, the ProTec helmet started out as a hockey helmet.

??? - given how crummy they are by comparison to the standard helmets
used by hockey players, that sounds odd. A Protec helmet as sold today
is comparable to a hockey helmet of the '60s, before the hockey standards
were seriously tightened up. I never heard of Protec until I got into paddling
and hockey is practically a religion here in the GWN.

Mike

Michael Daly wrote:

On 9-Sep-2003, Brian Nystrom wrote:

Funny thing, the ProTec helmet started out as a hockey helmet.

??? - given how crummy they are by comparison to the standard helmets
used by hockey players, that sounds odd. A Protec helmet as sold today
is comparable to a hockey helmet of the '60s, before the hockey standards
were seriously tightened up. I never heard of Protec until I got into paddling
and hockey is practically a religion here in the GWN.

I sold 'em when they first came out, which was ~1980. They had hockey and cycling
versions , the only difference being that the hockey helmet had full ear coverage.
The same two variants were probably sold for other activities as well.

--
Regards

Brian