World's Safest Whitewater Helmet
I'm not gonna order anything I can't try first. I got a long haid; round-haid helmets don't fit me worth a damn...and, frankly, IME fit's a lot more important than all them fancy materials. -- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::: Mary Malmros Some days you're the windshield, Other days you're the bug. |
World's Safest Whitewater Helmet
Gil Turner wrote: shamless self-promotion snipped This is apparently nothing but one man's crusade against Pro-Tec. I'm sorry his son was killed, but the fact that he chose a helmet that didn't fit his head properly doesn't make the product defective. I have one that stays on and in place just fine. As Mary points out, people's heads are shaped differently and no single helmet is going to fit everyone perfectly. Apparently, the two college kids who designed this new helmet didn't reseach that aspect very thoroughly. Billing this unavailable product as the "World's Safest Whitewater Helmet" is a bad joke, bordering on disingenuous. The psuedo-official sounding business name "Whitewater Research & Safety Institute, Inc." and the BS about issuing a "Voluntary Recall Demand" is even more misleading. If the product comes to market and it provides good protection for the people it fits, so much the better. However, this marketing strategy isn't fooling anyone and Mr. Turner would do well to consider a different approach. I truly hope Mr. Turner isn't going to become the Tim Ingram of helmets. -- Regards Brian Nystrom President, CEO and Grand Pubah The Institute for Exposing Personal Vendettas Disguised as Official Agencies |
World's Safest Whitewater Helmet
Gil Turner wrote:
Those who will come after him, down the twisting, thundering path of the whitewater will be able to rely on a helmet that will provide far greater protection in this extreme, dangerous, but rapidly growing sport. I'm sorry to hear about your son's death. That's an interesting motive for designing a safer white water helmet, one that I can only applaud. However, I do have some critical notes with this article... I'm not at all impresssed by claims to be the world's best or safest, but I am interested to hear how this claim is substantiated. Has this helmet been compared to other purpose designed white water helmets in comparatice tests? I also find several lines in this article misleading or just plainly wrong. For example, there were at that time (1998) and have been since several purpose designed white water helmets on the market, from a couple of brands all over the world. Granted, some are offering better protection than others, but that's not what the article seems to imply. On top of that I find the general tone of the article annoying. What exactly is so extreme and dangerous about this sport? There are already good products out on the market to protect yourself against blows to the head and body, from a number of companies. That said, there will always be a certain risk involved with paddling whitewater (or any water for that matter). -- Wilko van den Bergh Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations. http://wilko.webzone.ru/ |
World's Safest Whitewater Helmet
Brian Nystrom posted:
snip this marketing strategy isn't fooling anyone and Mr. Turner would do well to consider a different approach. I truly hope Mr. Turner isn't going to become the Tim Ingram of helmets. -- Regards Brian Nystrom President, CEO and Grand Pubah The Institute for Exposing Personal Vendettas Disguised as Official Agencies This may or may not be the worlds safest whitewater helmet, but any helmet that stays in place (which Protec does not), provides protection from impact (which Protec does not), and is designed for whitewater (which Protec is not) is welcome in the paddling community. Mr. Nystrom, I am totally disgusted by your jumping in to troll a thread of this kind. If you had a shred of self respect you would restrain yourself this one time. You would do well to seek professional help for your low self esteem. Get some therapy. Dennis |
World's Safest Whitewater Helmet
Paddlec1 wrote: Brian Nystrom posted: snip this marketing strategy isn't fooling anyone and Mr. Turner would do well to consider a different approach. I truly hope Mr. Turner isn't going to become the Tim Ingram of helmets. -- Regards Brian Nystrom President, CEO and Grand Pubah The Institute for Exposing Personal Vendettas Disguised as Official Agencies This may or may not be the worlds safest whitewater helmet, but any helmet that stays in place (which Protec does not), Nonsense. It may not fit your head, but it fits mine fine and apparently does so for others here, too. provides protection from impact (which Protec does not), More nonsense. It may not be the most protective helmet on the market, but mine has done the job for many years in several different activities (cycling, climbing, paddling). While it carries a fair number of external scars, the shell is intact and the padding is still resilient. and is designed for whitewater (which Protec is not) Well, you're three for three with the nonsense. The fact that the basic Protec helmet design is adaptable to many uses is a strength, not a vice. is welcome in the paddling community. Sure and I said as much. Mr. Nystrom, I am totally disgusted by your jumping in to troll a thread of this kind. Troll nothing. I call it as I see it and this is a pretty clear call. I truly hope that this turns out to be a useful product, but the marketing approach they've taken is blatantly misleading. If you can't see this, then order one and see what happens. whiney crap snipped Get a grip. -- Regards Brian |
World's Safest Whitewater Helmet
The best helmet would be one with a pair of sponsons....
Ed (ok, ok... I know. I just couldn't resist. grin ) |
World's Safest Whitewater Helmet
Charles Pezeshki wrote: Hi Brian, I knew the group that was paddling with Lucas, and was really saddened to hear about his death five years ago. He died in a rapid that is one of the biggest 'mainstream' Class Vs in the world, and one that I have always carried. It's unfortunate that you're insulting his dad. I'm not insulting anyone. For that matter, I'm not questioning his motives, either. What I am questioning is his approach. His words clearly express a personal vendetta against Protec. I can't say I fully understand his grief or claim that I would feel any differently were I in his position. However, I strongly object to his misleading claim of the "Worlds Safest Whitewater Helmet" and the attempt to pass off a business as some form of "official" safety agency. I've talked in the past about how whitewater helmets need to be improved, but though I do possess the technical ability to do such a project, I haven't. I'm glad to see Gil doing it. If his company ultimately produces a good product, I'm all for it. However, a good product deserves to be marketed honestly on it's merits, not by bitter attacks on a competing product. This kind of approach will ultimately backfire and could prevent his product from saving a life. I'm sure that's not Mr. Turner's intent. Looks to me from the pictures on the website that he's addressed major areas of concern that I have-- notably full protection for the base of the brain that's lacking on almost all of the current crop. Interesting. Research on helmets for other applications has shown that close fitting padding at the lower rear of a helmet causes an increase in broken necks when impacts that cause head rotation occur (ie., frontal impacts or glancing impacts to the top of the helmet...sound familiar?). That's why helmets for other applications are not made that way. A closer fit does not necessarily make a helmet safer. If the helmet itself causes or exacerbates injury, the users could be at greater risk than they would be with a design that seems less protective, but won't contribute to injuries. I really have to question whether designing a whitewater helmet that may actually make it to market is a suitable project for a couple of college kids. I'm getting the impression that they just haven't done all the necessary research. This sounds like a project that should be taken up with the assistance of Snell Labs and other organizations which have researched head injuries in-depth. Again, I'm not questioning their motivation, it just seems like they may have overlooked some critical details. -- Regards Brian |
World's Safest Whitewater Helmet
ospam (Larry Cable) writes:
(Paddlec1) Typed in Message-ID: This may or may not be the worlds safest whitewater helmet, but any helmet that stays in place (which Protec does not), provides protection from impact (which Protec does not), and is designed for whitewater (which Protec is not) is welcome in the paddling community. I have to agree with Brian on this one. While I'm not of the opinion that Protec is the ultimate in head protection, it works OK and has protected many a head from injury, including mine. Mine does fit and it has provided impact protection. Could it be better? Yes, of course it could. Well, Protec's been through a few changes. Current Protec helmets have a two-point strap attachment, but a few years back, that wasn't so. Anecdotally, it seems the change in the strap has made a real difference in how well the helmet stays in place -- and there are still a lot of one-strap Protecs out there. -- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::: Mary Malmros Some days you're the windshield, Other days you're the bug. |
World's Safest Whitewater Helmet
Dave Manby wrote: OK I tried to avoid this one! Thanks for jumping in; your insight is appreciated. I am for my sins the chair of the BCU safety committee and several years ago the committee sent all the helmet on the market to the road research testing lab at Birmingham Uni. OK they usually test motor bike helmets. The guy from the research department came and presented his findings. The Protec helmet was in those days the best of a pretty poor bunch was his summary. In fact he refused to test one as they reckoned the lack of resistance would damage their machine! That's not terribly surprising, considering what they're used to testing. I guess it comes down to what level of protection one expects. If you want motorcycle level protection, you'll have to deal with the same weight and bulk. Realistically, what paddling helmets primarily protect against are cuts, abrasions and contusions. The shock absoption may also reduce concussions. However, they're not going to save someone from a severe impact. That's another gripe I have about Mr. Turner's claims; he presents no evidence that his son's accident was survivable had he been wearing a helmet that protected him better. It seems that a big assumption is being made. Couple of interesting points he made was the very real cocoon effect that wearing a helmet has. You are likely to try and paddle harder / drive faster because of this effect the helmet has. It seems that it's a "chicken or the egg" argument. Helmets are bought for protection during activities where head injury is possible. Would we engage in the activity without a helmet? I use mine primarily for playing in surf and rocks. All I expect of it is to keep me from bleeding and perhaps save me a lump on the head if I whack a rock inadvertently. However, with the forces involved with moving water, I know that it's not going to save my life if I do something stupid or get caught off-guard. And Brian if your helmet bears the scars of previous battles with rocks you should throw it away and buy a new one as it WILL not be as strong as it was. (No matter what it is made of) I appreciate your concern, but the damage is purely superficial. I've never taken any serious whacks with on the helmet. It's a multi impact helmet, anyway. If you crash your motor bike your helmet is toast but you may well not be toast because of it! That's the idea. Motorcycle helmets (and cycling helmets) are sacrificial items. One impact and the helmet is destroyed, but it has done it's job. In the trash it goes. This provides a relatively high level of protection for a given size and weight, but is it practical/acceptable for a sport where multiple impacts can reasonably be expected? I guess that would come down to a personal choice. -- Regards Brian |
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